Update: LR atomizers with 510 stock (180mah) batteries...

[Quick1]

I was under the impression that they're protected against over current and short.

 

[NaOH]

Hello,

I'd like to put my experience with the stock 510 battery and LR for the running record. Going on two weeks with stock battery and LR atomizer, no problems yet. Actually today was the first day I used a regular atty on the stock 510 battery and I decided to go for the full discharge. Seemed like I got maybe an additional hour with it. For the quality of vapor and the price of 510 batteries, I'm really only concerned about the possibility of melt down. Generally batteries are designed to blow "the right way" like capacitors, no? Of course that may be downright wrong, and these designs for melting down "the right way" could always fail, but I don't know exactly so I'll shuttup!

 

[Kent C]

I'd just be a little worried that the batteries might asplode (much worse than explode) in my face. Seeing as the amp draw for these things is already a bit above what they were meant to handle (hence the reason batteries don't last all that long compared to their specs) Kicking the draw up to nearly twice that seems like risky business to me.

Dunno...maybe the plastic endcap would blast off and vent that way...but if it holds then the little buggers are basically a tiny pipebomb.

The 'restriction' that is mentioned by most vendors/manufacturers is on mAh - a length of time spec, not on the resultant 'current'. And the only thing that translates to me is that those batts under 440mAh will need to be recharged more often that 'normal', and hence will reduce the whole life of the batt, which for me (and evidently DC2) is not a problem. Li ion batts 'explode' from going below certain voltage parameters which are regulated by the batt itself and double protected by those with a pcb and additionally protected by the charger.

While the ohms of the atty does affect the resultant current/wattage, they wouldn't affect the voltage safety parameters of the battery anymore than heavy constant vaping vs. light puffing would.

 

[Quick1]

While the ohms of the atty does affect the resultant current/wattage, they wouldn't affect the voltage safety parameters of the battery anymore than heavy constant vaping vs. light puffing would.

Ummm, not exactly.

Typically batteries will have a max discharge rate of 2C. Just sort of generally, rule of thumb type of thing. As the capacity (mAh) drops so would the maximum discharge rate (mA). I do not know what the max discharge rate is for the small batteries. I think this is why suppliers do not recommend smaller mAh batteries.

"regular" 510 -- 2.2 ohms @ 4v ==> 1.8 Amps
LR 510 -- 1.8 ohms @ 4v ==> 2.2 Amps

Also, although maybe not a concern, as you use a battery at higher currents close to or over it's max discharge rate you stress it more. So not only will it drain faster but you will reduce it's lifetime number of charge/discharge cycles.

 

[Kent C]

As the capacity (mAh) drops so would the maximum discharge rate (mA). I do not know what the max discharge rate is for the small batteries. I think this is why suppliers do not recommend smaller mAh batteries.

"regular" 510 -- 2.2 ohms @ 4v ==> 1.8 Amps
LR 510 -- 1.8 ohms @ 4v ==> 2.2 Amps

Suppliers should be more specific if that is the case, but thanks for the added info. Maybe someone knows the max discharge rate of oem batts. I'll look into that.

Also, although maybe not a concern, as you use a battery at higher currents close to or over it's max discharge rate you stress it more. So not only will it drain faster but you will reduce it's lifetime number of charge/discharge cycles.

This point, DC2 and I (and a few others, I'm guessing), already figured that into the equation and was willing to make that tradeoff on the whole life of the battery - I have a stash of megas but pretty much vape mods now until the LR attys worked well on the megas (280mAh). I've sold all but a couple of the regular kit batts.

 

[portguy]

Quick and bassnut are right. If you lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas. But sometimes you really don't. Now imagine someone reading this thread and using a non protected battery low mHa. Would you advise or encourage the use of the LR atty? People tend to avoid factory instructions. That is alright if you know the trade off you get. Does not mean that the factory instructions are wrong. Means just that you chose to lay down with the dog and don't care if you catch a flea....

 

[portguy]

Suppliers should be more specific if that is the case, but thanks for the added info. Maybe someone knows the max discharge rate of oem batts. I'll look into that.



This point, DC2 and I (and a few others, I'm guessing), already figured that into the equation and was willing to make that tradeoff on the whole life of the battery - I have a stash of megas but pretty much vape mods now until the LR attys worked well on the megas (280mAh). I've sold all but a couple of the regular kit batts.

Suppliers are specific: They say not to use any battery lower than 440 mHA...some say 600 mHa. Sometimes is better to say STOP instead of saying STOP and stating why. People tend to go: oh...is that the reason why? I don't care!

 

[Kent C]

portguy:Quick and bassnut are right.

And I thanked him for the info.

If you lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas.

That's an appropriate analogy?

But sometimes you really don't. Now imagine someone reading this thread and using a non protected battery low mHa. Would you advise or encourage the use of the LR atty?

No and never had.

People tend to avoid factory instructions.

Yeah, esp. stupid ones on li ion batts where they say to charge them for 8 hours.

That is alright if you know the trade off you get. Does not mean that the factory instructions are wrong. Means just that you chose to lay down with the dog and don't care if you catch a flea....

Whatever.....

 

[Kent C]

portguy:Suppliers are specific: They say not to use any battery lower than 440 mHA...some say 600 mHa. Sometimes is better to say STOP instead of saying STOP and stating why. People tend to go: oh...is that the reason why? I don't care!

Get off your high horse and read what I wrote. The 'suppliers aren't specific' on 'why' - which is to what I was referring if you read it - they should also say why you have to charge an li ion batt for 8 hours - why? because of battery memory? And yeah, they're very specific on the limitation. Somewhere from 440 to 600 lol...and it's mAh not mHA.

 

[Drozd]

Ummm, not exactly.

Typically batteries will have a max discharge rate of 2C. Just sort of generally, rule of thumb type of thing. As the capacity (mAh) drops so would the maximum discharge rate (mA). I do not know what the max discharge rate is for the small batteries. I think this is why suppliers do not recommend smaller mAh batteries.

"regular" 510 -- 2.2 ohms @ 4v ==> 1.8 Amps
LR 510 -- 1.8 ohms @ 4v ==> 2.2 Amps

Also, although maybe not a concern, as you use a battery at higher currents close to or over it's max discharge rate you stress it more. So not only will it drain faster but you will reduce it's lifetime number of charge/discharge cycles.

I'm going to disagree slightly with your figures on discharge rates for Li-Ions.. they're typically 1C unless otherwise stated...
*fire batteries are 1.5C
AW batteries are 2C

no name generics like in the stock batteries..we can assume are 1C

 

[Quick1]

I'm going to disagree slightly with your figures on discharge rates for Li-Ions.. they're typically 1C unless otherwise stated...
*fire batteries are 1.5C
AW batteries are 2C

no name generics like in the stock batteries..we can assume are 1C

I'll go with that. Lower is better for a "rule of thumb" or "typical". Always best to get the manufacturer specs but in lieu of that it's definitely better to be conservative...

That would make it even worse. We'd be drawing about 2x to 3x the max current the batteries are (or might be) rated for. There are a lot of variables. Our usage probably wouldn't be considered "continuous" which is what max current draw figures apply to. Then again it isn't exactly burst usage when you do a dry burn or a 10 sec drag...

I don't know, but I assume that the stock 510/ego/901/KR808/etc batteries are protected?

 

[Kent C]

I'll go with that. Lower is better for a "rule of thumb" or "typical". Always best to get the manufacturer specs but in lieu of that it's definitely better to be conservative...

That would make it even worse. We'd be drawing about 2x to 3x the max current the batteries are (or might be) rated for. There are a lot of variables. Our usage probably wouldn't be considered "continuous" which is what max current draw figures apply to. Then again it isn't exactly burst usage when you do a dry burn or a 10 sec drag...

I don't know, but I assume that the stock 510/ego/901/KR808/etc batteries are protected?

I'm being persuaded. And I checked into it as I said. In fact the LR attys really do so well on the eGo why wasted them on a mega. A vendor friend is thinking along the same line of your "As the capacity (mAh) drops so would the maximum discharge rate (mA)."

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The factory didn't give us an exact reason [what I wanted], but just told us they had test data to support them. I also got some words from other factories that the LR atomizers would make the regular e-cigarette batteries too hot and kill them, they also worried the batteries would explode in this working condition, so they don't suggest customers use LR atomizers.[/FONT]

 

[Drozd]

I'll go with that. Lower is better for a "rule of thumb" or "typical". Always best to get the manufacturer specs but in lieu of that it's definitely better to be conservative...

That would make it even worse. We'd be drawing about 2x to 3x the max current the batteries are (or might be) rated for. There are a lot of variables. Our usage probably wouldn't be considered "continuous" which is what max current draw figures apply to. Then again it isn't exactly burst usage when you do a dry burn or a 10 sec drag...

I don't know, but I assume that the stock 510/ego/901/KR808/etc batteries are protected?

I agree that it would make it much worse...

And I don't believe that the 510 or the eGo are protected...scottbee has made reference to the lack of protection in the eGo (and how shorting an atty will totally blow the battery)...don't know about the KR8 or the others though...

 

[Israfil]

I do believe that basic low voltage/overcharge protection is provided by the internal switch built into the batteries, but I could be horribly wrong. I'm fairly certain that the batteries do not have a heat cutoff in any case.

 

[DC2]

I haven't used this setup in awhile, so I have no additional updates at this time.

Anybody else out there want to add an update?
In other words... bump.

 

[NaOH]

I know battery longevity is the primary concern, but I figured I should chip in that I lost my first LR atty (Joye) on this setup, it lasted 1 month on the dot, so there's +1 towards non-effect on atomizer lifespan