U.S. News Article

[Seewhy1]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/risky-business/2009/04/16/possible-e-cigarette-ban.html
Please forgive me if this doesn't work, it's my first time starting a thread and posting a link.

 

[Seewhy1]

And check this out
Kansas City - Fat City - When do anti-smokers go too far?

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

The harm-reduction theory simplified is that anti-smoking advocates should push people towards e-cigarettes and other smokeless products instead of complete withdrawal to limit the threat of diseases to smokers and get rid of second-hand smoke. This has angered made many anti-smoking advocates, who say it's their job to eliminate smoking, not rationalize it.

There - that's it in a nutshell - Nicotine Prohibition.... That's the goal of the Anti-Smoking advocates.

 

[TropicalBob]

Vicks, I like your comments under these news articles (assume that's you).

Actually, it is not nicotine prohibition that is the end goal of everyone. Nicotine is going to gradually become a drug available only from Big Pharma or from heavily taxed and restricted tobacco products. You can read various papers on the Web that outline how this will become reality over the next decade. Law by law, users will be driven from tobacco addiction to Big Pharma products that will sustain nicotine addiction.

It is a huge market, with upwards of $15-billion a year in projected U.S. sales alone. Everything happening now, with the FDA and in Congress, is prelude to a world of tightly controlled, highly profitable nicotine addiction products. It's our future.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Vicks, I like your comments under these news articles (assume that's you).

.

Yup, that's me - guilty as charged...
I couldn't let either article go without some sort of comment - not full of piss and vinegar - just calm rational statements. More flies with honey, etc...

 

[westcoast2]

TropicalBob Noted

Everything happening now, with the FDA and in Congress, is prelude to a world of tightly controlled, highly profitable nicotine addiction products. It's our future.

This maybe the plan and would probably have succeded if nicotine 'addiction' was the same as other addictions. It does seem there are a number of differences otherwise NRT would be more effective.

Just reading here it is becomes obvious that people's interaction with nicotine differs. Some instantly transfer to e-cigs, others continue with tobacco, yet others are able to go to zero nic cartridges while some go the other way. PVs cause such consternation because people do not need to vape nicotine at all.

This diversity is somewhat perplexing. One scenario, as you suggest is highly profitable nicotine products, perhaps a transfer from BigT to BigP or BigP nic and heavily taxed BigT products. This isn't going to be easy. The black market is growing (Ireland recently backed off a tax rise because of this) and NRT products, dispite heavy promotion, are still not always a free choice people make. Strange really if Nicotine is so addictive.

The other strange phenomenon is increasing smoking rates, after a short dip when bans come in. This has been seen in Ireland and the UK.

The future is uncertain and people will make their own chocies. A reading of history suggests that a period of aquiesence will be followed by a change. PVs may be part of that change or maybe not. Whatever happens the continued coercive tactics do not seem to be working as well as they apparently should, if nicotine were like any other addictive drug.

 

[TheKingOfKool]

Vicks, I like your comments under these news articles (assume that's you).

Actually, it is not nicotine prohibition that is the end goal of everyone. Nicotine is going to gradually become a drug available only from Big Pharma or from heavily taxed and restricted tobacco products. You can read various papers on the Web that outline how this will become reality over the next decade. Law by law, users will be driven from tobacco addiction to Big Pharma products that will sustain nicotine addiction.

It is a huge market, with upwards of $15-billion a year in projected U.S. sales alone. Everything happening now, with the FDA and in Congress, is prelude to a world of tightly controlled, highly profitable nicotine addiction products. It's our future.

I'm surprised Big Pharma isn't in on the e-cigarette sales. seeing how there's a huge amount of money they could make off of it, you'd think they would start selling them themselves.

 

[Caesarea]

I'm surprised Big Pharma isn't in on the e-cigarette sales. seeing how there's a huge amount of money they could make off of it, you'd think they would start selling them themselves.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...3329-next-big-thing-perhaps-4.html#post203375

Next sold their nic delivery enterprise in February, but don't know to whom. They have done the research. They are ready.

 

[TropicalBob]

They might be. No one really knows what is going inside the corporate boardrooms of the Big Pharma companies. Surely they can see that inhaling nicotine is the optimal solution for smokers wishing to quit cigarettes. But Big Pharma faces the same hurdles our present devices do: FDA approval of the liquid and drug delivery device. That takes time. Perhaps they are deep into research we know nothing of.

We do know Philip Morris (Altria) has developed a nicotine inhaler called the Aria. It doesn't look like a cigarette, and thus has a better chance of FDA approval. PM could initiate medical device approval at any time.

E-smoking is really still a subcult of nicotine addicts, but clearly the potential is here for it to explode in popularity.

It shouldn't surprise anyone if Big Pharma and Big Tobacco are viewing this future market with interest. There is no reason to jump aboard now. Let the FDA ban these Chinese devices. Then .. move into the void of wailing e-addicts denied their devices.

 

[Klimpt]

FDA quoted in the first article:

"We're concerned about the potential for addiction to and abuse of these products," says FDA spokeswoman Rita Chappelle. "Some people may mistakenly perceive these products to be safer alternatives to conventional tobacco use."

If that isn't among the stupidest ...... things I've ever heard I'm a monkey's uncle, notwithstanding Bob's, erm, mini conspiracy theory, with which I somewhat agreeing.

 

[Caesarea]

FDA quoted in the first article:


If that isn't among the stupidest ...... things I've ever heard I'm a monkey's uncle, notwithstanding Bob's, erm, mini conspiracy theory, with which I somewhat agreeing.

I don't think Bob's theory is a conspiracy theory. Look at the millions Next has poured into their research. They will want to harvest the fruit of it.

 

[Kitabz]

Law by law, users will be driven from tobacco addiction to Big Pharma products that will sustain nicotine addiction.

The only flaw with this argument is what happens when the present day generation dies off? If we follow the argument that traditional tobacco will become weaker (less nicotine), be less available (social restrictions) and be more expensive (taxes), how/why will future generations even start? Without a steady stream of nicotine addicts, big pharma has no consumers.

In many ways the present situation (arguably 10 years ago was better) is ideal because you've got tax revenue, tobacco revenue & NRT revenue all from the same group of people. With further restrictions all of the present day beneficiaries lose as smoking passes into history.

 

[Caesarea]

The only flaw with this argument is what happens when the present day generation dies off? If we follow the argument that traditional tobacco will become weaker (less nicotine), be less available (social restrictions) and be more expensive (taxes), how/why will future generations even start? Without a steady stream of nicotine addicts, big pharma has no consumers.(big snip).

Think of the worldwide picture.

Also think of the many secret consumers who lie or are lied for in order to preserve themselves from stigma.

smoking passes into history.

Might take quite a while....people are still growing tobacco...

 

[Kitabz]

Think of the worldwide picture.

Also think of the many secret consumers who lie or are lied for in order to preserve themselves from stigma.

Might take quite a while....people are still growing tobacco...

Yes, that's rather my point (well not the worldwide bit necessarily).

What I was trying to say (badly) was that the view that tobacco will become increasingly unavailable/unacceptable/unaffordable and that addicts will be driven into the NRT arms of big pharma is NOT LIKELY.

This is because it would ultimately [long term] be the end of revenue for BP, BT & BG (who presently enjoy a symbiotic relationship). Big pharma needs big tobacco to supply the next generation of their consumers. No-one is going to take up chewing Nicorette for the fun of it (unlike smoking).
Big government needs the taxes just 'cos they always do!

 

[Caesarea]

Yes, that's rather my point (well not the worldwide bit necessarily).

What I was trying to say (badly) was that the view that tobacco will become increasingly unavailable/unacceptable/unaffordable and that addicts will be driven into NRT arms of big pharma is NOT LIKELY.

This is because it would ultimately [long term] be the end of revenue for BP, BT & BG (who presently enjoy a symbiotic relationship). Big pharma needs big tobacco to supply the next generation of their consumers. No-one is going to take up chewing Nicorette for the fun of it (unlike smoking).
Big government needs the taxes just 'cos they always do!

I can't see anything to stop BP, BT, BG and BigPsy fusing. Their interests are becoming identical.