EU UK first to embrace tobacco harm reduction

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Momof3

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Maybe I'm reading things wrong and I admit I only read through all but the last few pages of the 1st link, but I'm seeing nothing but more of the same followed by worse. I read it as more laws, taxes, regulations and demonizing on tobacco products and smokers (some of it quite frightening IMO) with bigger push for only NRT products. patches, gum, etc. (but they'll deem it a bit more socially acceptable for NRTs longterm)

Telemarketing leads so they can target smokers at home!!! Wow, I can't even imagine.

One recurring constant is that smoking rates are higher for the poor and they don't understand why the poor are more addicted. Has to be genetic. Can't be that the outrageous taxes are what's contributing to them being poor in the 1st place.

Admitting that nicotine is not the devil incarnate (so long as said nicotine is only aquirred from an approved NRT) is just not a big enough step for me. Like I said, maybe I missed something.
 

Brewster 59

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Maybe I'm reading things wrong and I admit I only read through all but the last few pages of the 1st link, but I'm seeing nothing but more of the same followed by worse. I read it as more laws, taxes, regulations and demonizing on tobacco products and smokers (some of it quite frightening IMO) with bigger push for only NRT products. patches, gum, etc. (but they'll deem it a bit more socially acceptable for NRTs longterm)

Telemarketing leads so they can target smokers at home!!! Wow, I can't even imagine.

One recurring constant is that smoking rates are higher for the poor and they don't understand why the poor are more addicted. Has to be genetic. Can't be that the outrageous taxes are what's contributing to them being poor in the 1st place.

Admitting that nicotine is not the devil incarnate (so long as said nicotine is only aquirred from an approved NRT) is just not a big enough step for me. Like I said, maybe I missed something.

I personally dont see why anyone would be in favor of this, from what I saw the only products that would be allowed would be approved products. What I saw was regulation and excessive taxation on all nic products except what they deem to be nrt. They mention the ecig but say it has not been approved, so until it passes their tests it may just be made illegal so please tell what you saw that I didnt and makes this a good thing? The whole program is aimed at getting people to stop using nic which I have no desire to do.
 

PlanetScribbles

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prof beard

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War on smokers: the backlash | Life and style | The Guardian

An interesting take on it from The Guardian. Could this DoH harm reduction strategy work in our favour maybe?


It "ought to" but the way regulation is planned at the moment e-cigs in the UK will be extinct by 21st June (from indications given by the MHRA to a UK vendor). Read this and the related documents - it will almost certainly kill the entire UK e-cig business and our ability to buy and use the products...

MLXs: Medicines consultation letters : MHRA
 

TheNige

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Thats right prof.....Here are the "Options" that the MHRA are proposeing...



Option 1 [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]- Whether products containing nicotine should be considered by the Agency to be medicinal products by function and, if so, whether all unlicensed NCPs should be removed from the market within 21 days. Currently, MHRA operates a strict practice regarding the period of notice operators are allowed to comply with under the Marketing Authorisation (MA) Regulations following the classification of a product as medicinal. Given that these Regulations do not make explicit provisions for a staged withdrawal from the market of an unlicensed medicinal product, immediate cessation of the sale or supply is usually required by the Agency, with written confirmation of the same within 21 days. [/FONT]
[/FONT]Option 2 [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]– Whether products containing nicotine should be considered by the Agency to be medicinal products by function and, if so, whether a notice should be issued to manufacturers that all marketing must cease by a certain date, e.g. June 2011. After this date, enforcement action would be taken against manufacturers not holding an MA for any such product on the market. This would effectively allow manufacturers a year from the end of public consultation to produce relevant evidence to support an application for an MA, submit it to the MHRA for approval and get the newly licensed products on to the market. [/FONT]
[/FONT]Option 3 – Do Nothing.
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]10. Option 3 warrants no further investigation as it is neither in the public health interest nor commercial interest to leave the current regulation of NCP/NRT untouched. Option 1 is the Government’s preferred option as this is in line with current practice. [/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

PlanetScribbles

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It "ought to" but the way regulation is planned at the moment e-cigs in the UK will be extinct by 21st June (from indications given by the MHRA to a UK vendor). Read this and the related documents - it will almost certainly kill the entire UK e-cig business and our ability to buy and use the products...

MLXs: Medicines consultation letters : MHRA

I sent the article writer, John Harris, the following email ...

I read your Guardian article regarding the UK govt smoking initiative with great interest, and it brought me quite relevently to the issue of electronic cigarettes (or personal vaporisers, as the vaping community feels obliged to call them in order to appease the anti-smoking zealots at the US FDA and the US version of ASH, as well as - increasingly - the MHRA over here in the UK).
I was wondering what your opinion on these devices was, and whether you would consider writing an equally 'fair and balanced' article on them? I am sick of seeing the negative spin portrayed on these devices, the media in fact seems to have daggers out for them even though they are so obviously magnitudes of order safer to use than combustible cigarettes that contain thousands of dangerous chemicals and many, many cancer causing carcinogens.

I stopped smoking in July 2009, having tried (and failed) many times over the past 25 years to quit using conventional NRT products. I have replaced the habit with the much safer habit of using an electronic cigarette, and I feel amazing. I no longer smell of tobacco, I no longer cough and choke every day, I also no longer need to use my salbutamol inhaler. I recently had a case of the flu, and for the first time in 20 years did not have to contend with bronchial problems. I am a new man, and I feel that 'e-cigs' saved my life.

You can imagine my, as well as the many thousands of converts, horror at the prospect of a big business inspired agenda destroying the market for the device by putting them out of the reach of the public by making them prohibitively costly, or in fact impossible) to sell. In the US, even going as far as attempting to ban them!
So, they keep cancer sticks available to all and sundry, but want to ban the one thing that many thousands of people have used to successfully replace their tobacco habit? Ban flavoured cigarettes but conveniently exclude menthol (the biggest selling flavour) from the ban Hmmm, how do you spell 'lobbyists'? How do you spell 'Big pharmaceuticals'? Sorry, i'm being ironic. One might even call it sarcasm. But I feel it is appropriate.

How can a plastic cartridge containing a solution of propylene glycol (regarded by the US FDA as 'generally regarded as safe'), and/or aqueous glycerin, plus no more than 24mg nicotine, with water based flavouring added for taste, be more dangerous than the very same products, plus thousands more chemicals and carcinogens, burned and it's toxic smoke by-product inhaled? The vapour produced has no effect as a 'second hand' product like tobacco smoke has.

Sorry, I was rattling on and I don't want to do all your research for you lol I'm sure that you are more than able to do research that is relevant to the story. Research that is fair and just to the product, and is not biased by big business interests.

I will leave it at that and await your response with anticipation. Again, thanks for the interesting read in the Guardian.
I truly hope you see a public interest angle to this story and find out more about the positive effect the e-cig is having all over the globe.

Let's see what the response is ... :)
 

deewal

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Don't just sign the online petition, fill in the Response Form for MLX 364
here MLXs: Medicines consultation letters : MHRA

Don't just fill your name but also write you think about it and how Vaping has helped you.
Then send the same link to everyone you know and get them to fill the response form as well. Get your Doctor involved if possible (mine is furious that he has had no Official Notification about this and had to hear about it from me ! ) So let them know your Views. That's what the online response form is there for but you would not know about it unless your where particularly looking for it.

Starlight it's here UK first to embrace tobacco harm reduction

googled "Maybe we should find out where the main political parties stand on this..and vote accordingly."......... or threaten not to vote for them if they are won't support us.
You may wan't to download the pdf that LacyUnderall has supplied (thank you Lacy) to show your MP and others where this BS is coming from.
http://www.e-cig.org/pdfs/pml_submission_to_dh_consultation_on_future_of_tobacco_control.pdf
I really would like to know where our UK Suppliers are doing about this as i have yet to see a response from any of them here on ECF.
An e-mail to everyone of their Customers asking them to fill in the Response Form for MLX 364 would be a start.
I have very little faith in Online Petitions to the Prime Minister because he does'nt read them anyway. The Labour Party are fighting for their Survival at the moment.
Peter Mandelson the Business Secretary might be the person to write to if we can afford enough money for his "expenses" or a nice big boy to play with. (that was a joke Peter if you read this).
I would also like to here Bill Godshall's thoughts on this.

The threat is in the Febuary \Drug Safety Update February 2010 - Nicotine replacement therapy and harm reduction_3.pdf

PlanetScribbles Write the same as you wrote to John Harris in the Response Form for MLX 364 Starting from "I stopped smoking in July 2009"

That is the type of response people should send to make sure the Passion comes across.
 

Bill Godshall

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deewal wrote:
"An e-mail to everyone of their Customers asking them to fill in the Response Form for MLX 364 would be a start.
I have very little faith in Online Petitions to the Prime Minister because he does'nt read them anyway."

I totally agree. A thousand individually submitted comments from e-cigarette users is far far more impactful than a petition with a thousand names.

Since May 4th is the deadline for comments to be submitted to MHRA, there are three more months for folks to submit comments.

I haven't evaluated the MHRA documents yet, and it would be helpful if someone from the UK could explain the roles, responsibilities and interactions between the NHS, MHRA, NICE etc.
 
In an historic first for public health, the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) of the UK's National Health Service overwhelmingly approved tobacco harm reduction as a key component in England's ten year plan to reduce cigarette smoking by half.

Not really, this is pretty terrible misreporting.

Hi forum, I caught on to this thread from Chris Snowdon's blog and thought I'd come here to clarify, because the NICE story is definitely being misrepresented by Bill here.

Bill, what happened was the NICE citizen's council were supportive of a harm reduction policy. This is a collection of 30-odd 'guys in the street' that NICE uses as a sounding board to inform its 'official' guidance.

The citizens council sits down, hears both sides of the argument from arranged speakers, talks about it, possibly votes and their collective opinions are written up as a report.

The citizen's council stuff goes towards the official position, but is a long, long, long way from being it. The official position could go totally the opposite way to the council's perspective, as it has in the past. It hasn't been written yet.

So, no matter how you feel about e-cig regulation, it's best to be honest and realistic. What happened was 30 normal people were rightly convinced of the arguments in favour of harm reduction. NICE did not 'overwhelmingly approve' harm reduction as a strategy, as great as that would be, and to report it as such is misinformation.

Also, the report you link to 'A smokefree future' is the governments new tobacco strategy by the DoH, not the report to do with the NICE guidance, which makes me think you've got your wires totally crossed here.
 
... and it would be helpful if someone from the UK could explain the roles, responsibilities and interactions between the NHS, MHRA, NICE etc.

Doh, no edit function to edit previous post. I just read this part, which is probably why you are getting confused with this story. I can expand at a later date if you want, but briefly:

NHS:
Term for all of the publicly funded healthcare system in Great Britain, free at the point of care.

NICE: Independent, but publicly funded body that reviews the scientific evidence on efficacy and cost of healthcare interventions and makes recommendations about what/how the NHS should provide it. Very influential on actual practice within the NHS. NICE is not just the citizen's council.

MHRA: The Government agency that regulates medicines and pharmaceutical products in Great Britain by ensuring a) they work and b) they are acceptably safe.

Apologies for consecutive posts.
 

beingbekah

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I've never shopped with TW. I browsed their store and found the advertising to be in questionable taste and the prices to be higher than those of other retailers, so I looked elsewhere. I realize that they're based in the UK, so they are dealing with a different legal system, a different customer base, and different legal and social obstacles. Like others, my main concern is how the claims made by TW, and the decisions made by British health organizations, could impact the legal status of ecigs in the US. The US legal system has a long history of taking its cues from other governments... If ecigs are classified as medical devices in the UK, it would bolster the claims of BP and the FDA that they should be so classified here as well.

When I first started vaping, I, like many others, called my devices "personal vaporizers" and "nicotine inhalers" to distinguish them from traditional cigarettes. Now I wonder if that was wise. Sure, I don't want the social stigma of smoking attached to ecigs, but I'd prefer that they were as available as analogs, whatever the social consequences might be, rather than require a presciption to buy.

In this way, I believe that TW has made some choices that might very well negatively affect us all. I don't think bashing them is productive or appropriate at this point, but perhaps this can serve as a warning to other vendors. Before you start making any claims about your product, it would behoove you to consider, not only how these statements may bolster your sales, but how they might affect the legal status of electronic smoking devices. As much as most of us cringe at Smoking Everywhere's marketing tactics, we should remember that it was those very tactics that likely swayed Judge Leon in his ruling and opinion in January. Legally, at least, we should be treating PV's (there I go again... old habits die hard) as recreational devices, not intended to treat, cure, or diagnose any disease (i.e. nicotine addiction).
 

deewal

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Thatdamncat

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I don't live in the UK, but the banning of e-juice is BS. Here is my post to the MHRA:
Smokers are told to quit smoking constantly. Most smokers enjoy the sensation or addiction too much to ever quit through traditional methods. The e-cigarette is a tool that has already helped thousands of people to enjoy nicotine in an adult fashion without the disease causing carcinogens found in tobacco. The ban of e-cigarettes will take away from many the only means they have ever had to quit smoking, and drive them back to traditional tobacco products. This device should be accepted and promoted for what it is: a tool that has the potential to prevent millions of tobacco-related deaths.
 

Vocalek

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Definitely read through their document. If you don't want to do that, at least write and tell them how using e-cigarettes has affected your tobacco smoking and your health.

You can email your comments to
Amanda.bryan@mhra.gsi.gov.uk

Use this as the Subject line: CONSULTATION LETTER MLX 364


To: Amanda Bryan
MHRA
Room 14-212, Market Towers
1 Nine Elms Lane
LONDON SW8 5NQ

From:
[My name & Address]

CONSULTATION LETTER MLX 364: THE REGULATION OF NICOTINE CONTAINING PRODUCTS

MY STORY: I am 64 years old. I smoked for 45 of those years. Products and methods that I used over the years in unsuccessful quitting attempts include FDA-approved nicotine patches, gum, lozenges, and nasal inhaler; Bupropion; American Lung Association smoking cessation class; Nicotine Anonymous; and hypnosis. The problem underlying these multiple failures is the fact that nicotine abstinence triggers memory, attention, and mood impairments that persist until I resume taking in adequate amounts of nicotine. Obviously, medicinal nicotine provides inadequate amounts.

I used to lie in bed at night, being kept awake by my wheezing and pray that God would send me something that would allow me to stop smoking without forcing me to sacrifice my cognitive and emotional health. E-cigarettes were the answer to that prayer.

On March 27, 2009 I began using an electronic cigarette and stopped inhaling the thousands of toxins and carcinogens in tobacco smoke. The wheezing is gone. I no longer cough up a nasty chunk of phlegm in the morning. I can laugh out loud without triggering a coughing jag. My BP is down and so is my cholesterol.

Tell me please, why do you want to “fix” this situation for me? Why do you want to “protect” e-cigarette users by forcing them to resume tobacco smoking? Why do you want to “protect” continuing smokers from the most effective quitting method the world has ever seen?

My comments on the proposals in MLX 364 are below.

GIGO (GARBAGE IN = GARBAGE OUT): Annex A uses the least accurate and least reliable sources of information on e-cigarette safety and efficacy. As a result, the Conclusions reached are dangerously erroneous.

TOXICOLOGY: A toxicology report that fails to include a quantitative analysis (i.e., FDA’s report) is unforgivably unprofessional. You can find a collection of toxicology reports on several different brands of e-cigarettes and e-cigarette liquid here:
http://www.casaa.org/resources/lab.asp

All of these reports, conducted by professional laboratories, specify the quantities of substances identified. One report compares the quantity of TSNAs in the e-cigarette liquid (8 ng/g) to the quantity in approved nicotine replacement products (8 ng/g). http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

Note that later reports reveal that very little of the barely-detectable amounts of toxins found in the liquid form make it into the vapor. So much for the terrible danger that e-cigarette users face from being poisoned.

Now, MHRA needs to go one step farther: Compare these substances and quantities with the substances and quantities delivered by the smoke from a pack of tobacco cigarettes.

SAFETY: In July, the FDA invited the public to submit reports on adverse events due to using electronic cigarettes to the MedWatch program. Given the fact that no reports have been presented as evidence in the ongoing court case, we must conclude that there have been no serious problems experienced by e-cigarette users in the U.S. How many reports of serious problems have been reported to authorities over the three years that e-cigarettes have been used in the UK?

HEALTH EFFECTS: Users of e-cigarettes are reporting increased lung capacity, less need for asthma medications, disappearance of wheezing and coughing, improved energy, improved sense of smell, lower blood pressure and cholesterol numbers. Read the comments in these two examples of testimonials:
· Over 13,000 people signed: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available

· User Success Stories: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-success-stories/

EFFECTIVE AS SMOKING REPLACEMENT: Surveys and polls of actual consumers consistently show that approximately 80% of regular users of e-cigarette have successfully substituted the e-cigarette for all of their tobacco cigarettes. Here are two examples:

· University of Alberta survey: http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf

· E-Cigarette Success Poll: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/6470-e-cig-success-rate.html

Thousands and thousands of people who switched from tobacco cigarettes to inhaling vaporized nicotine from an electronic cigarette report that they tried and failed to quit with approved medicinal products. Not surprising, when you know that the quitting rate with medicinal nicotine is only about 10%. Approving medicinal nicotine for longer term use is not enough. The dosage is too low for most users to achieve initial cessation, much less maintain long-term cessation.

ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION: The conjecture that users of e-cigarettes might fail to quit due to getting sub-therapeutic doses of nicotine is laughable. The strength of the e-cigarette product is that, similar to smoking tobacco cigarettes, it allows the users to control their own nicotine intake. The greatest weakness of medicinal products is that the dosage is too low.

DO THE RIGHT THING: If you don’t believe any of the above resources, conduct your own research. Hire a lab you trust and conduct toxicology tests. Ask e-cigarette vendors to supply you with contact information for their customers. Ask consumers how using an e-cigarette has affected their smoking. Ask them about the effects on their health.
 
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Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
I don't live in the UK, but the banning of e-juice is BS. Here is my post to the MHRA:
Smokers are told to quit smoking constantly. Most smokers enjoy the sensation or addiction too much to ever quit through traditional methods. The e-cigarette is a tool that has already helped thousands of people to enjoy nicotine in an adult fashion without the disease causing carcinogens found in tobacco. The ban of e-cigarettes will take away from many the only means they have ever had to quit smoking, and drive them back to traditional tobacco products. This device should be accepted and promoted for what it is: a tool that has the potential to prevent millions of tobacco-related deaths.

Well said!
 

Whitbit

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To hifistud- I enjoyed your video and I posted it on my Facebook wall. I have already signed one petition on behalf of the UK and I will do whatever else I can to help. I believe in this, for once... as I am proof that I have absolutely NO desire for analogs anymore. I hope things start turning over for the better. This thing is a MIRACLE!! We just need to get the word out, and recommend it to every smoker we know, they will be hooked.

Thank you, Vocalek for a thorough report! Great links as well. Just proof that they are ignoring the proof. Ironic, huh? My husband has a different theory. He thinks that the government is just mad because they can't tax everything having to do with PV s and they make plenty of money off of analogs. They would be LOSING money and of course the greedy you-know-whats won't have that. He says I should stock up on as much equipment as possible in case of an all out ban. Makes me think a little, really. Because I said goodbye to analogs for the last time today, after smoking my only cigarette of the day made me ILL. I couldn't be happier or feel better. I am going to start helping out wherever I can, signing petitions, writing comments, and tomorrow I am going to use your link to also send a testimony. I believe that this is SO important as a lifesaver to millions.
 
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