Turbo cart autopsy

[lorikay13]

Here it is....the long awaited autopsy photo.

This carto has been in constant use since 3/30/10. It has been boiled and refilled. It has also been soaked in alcohol.
As you can see there is some apparent heat damage. Am I still happy with this product....YOU BET!!! I will never buy another "regular" cartomizer. In my opinion, compared with my own experience with regular cartos this product remains far superior in performance. If you are new to cartos I assure you the damage you see here is MUCH less than regular cartos....especially when you consider the length of time it was used. Kudos Ben!
ah yeah....what exactly do I mean by better performance? They taste better for a longer period of time. More value for the money spent. Are they "safer" ? No clue!!! I am not qualified in any way to figure that out or make that statement. (Hi Scott!)

 

[sanfordf]

Thank you for clearing that up! I have been considering getting an adapter for my Tornado and 510s so I could use cartomizers. There are 510 versions but I have stayed away from them.
Some say they burn some say they don't.

 

[lorikay13]

I just recieved my 510 cartomizers today. I won't post it here because Ben doesn't carry them.....YET. But when I have some experience with them and some photos I will start a new thread in the 510 model specific sub-forum.

But here is what I understand of the difference... Turbo cartos that Ben sells have less resistance so they run a little cooler.(higher Ohm rating...Ben says 3.1...user tests say 3.6) The 510's have more resistance so they run a little hotter(lower ohm rating, 2.7)...meaning even hotter than "regular"(3.0-3.1) cartos. In theory that means they (the 510's)would use more juice,faster and burn out sooner. But....at 3.7 volts they should taste...well not better so much as more true. The Turbos do tend to not "activate" the flavors as well. But thats the trade off. anyway....I'll let you know!

or...I may have gotten that all backwards...oh heck....I'm sure someone will let us know.
My personal experience with so-called "premium" cartomizers supports this...they suck up the juice and self destruct. But then I'm probably using them wrong.

 

[Katya]

Sorry, Lori, Scott is not around, I just... couldn't help myself

I love you, you know.

*In the spirit of full disclosure, this is Scott's joke

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[redrhino]

 

[Mak]

LoriKay,

Yea you did get it sort of backwords. Less resistance (hotter) more resistance (less heat and less battery drain).
Or ...
3.6 Ω = cooler running - less battery drain but some think less TH but supposedly Ben's still produce great vapor and TH (have them on order but not sure as how good they are)
2.7 Ω = hotter less resistance more battery drain - things melt with a possible premature failure.

Not knowing the innards of the device - I wonder if the heating coil is larger causing a higher resistance rating but in the process produces more vapor?

LoriKay, being that you have disassembled multiple carts - can you measure the coil length and if at all possible unwind it and measure the wire length and do the same with a standard cart and compare the two? I am curious as how a higher resistance rating can perform better overall?

 

[Drozd]

the heat produced will also affect different flavors differently....some do better at more heat while other delicate flavors less..
So things like tobacco flavors and coffees will do better at higher temps and fruits for example at lower temps...
now when you get into tobaccos that have other flavors in them that's a different animal..the tobacco itself better at higher temp...the undertones better at the lower..

it's interesting to note the span of temperatures that atties get when compared to what peoples favored devices when combined with what flavors they prefer...
cartos themselves tend to be middle of the road where 510 is the hottest running and the 901 the coolest..
so looking at the big picture of hotest to coolest running the breakdown is pretty much
Low Res 510........1.5Ω
joye 510 ............2.3Ω
premium cartos....2.5Ω
510 cartos..........2.7Ω
regular cartos......3.0Ω
Turbo cartos.......3.1Ω
knock off 510......3.2Ω
801...................3.5Ω
901...................3.7Ω
And I suspect the hotter they run the more burning of the filler material you're gonna get

 

[lorikay13]

TO: Cpt. J.L. Picard

FROM: Cmdr W.R.

Sir,

With all respect.....I reject your reality and substitute my own.

W

 

[Gribeau]

For those who didn't know, Riker was totally a mythbuster in a previous life. True story.

 

[lorikay13]

Are you sure? I thought that was Mr Spock.....

anyway....since the Cpt is not on the bridge here is some info posted from a prior carto thread on the resistance issue:

And yes, I like them very much. They're not huge "vapor monsters", but they produce "very good" vapor. Perhaps even better than some of the "premium" offerings that I have sampled. And they produce a very "smooth" vapor, lacking some of the harshness and underflavors that you might get with other cartos. Of course... to some the "smoothness" will also be perceived as a lack of throat hit. I don't look at it that way, because I find the lung/throat hit to be quite nice with my standard liquids.. it's just not harsh.

Since they are ~3+Ω devices, the battery life is quite good and they don't consume massive amounts of liquid. The key to my performance in my opinion is that they are quite efficient. They make the most out of the liquid and wattage without creating waste heat or harshness.

Scottbee

Originally Posted by lorikay13

Just to make sure I understand this.....the efficiency of the cartomizer itself will contribute to the battery life of any battery ? Or were you making a reference to the Nebula battery itself.....I understand their batteries are also a tad bit different although still the same thread pattern as the KR8.

.

Yes.. the actual efficiency of the cartomizer. A cartomizer (or atomizer) takes power from the battery and uses that to convert liquid to vapor via the application of heat. If the device can't feed liquid to the heating element fast enough.. then the power is wasted and you don't get vapor from it. If the heat generated is conducted away to the body of the atomizer/cartomizer (they get hot externally), then that power is wasted and you don't get vapor from it. If the airflow isn't set up correctly, then the heat may be transferred to the incoming air and not the liquid.... then that power is wasted and you don't get vapor from it.

Following my lead here? The efficiency of the cartomizer/atomizer is hugely important.
__________________
Scottbee

Yes, the efficiency does contribute to the battery life of any battery it's connected to. To be more precise, think of it this way. 'Standard' KR8 cartomizers have a resistance of 3Ω. Other premium cartomizers have a lower resistance (some down to ~2.4Ω iirc). This directly affects the current provided by the battery, so if you put one of those premiums on any battery, the battery will drain a bit faster.

Now the 'nebula' or turbo cartos run at a *higher* resistance, somewhere around 3.4Ω. This means that it will ask for less power from the battery (any battery) and you get improved battery life.

jazzguy

if you don't agree with any of this don't shoot me...I'm just the parrot!

 

[Scottbee]

Lorikay and I can't stand each other. And if our animosity towards each other continues to grow.. we'll have to get married.

 

[lorikay13]

 

[miss MiA]

so looking at the big picture of hotest to coolest running the breakdown is pretty much

premium cartos....2.5Ω
regular cartos......3.0Ω
Turbo cartos.......3.1Ω

And I suspect the hotter they run the more burning of the filler material you're gonna get

Oh baby, I love it when you talk this way, instead of me having to hear that 'user-observed/real world' 3.4Ω to 3.6Ω range crap, that bursts my "at least having hundreds of reg cartos on hand already ain't THAT much diff as far as heat/resistance" bubble!!

 

[Drozd]

Oh baby, I love it when you talk this way, instead of me having to hear that 'user-observed/real world' 3.4Ω to 3.6Ω range crap, that bursts my "at least having hundreds of reg cartos on hand already ain't THAT much diff as far as heat/resistance" bubble!!

Well that's the number that Ben gave here:http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...urbo-design-cartomizer-feedback-thread-6.html in post #51 and Scottbee in post #46...
yeah it'll vary up and down a little..

EDIT: havent metered one any of these myself because every time I go to order any they're sold out...

 

[miss MiA]

Well that's the number that Ben gave here:http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...urbo-design-cartomizer-feedback-thread-6.html in post #51 and Scottbee in post #46...

I hereby declare Ben much more technically inclined and savvy than Scottbee, or anyone else who has tested these and come up with a result higher than 3.1Ω.

(Hehe, I totally knew what you meant/what you were referring to Drozd, just continuing with my self-pity spree for being buried in regulars already. )

 

[Drozd]

I hereby declare Ben much more technically inclined and savvy than Scottbee, or anyone else who has tested these and come up with a result higher than 3.1Ω.

(Hehe, I totally knew what you meant/what you were referring to Drozd, just continuing with my self-pity spree for being buried in regulars already. )

Lol you wanna see self pity?.....look what I've been working on to help explain things and help explain batteries and the relationship between Volts, Resistance, Amp draw, and max drain rate when it comes to batteries...
Only about a quarter of the way done....

Bold #'s correlate to that 8-10W so called "sweet spot"

 

[miss MiA]

Wow, intense, and so cool of you to do Drozd! Had to snag a copy already, thanks! Over time you've posted lots of stuff that I've found very interesting and helpful; you is A-OK!

 

[lorikay13]

no...no...no....you all have it all wrong!!! See my post over at the "burned carto" thread....I got it all figured out!

 

[Drozd]

lol you call it cool...I call it pretty geeky and sadistic...Someone had done just a wattage chart but it didn't reflect the low res atty or the premium and turbo carts or the actual 3.1V the standard 510 battery runs at...

The actual goal is to try and illustrate why 95% or so of the batteries we use are actually crap and not fit for purpose and why they die out so quick

And then how to use it along with some easy formula to take a pretty good guestimate of how long a rechargeable battery in a mod will last per charge depending on which atty/carto and which voltage you're using

 

[miss MiA]

The actual goal is to try and illustrate why 95% or so of the batteries we use are actually crap and not fit for purpose and why they die out so quick

...ah yes, I recently bumped into a post where you advised against the yellow Tenergy 3.0V LifePO4s... but decided to put my hands over my ears and go "La la la la la" since I'm already buried in those too... (Not really lol, only about 4-6 of 'em... charger too of course... but haven't been using HV lately anyway. )