Vamo V5 Mean vs RMS does PWM just suck?

[OnePercent]

So I can't post in the APV section but I bought a vamo v5 a couple of days ago and was pondering and researching this issue. The battery life simply sucks.

With a tiny stick battery my egos last about a day of chain vaping aspire tanks and all is well. With the vamo, a 2x rated (2000mah) battery lasts maybe 2 hours. I'm not upping the power, I'm actually lowering it. I'm doing a ~2ohm coil at about 3.0-3.2v. My ego-V v3 is similar, with its 1300mah battery I'm getting 5 hours max.

So I stumbled across a thread after much digging where one member tested how many batteries it took him to suck down a 3ML tank in RMS vs Mean mode on a V2. After looking at his data I decided to try it out and now my batteries appear to be lasting longer, much longer. The forum is full of threads telling people to switch to RMS mode and almost none mentioning this issue.

Unfortunately there are some problems. The vape in mean mode is a bit weird, on the lowest setting (3v) I'm getting what a dialed up vape would be and the snap sound is gone. The top also gets hot after some chain vaping which is a bit unexpected since I should be around 5W according to the setting. Testing with my DMM and no load DOES produce the right voltage. I don't know how I could test this under load since the leads don't exactly fit with a tank on top. Can anyone tell me ... is going on?

 

[EBates]

If you've decided to run your Vamo in Mean mode all I can say is welcome to burnt vapes. Since the V3 came out Vamo stopped providing info on Mean/RMS setting. All Vamos come set to Mean mode. When I got my V3 I was almost to the point of sending it back. Even with the Voltage/Wattage set to the lowest value I got burnt vapes. Recommendation set to RMS.
Battery life, Get yourself some NCR18650PF 2900mah Panasonic's. I vape constantly on my Vamo/Zmax and get over 18 hours of run time. Your results may vary, but that's my story.

 

[CreepyLady]

a 2x rated (2000mah) battery

As far as direct relationship to battery life - your Vamo is basically only a holder. Your settings and resistance would affect how long a charge lasts, but not literally your vamo (at least not in a noticeable quantity) What kind of battery and what kind of charger? A poor or low quality battery (or a no name battery) will have inflated mah and stats. Same goes for the charger. A reliable source is also a BIG key. A knock off of a good battery will also have less than desirable performance.

What is the type of battery and the source? This may be your battery life issue...

 

[OnePercent]

I have a nitecore i4 v2, some recovered CGR18650D and some crappy ultrafires. In pulsed RMS mode I am definitely getting much quicker voltage drops. The same battery that dropped off to 3.2v yesterday in <2 hours has been hanging out at 3.9v since 11AM. Its lost only .3V in 1.5hrs

As for all vamos come set in mean mode, mine was RMS out of the box and it remembers its setting between battery changes. Its KDS3.0

 

[Glenn_K]

Greetings, welcome to the forum.

As mentioned, the battery time you're getting on your Vamo depends on which battery you're using, and mAh rating isn't necessarily a reliable indicator; best bet is to get a solid brand.

There are some brand recommendations on Batitude's Blog which should give you better results. What type of battery are you using now?

I've personally used AWs and Panasonics, and been happy with them.

-- Glenn

So I can't post in the APV section but I bought a vamo v5 a couple of days ago and was pondering and researching this issue. The battery life simply sucks.

With a tiny stick battery my egos last about a day of chain vaping aspire tanks and all is well. With the vamo, a 2x rated (2000mah) battery lasts maybe 2 hours. I'm not upping the power, I'm actually lowering it. I'm doing a ~2ohm coil at about 3.0-3.2v. My ego-V v3 is similar, with its 1300mah battery I'm getting 5 hours max.

So I stumbled across a thread after much digging where one member tested how many batteries it took him to suck down a 3ML tank in RMS vs Mean mode on a V2. After looking at his data I decided to try it out and now my batteries appear to be lasting longer, much longer. The forum is full of threads telling people to switch to RMS mode and almost none mentioning this issue.

Unfortunately there are some problems. The vape in mean mode is a bit weird, on the lowest setting (3v) I'm getting what a dialed up vape would be and the snap sound is gone. The top also gets hot after some chain vaping which is a bit unexpected since I should be around 5W according to the setting. Testing with my DMM and no load DOES produce the right voltage. I don't know how I could test this under load since the leads don't exactly fit with a tank on top. Can anyone tell me ... is going on?

 

[Ripshod]

RMS = Root Mean Square(d). All this means is 'Mean' is a direct average of samples of the signal, whereas 'RMS' is the square root of the average of the squares of the samples of the signal.

Now the crux of the matter. When your dealing with a square wave (PWM) there is no difference between RMS and Mean calculations/results.

RMS/Mean makes no odds when dealing with PWM. When we get a mod that'll deliver anything other than PWM then RMS will come into it's own.

As a vaper it means nothing. As an electrical/electronics engineer however it means the world to me.

[/RANT]

 

[MikeMills]

I run mine in the voltage mode (3.6-3.8). I can usually get a full day using one 18350.

 

[OnePercent]

The recovered Panasonic cells are definitely better than the ultrafires. I'm never buying those again and yeah, brand batteries with high draw will be the way to go... but right now I have like 12 of these batteries. Maybe it will be good to see what laptop battery packs have the good cells and buy those OEM. I think at 7-12 a battery, I'd rather do one ~20-40 laptop bat and crack it open for the 6 to 8+ cells.

Now the crux of the matter. When your dealing with a square wave (PWM) there is no difference between RMS and Mean calculations/results

So here is a funny. I'm supposed to have an RMS multimeter (extech 470). On mean mode I measure ~3v, no load. On RMS mode I measure ~1.5v. SO is mean mode not pulsed and rms is? RMS too fast for my DMM or the DMM is lies?

I have heard that the 18350s stacked are better on life because you are dropping their voltage from like 6v down to 3... but with the 18650 I should STILL be going from ~3.7 to 3 and be saving.

 

[CreepyLady]

The recovered Panasonic cells are definitely better than the ultrafires. I'm never buying those again and yeah, brand batteries with high draw will be the way to go... but right now I have like 12 of these batteries. Maybe it will be good to see what laptop battery packs have the good cells and buy those OEM. I think at 7-12 a battery, I'd rather do one ~20-40 laptop bat and crack it open for the 6 to 8+ cells.



So here is a funny. I'm supposed to have an RMS multimeter (extech 470). On mean mode I measure ~3v, no load. On RMS mode I measure ~1.5v. SO is mean mode not pulsed and rms is? RMS too fast for my DMM or the DMM is lies?

I have heard that the 18350s stacked are better on life because you are dropping their voltage from like 6v down to 3... but with the 18650 I should STILL be going from ~3.7 to 3 and be saving.

The recovered batteries and ultrafires are your problem. Recovered batteries, are used. They are going to have diminished capabilities. Ultrafires - should be avoided. Rule of thumb is to avoid batteries and chargers with the word "fire" in the name. Trustfire, surefire, ultrafire, etc. They are poor quality batteries with crappy performance and worthless QC.

You will not see yourself any better off by removing cells from a laptop battery.

Purchase proper chemistry high drain IMR or Hybrid Batteries and then you will get proper performance from your device.

 

[OnePercent]

I'm saying there may be high drain IMR in some laptop (or other) packs which would make buying those packs better than buying single batteries at a time.

The recovered batteries are actually performing decently compared to the ultra-fires and they are old and used. From reading the vamo battery thread it seems for an 18650 the vamo circuitry draws like 1.4 to 1.6 amps extra overhead.

The manual alludes to using mean mode for 18650 and RMS for stacked 18350s and I'm starting to see why. IMR 18350 stacked looks like the best way to go. Its either that or carrying a bag of 18650s which were cheap/free.

But the (mostly engineering) question still remains, does mean mode not use PWM since the readings on the DMM are constant and what the voltage is set to? Or is it pushing out 6V and my meter is picking up ~1/2?

 

[EBates]

I'm saying there may be high drain IMR in some laptop (or other) packs which would make buying those packs better than buying single batteries at a time.

The recovered batteries are actually performing decently compared to the ultra-fires and they are old and used. From reading the vamo battery thread it seems for an 18650 the vamo circuitry draws like 1.4 to 1.6 amps extra overhead.

The manual alludes to using mean mode for 18650 and RMS for stacked 18350s and I'm starting to see why. IMR 18350 stacked looks like the best way to go. Its either that or carrying a bag of 18650s which were cheap/free.

But the (mostly engineering) question still remains, does mean mode not use PWM since the readings on the DMM are constant and what the voltage is set to? Or is it pushing out 6V and my meter is picking up ~1/2?

If PWM is not being used then you will never see higher than the actual battery voltage.

 

[Bunnykiller]

there was a youtube video of some ultrafire battery being taken apart... inside was a 600mah battery and flour...

just wondering hmmm...

 

[OnePercent]

So what is going on with that mean mode 3v output on my dmm? I it really 6v at 50% duty cycle? It is still lower than battery voltage.

I've started a battery log chart... The CGR18650D's are lasting much much much longer than several ultrafires in a row. Looks like ripping apart laptop batteries is better than buying "new" from ebay.

I guess if you're going for sub ohm coils the ~4 amp current draw limit would start some fires but doing the math I'd be burning the juice and breaking the atty before the battery, even adding the 1.6A overhead from the PWM circuit.

Buying CGR18650CH probably isn't going to give me much additional life over these. Might as well save for the kayfun and roll some higher ohm coils while hunting for more laptop packs.

First one is done 5H 39M at 3.2V ~2.1ohm coil. Not bad for trash from 2008. When I find out which UltraFire lasts the shortest I'll cut off the label and see if there is a REAL part number.