Using like crazy!

[SuperStack]

Indeed, you can't regulate stupidity - not possible. There comes a point where people have to start taking personal responsibility & exercise some common sense after reasonable safe-guards are in place (like child-proof caps & proper labelling etc).

Otherwise almost everything could be justifiably banned if we're always going to cater to the lowest common denominator in the population, at the expense of the majority who use products in a reasonable manner.

 

[restever99]

All good points. My mind is just conditioned to think of every single possibility and tends to cycle through them rather quickly. When confronted with something new it starts a chain reaction that cannot be stopped. Most likely the reason I took up smoking in the first place

Overall I am glad this forum is here so that we can voice our concerns and engage in this activity as responsibly as possible.

 

[BiscuitSlayer]

I just bought my 901 and I have been using it for about 5 days now. I did a lot of research on this forum on the device itself, but not so much on the liquids or their different strengths. I went streight for the high nicotinte marlboro carts and the 24 mg liquid. It was a perfect match for me.

I was smoking ultralight analogs (about 1/2 pack or more a day), but I figured that I should go for a higher nicotine content in the liquids and carts. One thing that I know now is that I am vaping a little more frequently than I was smoking, but I don't take nearly as many drags at one time. I find myself taking four or five good drags and then putting the 901 down for a while. For the first time in 20 years of smoking, I feel like I can drop analogs without any issue.

Over time my goal is to decrease the nicotine content until maybe I am just using the low to 0mg content liquids. I was able to go from 1 pack down to 1/2 pack before switching to vaping, but even then I was having rather severe cravings. I don't get those cravings while I am vaping. To me, it truely is amazing.

 

[Nadia Maximus]

That makes alot of sense about only getting a small fraction of nicotine with vaping. Also, I started to make my own juice, that way I know whats in it.

 

[Kate]

... only getting a small fraction of nicotine with vaping. ...

I think that's a myth, there are too many overdose stories from hardened smokers swapping to liquid nicotine. The maths and science don't agree either.

 

[TropicalBob]

I reread Dr. Laugesen's post. I was wrong about nine times less nicotine in a e-puff. It's even less than that.

E-cigarettes so far tested, show much less nicotine in their puff than does tobacco smoke. For the Ruyan electronic inhaler it is no more than 9% of what is in a tobacco puff.

I think that's just about dead on accurate. It certainly is for me and my year's experiences with e-cigs, pipes and cigars.

 

[Myk]

I think that's a myth, there are too many overdose stories from hardened smokers swapping to liquid nicotine. The maths and science don't agree either.

You're a hardened smoker aren't you?
And you think that 18mg is high, and I recall you vaping that.

Try a pipe with Gawith & Hoggarth Brown Rope (you should be able to easily get it in the UK since it's a UK company). Don't inhale but don't smoke it slow.
I'd be extremely amazed if you don't come back with an OD story. I know plenty of hardened cigarette and pipe smokers who have.

All delivery systems are not equal.
I'd equate it to a junkie mainlining vs skin popping. If they skin pop enough chasing the rush they got from mainlining they end up ODing.

 

[Kate]

I'm even less convinced by your arugment after reading this:

"The PDP [Next Safety’s Pulmonary Delivery Platform] delivers nicotine with higher efficacy than a cigarette. Importantly the PDP delivers nicotine safely, unlike cigarettes."

Pulmonary Drug Delivery

The only way I'll be satisfied that we get less nic from vaping is if a medic does fair and proper plasma nicotine tests comparing tobacco with vaping. Dr Laugesen keeps changing his story and has no credibility with claims of a cartridge lasting a day to four.

 

[Myk]

You didn't try the test did you?

 

[Kate]

What test?

 

[Myk]

What test?

Try a pipe with Gawith & Hoggarth Brown Rope (you should be able to easily get it in the UK since it's a UK company). Don't inhale but don't smoke it slow.
I'd be extremely amazed if you don't come back with an OD story. I know plenty of hardened cigarette and pipe smokers who have.

You think a hardened nicotine user shouldn't get OD symptoms just by changing systems unless they are getting more nicotine.
You won't feel the rush you'd get from an analog but you will feel the OD.

BTW, since I've got back on cigarettes I pretty much only smoke rope or dark plug and I can OD on either if I smoke too fast.

 

[TropicalBob]

I'm even less convinced by your arugment after reading this:

"The PDP [Next Safety’s Pulmonary Delivery Platform] delivers nicotine with higher efficacy than a cigarette. Importantly the PDP delivers nicotine safely, unlike cigarettes."

I just finished that propaganda piece. No references at all. They can SAY anything until challenged.

Sorry, Kate, but I don't buy it. I know OD, having done so on snus and pipes together twice in the past quarter. Nasty. But I seemingly get nothing from vaping 18mg all the time, so I non-stop use snus and Stonewall and smoke four pipefulls a day. That keeps my blood nicotine level at a survivable level so I don't rush out and buy a pack of real cigarettes.

As we've agreed on before ... something is missing in vapor. Something is not there that replicates smoking tobacco. Mick sang it well ... "I cain't get no satisfaction ..."

 

[Kate]

Oh, ok I think I see your point Myk.

I hope you get satisfaction one day TBob but with your level of tolerance and dependence I wouldn't bet on it.

Talking of propaganda by the way ... who commissioned the good doctor ... and who claims a cartridge lasts longer than a day?

 

[TropicalBob]

Ruyan. Kate, my goodness, there's a huge difference in reporting clinical trial results and writing a press release. Dr. Laugesen came to an international conference in the U.S. a year ago to make his first report on e-smoking to gathered doctors. He is subject to intense peer review. If he lies, it's his end.

What is Next? Private company looking to cash in. They said lots of things we know are true. It's the questionable ones, with no scientific reference, that stand out.

Here's what could be true: It is possible to get more nicotine from a puff of an electronic inhaler than a cigarette. Trouble is, the nicotine strength would have to be such that the product would be banned as poison, or placed exclusively under physician prescription. Present strengths are not equal to that obtained from standard regular tobacco cigarettes, in my experience.

Please don't again disparage the only researcher on the planet who has been testing e-smoking for a year. And exactly where would you expect research money to come from? It must come from manufacturers. No one else cares!

 

[Kate]

If that research has any merit it will stand up to scrutiny, even mine.

Your experience isn't the same as everyone elses experience. As I said, there is no scientific basis for any of the claims until proper, fair trials have been carried out to measure exactly how much nicotine is being absorbed.

I'd rather go by my experience, my informed opinion and my calculations than your experience and a possibly inaccurate measurement presented as fact.

Was it fact the first time, the second or the next time it changes?

 

[Jammi98]

Interesting link Kate. Did you notice this quote, a bit further down the page?

"Inhaled nicotine may provide a new tool in the battle against the obesity epidemic that afflicts millions worldwide. It has been identified as an appetite suppressant in animal models, and nicotine withdrawal has been associated with weight gain in humans. Nicotine delivered in cigarette smoke has also previously been recognized as a digestive aid. A pure clean form of nicotine has the potential to be used in this manner as well."

I am surprised that this company are proposing the use of a highly addictive substance to "cure" obesity, which affects 1/3 of American adults. On the other hand, if it were to pan out, us ex-smokers would not be so alone.

 

[Kate]

I know, it looks a bit dodgy to me, I thought the links with nicotine and weight loss were quackery. Hopefully, unless small doses of nicotine are beneficial for health, they won't encourage more to become addicts. Could taking up an addictive drug be a good answer to an unhealthy eating problem? I've not come across any credible scientific research that links nicotine with weight loss therapy.

I have to admit, I'm not convinced that Next is a reliable source of information, their talk could be corporate manipulation.

Asthma and COPD treatments via inhalation make sense though, I'm sure there's a place for our little devices somewhere in the medical world.

 

[TropicalBob]

Any claim demands "prove it" and that can't be done.

Also, note that when primates were tested by being forced to inhale propylene glycol all the time (see germ-killing vapor thread), they gained weight! Now I know personal experience can't be generalized to everyone, but I've gained weight every month since I quit real cigarettes. I now weigh more than at any other time of my life. It's midriff bulge.

Two reasons: My metabolism is lower as a non-smoker; I eat more because I sit in front of a table of food and desserts and no longer rush for the door to have a smoke. Factor in no more walking outside and way away from the office to have a cigarette multiple times every day ...

Miracle weight loss? I bet not.

 

[yvilla]

Dr Laugesen keeps changing his story and has no credibility with claims of a cartridge lasting a day to four.

Kate, having read his reports, I think there may be an issue of how we are interpreting the Doctor's claims about how long a cartridge lasts. It does not look to me that he is basing that on any actual testing. Rather, it seems he starts from that as a premise supplied by Ruyan.

But I also don't think he actually claims that that is something he has tested either, so it may be a bit unfair to criticize him on that ground. More relevant to us are his reports as to the amount of nicotine detected in the vapor and per puff, etc. Knowing what we do about the reality of how long a cartridge lasts, then all we have to do is extrapolate from his figures for a more realistic idea of the total amount we may get from a cartridge.

Although I do agree with you that we need research on the plasma concentrations of nicotine resulting from use of our devices.

 

[Kate]

I don't mean to undermine the Dr really, I just don't think we can take every assertion and whim as gospel truth. We need to think for ourselves, question and double check everything rather than trusting what we're told.

The Dr can say there are x amount of puffs in a cartridge and each one has x amount of nicotine but if he's starting from the premise that a 16mg cartridge is a days worth of puffing with heavy use then the calculations are going to show a maximum intake of 16mg a day. That sounds like something Ruyan might want to be saying if they are to be approved for NRT.

If Ruyan determines how long a cartridge lasts then have they also determined (not by science or proof) that a puff doesn't deliver as much nicotine as tobacco?

Well I'm not a scientist but to me it just doesn't add up that we are getting less nicotine with more mg, prolonged vaping, higher pH and all the reported symptoms of overdoing it. My own experience is that I can overdose with vaping but I could chain smoke roll ups without noticing.

A lot of the tests the Dr carried out have reassured me greatly about safety but I just cannot understand the discrepancy in nicotine calculations. Sorry to go on about it, I just cant reconcile this without questioning the measurements.