Understanding the book of Revelation.

[trukinlady]

I thought it would be interesting to share our opinions on the book of Revelation. I've been studying Revelation, and I find it fascinating! I find if I cross reference it with the other books of the Bible, it deepens my understanding.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Elwin]

Wow.
You're definitely digging into one of the heaviest books in the scriptures, of that there's no doubt.

So many great minds over the years have tried to deal with it over the centuries.

And so much of what we think we know about it has been muddied and muddled.
Some, by no doubt well meaning scholars, that tried to fit The Revelation into their personal experience of the time. Like those that have pointed to historical figures like Nero, Napoleon, and Hitler, and were absolutely certain that those men were the "Beast". (Even the great Sir Issac Newton, arguably the greatest mathematician of all time, felt that he had a handle on The Revelation. His prediction puts the "end times" at around 2020...)

Then with the emergence of the Pre-Tribulational Rapture theory that became popular in the early 1900's, along with the resurgence of that popularity in the late 60's-early 70's by people like Hal Lindsey, and the hundreds of authors that followed - everyone seemed to think that we had this book down pat. It was just a matter timing, but they say that this time, the end is really, really close...

I guess that my biggest problem with all of that is that when it comes to prophecy, it's only seen clearly after the fact.

I mean if you look at the prophecies concerning the Messiah's birth, we see them now and say to ourselves, "Sure! That's so easy to see. It's as plain as day!" And yet the best minds, and most holy men of Israel were flummoxed. Daniel's math predicted His birth down to the exact year 500 years before it happened, and it was still such a mystery to men that many are still waiting for it to happen...


Anyway, what were you asking again? Oh yeah, what are my thoughts on The Revelation?

Heavy.

Because of the fact that John wrote in what appears to be symbolic terms in many instances, it can be a confusing book, to be sure.
I mean, John himself said in so many words, "Here's what I'm seeing. I don't understand it myself. I can only describe it using things I'm familiar with, but it really is bigger, stranger, scarier, and in many ways more wondrous than I've ever imagined. I even managed to confuse either an angel or a resurrected man with God, and was about to worship him when he told me that He wasn't God and would I please not do that! So even I don't understand what I saw. I'm just writing it down." (Elwin's Paraphrase )

So, while I've studied it and continue to do so, I have to use extreme caution not to try fit it into a nice neat little package that fits into my very limited experience.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." II Timothy 3:16, 17

 

[Saintscruiser]

Many people throughout history have thought that their generation was going to be the one experiencing the rapture. They were trying to make the pieces fit, and it was like putting a square peg into a round hole. The key to 'end times' was when Israel became a nation, May 15, 1948. Scripture stated that that generation would not pass away until the beginning of the end......meaning end time prophecy clock started ticking. Next is the falling away from God....father turning against son, daughter against mother, etc. Knowledge would increase.....AND BOY HAS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! You buy a computer and by the time you get it home and hooked up, it's obsolete. Look at cell phones, now. They are hand held computers. Look at how the 3-D and HD televisons have come into homes. I remember when a tv would need a tube replacement. Look at phonographs vs MP3 players. On top of that, look at the increase of evil. 'Men will be lovers of self.' There is very little respect of life anymore. Look at the gang wars. There is no remorse from criminals. Every bit of this was prophesied. Then there are wars, rumors of wars, famines, death.........and this is only the beginning.

One thing about Revelation is that there is a warning at the end of the book. Anyone adding to or taking away from this book is in deep trouble. So people need to be careful. However, there are certain people that I do trust in interpretations and I'm always studying it. Revelation is my favorite Book of the Bible. Matthew is my favorite Gospel. Peter is my favorite disciple. I hate that the Jewish people rejected Jesus as the Messiah, but am so thankful that we were grafted into the vine. Thank You, Jesus!

 

[IanK1968]

I have been wanting to study the book of revelations for 6 years now, but its hard to find a group that wants to study it. I would love to know whats going to happen, the signs, the glory we get to experience once with God.

 

[Saintscruiser]

On TBN, Sunday mornings @ 11:00 a.m., there is a program on called Love Worth Finding. (The website is: Love Worth Finding Ministries with Adrian Rogers: Hal Lindsey has a website as well.) They are re-running Dr. Adrian Roger's, who is now deceased, study on The Book of Revelation. He is one of the few people I will listen to on the subject and even has a book called 'Unveiling the End Times in Our Time.' Awesome book! I would recommend this book to anyone who has an inquiring mind and wants to know the truth. He goes verse by verse. So, if you can't receive the TBN station, get this book and study it, along with your Scriptures. He was one of those people who stated to his flock not to just take his word on it.....research it yourself. Another book and author, whom I trust is Hal Lindsey. He has a program on TBN on Friday nights @ 7:30 p.m. If you can DVR or Tivo the program, if you're unable to watch it, do so and come back to it. He wrote a book called 'There's A New World Coming' that also goes verse by verse. I compare notes from the two books along with studying Scripture on my own to get the full picture. It wasn't long after I was saved, 26 years ago, that The Book of Revelation became most important in my life. I've been studying it for nearly 26 years, and Almighty God is still teaching me new facets about it! Do I have all the answers? NOWHERE CLOSE!!!!!!!!! But prophecy is written throughout the entire Bible about the end times. Pray about interpretation.....that Almighty God will reveal the truth to you, since this book is literal and symbolic together. If you are unable to purchase the book, then maybe your church library has a copy that you can check out! It could be that a public library might have the books. That is where I would start!

 

[trukinlady]

I was reading Revelation this morning, and I wanted to share my thoughts about it.

There has been so much debate about whether Revelation is symbolic or literal. However we choose to interpret it, I think the point being we, as Christians, need to prepare ourselves for the fulfillment of His Word.
For many years there has been much debate on when Jesus will return for His Church. The more I read His Word, the less I believe in pre-tribulation Rapture. This is from my own understanding of His Word.
The Scripture that has convinced me of this is in Revelation Ch 15:1-8

1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God.
3 They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying:

“ Great and marvelous are Your works,
Lord God Almighty!
Just and true are Your ways,
O King of the saints!
4 Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy.
For all nations shall come and worship before You,
For Your judgments have been manifested.”

5 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.
6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands.
7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever.
8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

This leads me to believe that whatever happens before the bowl judgements are not the wrath of God. Thus we, as Christians, will be witness to the happenings before the bowl judgements.

In Revelation Ch 14:14-16, it is my understanding that Jesus comes to earth for His Bride/Church:

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.


I cross referenced these passages with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I'm interested in hearing what CV members think.

 

[blondeambition3]

I was reading Revelation this morning, and I wanted to share my thoughts about it.

There has been so much debate about whether Revelation is symbolic or literal. However we choose to interpret it, I think the point being we, as Christians, need to prepare ourselves for the fulfillment of His Word.
For many years there has been much debate on when Jesus will return for His Church. The more I read His Word, the less I believe in pre-tribulation Rapture. This is from my own understanding of His Word.
The Scripture that has convinced me of this is in Revelation Ch 15:1-8

1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God.
3 They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying:

“ Great and marvelous are Your works,
Lord God Almighty!
Just and true are Your ways,
O King of the saints!
4 Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy.
For all nations shall come and worship before You,
For Your judgments have been manifested.”

5 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.
6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands.
7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever.
8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

This leads me to believe that whatever happens before the bowl judgements are not the wrath of God. Thus we, as Christians, will be witness to the happenings before the bowl judgements.

In Revelation Ch 14:14-16, it is my understanding that Jesus comes to earth for His Bride/Church:

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.


I cross referenced these passages with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I'm interested in hearing what CV members think.

Very 'sound' T.....

 

[trukinlady]

Eve,
Any other thoughts? I'd love to hear what you think!

There are other verses I've read that corroborate the ones I've posted here. I'll post again soon.

 

[blondeambition3]

Eve,
Any other thoughts? I'd love to hear what you think!

There are other verses I've read that corroborate the ones I've posted here. I'll post again soon.

Well, it's complicated T... but the Holy Spirit 'ministers' to me primarily through dreams as the LORD knows the book of Revelation, while it's definitely unfolding as we speak, is still very mysterious to me... (lol) ... with that being said, my dreams give me the impression we are very much in the 'last days'... very much. Based upon my dream 'revelations' if you will, things will happen very suddenly.. and for believers will be AWESOME and painless.

 

[Saintscruiser]

The 'Church' is mentioned nineteen times in the first 3 chapters of the Book of Revelation and isn't mentioned once as being on earth from Chapters 4 through 19. These chapters are the outpouring of God's wrath described in detail. In the 2nd and 3rd chapters, that Jesus says to the churches, and it is repeated 7 times, 'Let he who has an ear, listen.' But in Chapter 13, there is no mention of 'church.'

While true Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit, even now, we hold the dragon at bay. He cannot come on the scene until the One who hinders is taken out of the way. When the Holy Spirit isn't on the earth, like we are now, the p.o.p. can begin his reign of terror. Believe it or not we are powerful when we stand together as one. Even the p.o.p. can't just take over until our Father, our King, our Savior says he can. Why would the Bridegroom pour his wrath, even if it's not of great magnitude, on His Bride.

There are people who believe in a pre-trib rapture, and others who believe in a mid-trib rapture, and even others who believe in post-trib rapture, which is REALLY odd since we all come back with Jesus on horses at the 2nd Coming.

 

[tommy2bad]

I like Revelations, its good strong images speak in a way that makes me see things as themes and meanings. I can the read the OT and get more from it than just bible stories.
Like similar passages in the Psalms, Ezekiel, Zechariah, the Gospels, Revelation is there to encourage us and give us hope and return us to worship the Living God - they aren't meant as timetables for the Horsemen of the Apocalypse or rough guides to the New Jerusalem!

 

[Saintscruiser]

I've said this before and I will say it again.....Jesus said that only the Father knows the day and hour. People who guess make me smile, as, if I was God, I would I intentionally prove them wrong. When Jesus said, "No one knows the day or hour," He meant what He said!!! I just get the biggest 'chiggle!' That's a chuckle and giggle.

 

[trukinlady]

I think the reason I’m so fascinated by Revelation and end times prophecy, is I feel deep inside my spirit these are, indeed, the end of days! I want to be prepared for whatever, whenever, and however things happen.

I don’t presume to think I can figure out the exact timeline, but I’m getting ready for His Word to be accomplished!! Praise God!!!!!!!

 

[blondeambition3]

I think the reason I’m so fascinated by Revelation and end times prophecy, is I feel deep inside my spirit these are, indeed, the end of days! I want to be prepared for whatever, whenever, and however things happen.

I don’t presume to think I can figure out the exact timeline, but I’m getting ready for His Word to be accomplished!! Praise God!!!!!!!

Me also T!

 

[trukinlady]

I found a Christian web site that gives their understanding of the end times in a timeline chart. I think it's interesting, but in His Word, Jesus says in Mark 13:32-33
32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is."

End-Time Events

In His Love,
'T'

 

[Saintscruiser]

I couldn't agree more, Lady T! I have been fascinated with Revelation ever since I got saved. I know this may come as a shock, but contrary to popular belief, I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS! But, what I do know is:

Jesus loves me this I know, For the Bible tells me so,
Little ones to Him belong,
They are weak, but He is strong....
Yes, Jesus loves me, Yes, Jesus loves me,
Yes, Jesus love me, For the Bible tells me so.

Now who can argue with that! Such a sweet song......and I believe it!

 

[trukinlady]

Revelation is a little hard to understand. But it is a vivid portrayal of His Word!

 

[Wickedwench]

Awfully heavy for a vaping forum, but as a militant agnostic, I'll toss in my two cents. I have read the text in King James form.
Putting aside debates on the validity of prophecy and whether the text is prose or poetry, one hardcore reality sticks out: everyone thinks that they are living in the end times. How could we as a species feel that weight for hundreds of years, each generation as sure as the last?
My answer is to look within. If we truly are living on the edge of this cataclysm, then the problem isn't in Jerusalem, its in us.
If you were cursed with a clock showing that you only had a day left alive, what have you left undone? Who did you hurt? Did you make amends? Did you tell those closest how you love them, or did you just assume they knew? Have you redressed your flaws, confessed your sins, gotten "right with God"? There is a peace within that can be of great comfort as the rest of the world seems to spin off into chaos.
Don't fear apocalypse without. That would be in God's hands and he knows what to do. Resolve the apocalypse within.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Awfully heavy for a vaping forum, but as a militant agnostic, I'll toss in my two cents. I have read the text in King James form.
Putting aside debates on the validity of prophecy and whether the text is prose or poetry, one hardcore reality sticks out: everyone thinks that they are living in the end times. How could we as a species feel that weight for hundreds of years, each generation as sure as the last?
My answer is to look within. If we truly are living on the edge of this cataclysm, then the problem isn't in Jerusalem, its in us.
If you were cursed with a clock showing that you only had a day left alive, what have you left undone? Who did you hurt? Did you make amends? Did you tell those closest how you love them, or did you just assume they knew? Have you redressed your flaws, confessed your sins, gotten "right with God"? There is a peace within that can be of great comfort as the rest of the world seems to spin off into chaos.
Don't fear apocalypse without. That would be in God's hands and he knows what to do. Resolve the apocalypse within.

Hi, WW! This is the Christian Forum of E-cig. We have this one little corner of this huge website and we are happy to share our views and our beliefs. It's sort of like Israel. There is this little tiny country surrounded by huge Arab countries and the Arab countries want the little tiny land of Israel. Have you noticed that since Israel became a nation in May of 1948, all of the surrounding countries wanted to blow it off the map? Looking at it, Israel shouldn't be standing at all......but they are. Why? Because she is protected by Almighty God. It is a prophecy that was turned into a fact, and even 64 years later, she is still standing strong. How would you explain that. It is miraculous, to say the least.

Why do you describe yourself as a 'militant' agnostic? I didn't detect that from your post. I want to delve deeper in your post, but am unable to sit here much longer. I will look forward to further discussion at a near future time with you. Nice to meet you!

 

[Southern Gent]

Awfully heavy for a vaping forum, but as a militant agnostic, I'll toss in my two cents. I have read the text in King James form.
Putting aside debates on the validity of prophecy and whether the text is prose or poetry, one hardcore reality sticks out: everyone thinks that they are living in the end times. How could we as a species feel that weight for hundreds of years, each generation as sure as the last?
My answer is to look within. If we truly are living on the edge of this cataclysm, then the problem isn't in Jerusalem, its in us.
If you were cursed with a clock showing that you only had a day left alive, what have you left undone? Who did you hurt? Did you make amends? Did you tell those closest how you love them, or did you just assume they knew? Have you redressed your flaws, confessed your sins, gotten "right with God"? There is a peace within that can be of great comfort as the rest of the world seems to spin off into chaos.
Don't fear apocalypse without. That would be in God's hands and he knows what to do. Resolve the apocalypse within.

Excellent post! Yes, these are the days but not necessarily the last days. Resolving the apocalypse within is the only thing that can be controlled and that's all that matters. The rest simply becomes a non issue because it is out of one's scope of control.