Twisted vs. Duals

[rudy4653]

Hey All - So I'm bored during this winter cold snap and in the mood to experiment!
I have a question and would love some insights, experiences etc.
I'm wondering what the differences in flavor, warmth, and vapor production between a dual single coil build, and a twisted single coil build with the same resistance?
I know that both a single dual coil and a twisted single coil will run half the resistance of a single wire coil, so with that said what would be the differences and/or advantages of one over the other? Obviously can't build dual coils on single coil atty so a twisted would be the way to go but let's say with a Nuppin' I could run either. I'm not a power cloud chaser so I'm not even thinking about dual twisted coils yet, baby steps! Currently I'm running 7/8 wrap of 29g around a 16 gauge leur at 1.2 ohms and RxW on my Nuppin' but ready to experiment now. I'm a flavor/smooth/warm MTL guy rather than plume chaser direct lung hitter guy ( except on
another type mod that I can't mention here)!
Looking forward to opinions!
Thanks.

 

[dbrandt01]

I have 2 Odin's up and running on both Reo's. One has standard dual coils 0.7 ohms and 28g kanthal.
The other Odin has 28g single guy twisted. 0.6 ohms.

I'm not a MTL guy, I straight lung inhale. I feel vapor production is more with the dual coils, but the flavor is more with twisted.My airflow is always wide open so I don't get the warmness with the ohms I'm running. I prefer twisted coils any day.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

I use dual twisted almost refuse to use anything but dual twisted to be honest. That's just me. Flavor and vapor is amazing.

edit - I don't think of dual twisted as having to be about cloud chasing. I'm not a cloud chaser. I build to .3-.6 for flavor, usually right around .4, with dual twisted 29 or 30 gauge.

another edit - in thinking about your whole post I strongly recommend giving a single twisted coil a shot. Twist up some of that 29 and go at it.

 

[Equilibrium]

28 ga dual twisted wire coils are all I use in my RM2's and 3's (.5 ohm)..... Love'm

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey All - So I'm bored during this winter cold snap and in the mood to experiment!
I have a question and would love some insights, experiences etc.
I'm wondering what the differences in flavor, warmth, and vapor production between a dual single coil build, and a twisted single coil build with the same resistance?
I know that both a single dual coil and a twisted single coil will run half the resistance of a single wire coil, so with that said what would be the differences and/or advantages of one over the other? Obviously can't build dual coils on single coil atty so a twisted would be the way to go but let's say with a Nuppin' I could run either. I'm not a power cloud chaser so I'm not even thinking about dual twisted coils yet, baby steps! Currently I'm running 7/8 wrap of 29g around a 16 gauge leur at 1.2 ohms and RxW on my Nuppin' but ready to experiment now. I'm a flavor/smooth/warm MTL guy rather than plume chaser direct lung hitter guy ( except on
another type MOD that I can't mention here)!
Looking forward to opinions!
Thanks.

Rudy, howyabeen? Real good question.

Behind the scenes of promoting tension as a tool for beginners my favorite wind for flavor elsewhere has been twisted pair. I vape tanks up to 2.2Ω and drippers down to .22Ω but like you I'm definitely a vapor density chaser. Not happy if I can't have both flavor and plumes. Generally that's usually the compromise single strand moderately low res dual. The middle ground between fat wire density of twisted and fast-firing thin wire tight contact mass of parallels. Problem with all multi-wire is stability. It's extremely hard to get adhesion by any means, torching or tension, with twisted. Miss it and you go hotter (diffuse rather than dense). And almost impossible to hold it together if you do pull it off with parallels. So frustrating with the latter, getting so close and losing it with the first rewick and lead separation, that I gave them up. And unfortunately with twisted to get a reasonable warm up time you have to stay with thin wire, usually above 28 or you give up too much resistance for coverage area. Again more like clouds than density. And my vaping style demands both.

What a conundrum huh? How do you eke out more fast firing, hard hitting coverage area (volume) and get chunky with the wick plus juice flow (density)? In an effort to tame the unbridled airiness of the new Subtank and find some meaningful density there, I dropped this in there, a tensioned twisted-lead parallel microcoil...

Follow the convo there on Subbies CAN go deep and rich! and the listed links.

For those unfamiliar with tension, the above is not a look-alike challenge. It won't work. It was never torched, compressed or wound by hand. Anyone interested in the mechanics of composition and assembly can check the listed links or contact me. I'd be pleased to lend a hand.

And Rudy, if you're interested give me a nudge. One of the very first originals of the premise a twisted center-post (dual combo in single m.c., essentially a quad) still runs today, 6-months in place. I didn't tear it down on its target anniv. Just likin' it too much so I threw another batch of KGD in. Between tension and taught thick leads these things are rock solid.

Good luck all.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Tensioned, twisted coils...^ this dude is talking my game right on, brother!

 

[penguiness]

It's actually only twisted on the legs and looks to be flat ribbon wire. Interesting concept.

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

Yeah, as noted above, there is the third option to consider - a parallel coil (essentially, an untwisted two-strand single coil).

Personally, I find them harder to build than either duals or twisted (once the actual twisting is done), but they're a great way to get .5ohm-ish in a single coil atty (e.g., RM2, Chalice, etc.).

These days (as in "the last 4 days") I'm rocking a set of duals (straight) in a Derringer, a set of dual twisted in a Mephisto, and a single twisted in a Chalice III. The short answer is (for me) is...

* I get more flavour out of twisted, ohm for ohm.
* I get a more intense vape (TH, mostly) out of a set of beefy duals.
* I like the balance of intensity and flavour out of a single twisted when the atty requires single coil (usually I'm really chasing flavour those little guys).

Soooo... if you're a MTL flavour chasin' fool, I'd say go for the single twisted. YMMdefinitelyV.

 

[Henry Etta]

I saw the title of this thread, and thought... dual twisted! that's the answer!

I have 2 nuppins with dual twisted 30g- 8 wraps @ about .6ish ohm for the mini, and 7 wraps at .54 ohms on the grand. I think the dual twisted 30g is my favorite build so far... I had dual twisted 29g for a while (8 wraps @ .46 ohms), but it was just a bit too hot. For single coil, I'd say definitely twisted (29g or 28g), but you can do dual twisted with 30g and get a nice, smooth, flavorful and dense vape.
Also: I realize that I did not actually answer the question...
I was building my Nuppins with either twisted (MM, Tiger wire, or 29g) single coils or dual tensioned micros (27, 28, 29g) around .5ohms, and the biggest difference I noticed was warmth. I didn't realize I liked such a warm vape until I ran the Nuppins with these different builds for a while and kept reaching for the duals, even though the single twisted had just as much flavor and vapor.

 

[JamezC]

I saw the title of this thread, and thought... dual twisted! that's the answer!

I have 2 nuppins with dual twisted 30g- 8 wraps @ about .6ish ohm for the mini, and 7 wraps at .54 ohms on the grand. I think the dual twisted 30g is my favorite build so far... I had dual twisted 29g for a while (8 wraps @ .46 ohms), but it was just a bit too hot. For single coil, I'd say definitely twisted (29g or 28g), but you can do dual twisted with 30g and get a nice, smooth, flavorful and dense vape.

I was using dual twisted 28g, but found that I didn't like the heat-up and cool down time, so I recently tried 5 wraps of twisted 30g at around 0.5 ohms, and so far it's my favorite. It heats up fast, cools down quickly, and the flavor and density is still top-notch.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yeah, as noted above, there is the third option to consider - a parallel coil (essentially, an untwisted two-strand single coil).

Personally, I find them harder to build than either duals or twisted (once the actual twisting is done), but they're a great way to get .5ohm-ish in a single coil atty (e.g., RM2, Chalice, etc.).

These days (as in "the last 4 days") I'm rocking a set of duals (straight) in a Derringer, a set of dual twisted in a Mephisto, and a single twisted in a Chalice III. The short answer is (for me) is...

* I get more flavour out of twisted, ohm for ohm.
* I get a more intense vape (TH, mostly) out of a set of beefy duals.
* I like the balance of intensity and flavour out of a single twisted when the atty requires single coil (usually I'm really chasing flavour those little guys).

Soooo... if you're a MTL flavour chasin' fool, I'd say go for the single twisted. YMMdefinitelyV.

You're exactly correct papa. That's what that is a parallel which as I described is quite difficult to maintain stable. But a lot less fiddle if you don't happen to have a hand drill in your back pocket. It's fused in parallel with the aid of tension and the leads evenly twained. That locks in the tensioned strain.

I agree with i get more quick response accompanied by flavor with this geometry. A cross in performance between the twisted and parallel. What you would like the straight wire to behave like if it had the wire mass and contact surface.

Good luck,.

 

[rudy4653]

Thanks for all the input guys!
So,,, I just finished my first twisted coil build. It was quite easy actually. I used the Danny pen twist method and worked great, nice tight even twists. I did a 9 wrap( I think, may have been ten as I was wrapping until I got close to 1 ohm and remounting) with my 29 gauge wire around a 16 gauge leur came out to .96 ohms, put it on a RM2/Woodville and vaped some Wakonda. All I can say is WOW! I normally vape DIY unflavored but I like to vape some flavored after a nice big dinner with my coffee, kinda like a good after dinner cigar. My take was a smooth, warm, vape full of flavor! I did notice the difference from my standard 7/8 single wire coil running at 1.2 ohms. Going to keep vaping this build to see if I keep liking it or if I"m just excited like a first date before I try on my Nuppin'. My Nuppin/Grand is my all day vape and I love it the way it is right now with my single coil, single wire setup. Going to keep single wire single coil on my little minis and as I'm thinking the 14500 batteries would be working hard with a sub ohm twisted setup.
Again thanks to all that shared your experience.

 

[jifjifjif]

Interesting topic. I am currently running a single twisted 28ga coil, thanks to Danny, that I like very much. As I always do, I twisted the wire and then did 3-4 wraps around the shaft of a Q-Tip, which I find the perfect diameter to run 3mm RXW in. It came in at .55ohms. I am not certain if I prefer this over a single parallel coil (same 28ga). Flavor seems to be a touch better, but I think it takes longer to heat up and as a result, I am getting bigger hits from my parallel coil.

both are killer. I have one RM2 that I drilled a second air hole in to try duals, but so far, it's too airy of a draw. As a strict MTL vaper, I dig the single coil and single air hole best so far.

 

[karmakatie]

Thanks for all the input guys!
So,,, I just finished my first twisted coil build. It was quite easy actually. I used the Danny pen twist method and worked great, nice tight even twists. I did a 9 wrap( I think, may have been ten as I was wrapping until I got close to 1 ohm and remounting) with my 29 gauge wire around a 16 gauge leur came out to .96 ohms, put it on a RM2/Woodville and vaped some Wakonda. All I can say is WOW! I normally vape DIY unflavored but I like to vape some flavored after a nice big dinner with my coffee, kinda like a good after dinner cigar. My take was a smooth, warm, vape full of flavor! I did notice the difference from my standard 7/8 single wire coil running at 1.2 ohms. Going to keep vaping this build to see if I keep liking it or if I"m just excited like a first date before I try on my Nuppin'. My Nuppin/Grand is my all day vape and I love it the way it is right now with my single coil, single wire setup. Going to keep single wire single coil on my little minis and as I'm thinking the 14500 batteries would be working hard with a sub ohm twisted setup.
Again thanks to all that shared your experience.

What is the "Danny pen twist method"......do you have a video or how to somewhere?

 

[rudy4653]

What is the "Danny pen twist method"......do you have a video or how to somewhere?

there is a video in the twisted coil thread by dbrandt01 on page 3 of the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZhFFH69XaE&feature=player_embedded

 

[pennysmalls]

The timing of this thread is just perfect! I just recently tried my first twisted dual coil in one of my Odins using 29 gauge. 5 wraps came out to just over .5 ohm. I really really liked the density and flavor but it was slow going to fire up. I was wondering which gauge I should try for a faster firing, 30 gauge? I'm using a 7/64 mandrel for my 3mm rxw. And Danny's method just makes it all so easy, love it!

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

The timing of this thread is just perfect! I just recently tried my first twisted dual coil in one of my Odins using 29 gauge. 5 wraps came out to just over 5 ohm. I really really liked the density and flavor but it was slow going to fire up. I was wondering which gauge I should try for a faster firing, 30 gauge? I'm using a 7/64 mandrel for my 3mm rxw. And Danny's method just makes it all so easy, love it!

Cool (I assume you mean ".5" ohms).

30 gauge will heat up and cool down faster - you'll just need 2 wraps more or so to get your target resistance. Either that, or go for 1 wrap more and live on the wild side in terms of resistance

 

[pennysmalls]

Thanks Papa I'll try the 30 then. And yep, I meant .5, I shall fix that now.

 

[unsure]

Interesting topic. I am currently running a single twisted 28ga coil, thanks to Danny, that I like very much. As I always do, I twisted the wire and then did 3-4 wraps around the shaft of a Q-Tip, which I find the perfect diameter to run 3mm RXW in. It came in at .55ohms. I am not certain if I prefer this over a single parallel coil (same 28ga). Flavor seems to be a touch better, but I think it takes longer to heat up and as a result, I am getting bigger hits from my parallel coil.

both are killer. I have one RM2 that I drilled a second air hole in to try duals, but so far, it's too airy of a draw. As a strict MTL vaper, I dig the single coil and single air hole best so far.

Single coil for me too. I tried dual coils and prefer a single twisted coil like THESE for flavor. I'm not into big vapor and sub-ohming as are many folks. But hey...to each your own.

 

[karmakatie]

Well I officially rocking my first twisted coil on the RM2!! Now I can finally use up all that 30g wire I have had just sitting for a year. I did a twisted 30g, 8 wraps on 1/16 mandrel and came to .86ohms. I usually use 28g 8wraps on 1/16 mandrel. I think next coil rebuild I will try my 28g twisted and see what if I like it.