Vaping and Big Tobacco

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rocketpunk

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 14, 2012
4,338
7,442
Dayton, Ohio
Does anyone have solid, concrete numbers on how much money Big tobacco is losing to vapers? Links to any potential studies would be great.

The only way I can compare vapers to smokers is the idea of the New-Born Christian. So full of conviction, and all they want to do is spread the good news. I'm serious! Our work went from 20 smokers to about 3 or 4, and we no longer have smoke breaks anymore.

I know Big tobacco is feeling some kind of hit. I bet they're sitting in their s....y offices, pounding desks, and demanding "Ban them! Ban them! BAN THEM!"

How many palms do you think Big tobacco has greased?

Raw data would be awesome, thank you!
 

StormFinch

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 22, 2010
2,683
4,812
Arkansas
No clue as to what BT is losing in profits, but they aren't actually the ones pounding their desks. BT is jumping on the bandwagon with Lorillard buying Blu, and at least one of the other mega companies is working to develop their own brand.

The companies having panic attacks are all BP - Big Pharmaceuticals. If every smoker switched to e-cigarettes then they would no longer be chained to the cigarette/NRT roller coaster, not to mention the sales of lung cancer and COPD drugs would start to drop. Also included in the mix are what we call the ANTZ, Anti Nicotine & Tobacco Zealots. Again, if all smokers switched to e-cigs, then BP stops donating millions of dollars to the ANTZ and certain ANTZ, like the American Lung Association, have a lot less to solicit donations over.
 
Last edited:

wv2win

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Feb 10, 2009
11,879
9,045
GA by way of WV
Honestly I think it's good that BT is getting involved in ecigs cause we'll have their financial backing in legal cases. However not sure how much I'd trust their products..

All indications are that BT will push for regulations that allows prefilled carts at low nicotine levels only which will help their bottom of the barrel products like Blu and cripple their competition while mollifying the FDA. I hope that is not the case but I will not be surprised when they reveal that this is their position.
 

kristin

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Aug 16, 2009
10,448
21,120
CASAA - Wisconsin
casaa.org
All indications are that BT will push for regulations that allows prefilled carts at low nicotine levels only...

Really? What indications have you seen from tobacco companies that this is their plan? Do we really know that tobacco companies won't see the huge market potential of the advanced devices and refill liquids and want to get into that market, too, rather than squash it?
 

filter

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 14, 2012
403
148
California
i think those with the financial means should stockpile massive amts of liquids as well as diy ingredients. i'd like the security of knowing that there is a near endless supply of it around in case the govt does go after liquids because a) it'll make it much easier to get with new laws in place and b) there will be some sort of legal argument that stock purchased when it was legal may still be legal after its banned (like in the case of assault rifles).
 

Orobas

Equine Disrespect
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 3, 2012
7,766
6,264
41
Jarhead City
This is by no means comprehensive but as a general idea..
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...alculator-here-please-add-your-data-list.html

Uh... didn't realize they'd blank out "w a n k" from "s....y". Not trying to bypass the filter. Wow. It was supposed to be "S W A N K Y" offices.

The head honcho *IS* from the UK, lol.

Really? What indications have you seen from tobacco companies that this is their plan? Do we really know that tobacco companies won't see the huge market potential of the advanced devices and refill liquids and want to get into that market, too, rather than squash it?

This, maybe big pharma, but not big tobacco. Though i'd be worried big tobacco would wind up with the same addictive additives in juice as they do with cigarettes to keep us consuming.
 

Thrasher

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 28, 2012
11,176
13,742
Madeira beach, Fla
There are a lot of potential downfalls to this situation, but there is also hope when huge companies like lorillard, and phillip morris (who purchased Ruyan Group, the first ecig) get into something like this, there is the potential that some better standardizations come about and maybe cheap junk like gas station ecigs will quit drowning out the people who try that crap and decide this isnt really working for them.

you think PM wouldnt be all up in everyones face if they could say "yes we found a way for you to keep smoking OUR BRAND without the downfalls of cigs and you wont stink! or burn your house down, or have to stand in the rain at work!!!!

they have deep pockets for research and development, and just as they couldnt stop us from rolling our own they wont stop the mod/hybrid crowd either. in the end their involvement in this new arena may actually come to benefit the vapor community. we all know they dont have our best interests at heart but they have always fought and fought hard for our right to smoke, hopefully they will put this weight behind the vaping community as well.
Imagin a true marlboro flavor or parlaiment, not the crap now but that sweet musty tobacco smell we all relished when opening a new pack, some may have moved on but i bet if they could match what i remember boro's tasting like 35 years ago they would sell juce like it was crak.

It was stated that BT is the only industry on the planet that spends 8 bill a year trying to convince you NOT to use their products (through pub srvc messg's). and im sure they would be happy to advance vaping so they can keep it in the bank.
 
Last edited:

wv2win

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Feb 10, 2009
11,879
9,045
GA by way of WV
Really? What indications have you seen from tobacco companies that this is their plan? Do we really know that tobacco companies won't see the huge market potential of the advanced devices and refill liquids and want to get into that market, too, rather than squash it?

This was the position of Healy who sold Blu to Lorrilard. And if you examine Big Tobacco's past interactions with the federal government along with their buiness model, it makes perfect sense to make this so-called accomodation. They can only profit from a limitation of sealed carts only.
 

thew92

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 26, 2012
461
485
Texas
Really? What indications have you seen from tobacco companies that this is their plan? Do we really know that tobacco companies won't see the huge market potential of the advanced devices and refill liquids and want to get into that market, too, rather than squash it?

My concern and indications are that since the FDA could/might have the power to "deem" Ecigs and Nic-Liquids in the powers granted to them by the 2009 Tobacco Act. Since Big Tobacco has a relationship with the FDA in writing regulation. Big Tobacco will suggest regulations that will cut out the most of Nic-Liquids out there. I do not have any proof of this but I fear this greatly. Now in the Nic-Luiqud market is in the "Wild Wild West" stage this will not last for ever. I have seen the "Wild Wild West" before as it relates to Online Poker and "Black Friday" when/if the regulations come the Vapor world in the US as we know will come to a sudden a quick end. I also believe the Ecig community should embrace and ask the FDA to implement the regulations that AEMSA set forth.
 

gthompson

Free at last
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 28, 2011
9,814
22,101
Tennessee, USA
Imagin a true marlboro flavor or parlaiment, not the crap now but that sweet musty tobacco smell we all relished when opening a new pack, some may have moved on but i bet if they could match what i remember boro's tasting like 35 years ago they would sell juce like it was crak.

You just haven't found it yet. It's out there.
 

kristin

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Aug 16, 2009
10,448
21,120
CASAA - Wisconsin
casaa.org
Though i'd be worried big tobacco would wind up with the same addictive additives in juice as they do with cigarettes to keep us consuming.

That's a lie perpetuated by the same ANTZ who, remember, also lie about the additives and toxic chemicals in e-cigarettes. So, seriously consider the source before repeating things you have been led to believe are "facts" by the ANTZ and the government.

The most addictive chemicals in cigarettes occur naturally. Tobacco companies add things to make them taste better and deliver the nicotine more efficiently (which actually means needing to smoke LESS.) There is absolutely no conclusive evidence that proves more nicotine or more efficient delivery of nicotine = more addictive. Consider that cigarettes made with LESS nicotine were shown to cause smokers to smoke MORE cigarettes. And we all know that it's not the nicotine that kills, it's the smoke exposure. So, one could conclude, more nicotine/better delivery = less cigarettes smoked = less smoke exposure = less harmful. Nicotine is already addictive and e-cigarette users are already mostly smokers who don't really want to quit anyhow. So, what logical reason would there be to put additional addictive "additives" into the liquid when the market for e-cigarettes is people who are already addicted? And also unlike traditional cigarettes, e-cigarettes are offered in varied nicotine levels down to no nicotine and most likely, e-cigarettes will be required to list ingredients.

Besides, e-cigarette companies are already adding additional addictive ingredients to liquid when they add WTAs. So what could tobacco companies add that e-cigarettes don't already have available?

Tobacco companies who sell e-cigarettes will also be under far more scrutiny because of their past history. Unlike with traditional cigarettes, a huge draw for e-cigarettes is the less harm aspect, so for tobacco companies to risk losing the confidence of that market (ie. we care about safety or else we'd just be smoking) would be completely illogical. If anything, tobacco companies would be highly motivated to prove to consumers that their liquid is more pure and more safe than the "wild west" e-cigarette sellers. Because vendors are having such a hard time setting standards themselves, this would be the marketing ploy I would use if I ran a tobacco company that sold e-cigs.

The idea that tobacco companies will add hazardous chemicals or chemicals to make e-cigarettes "more addictive" seems pretty nonsensical to me.
 

kristin

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Aug 16, 2009
10,448
21,120
CASAA - Wisconsin
casaa.org
This was the position of Healy who sold Blu to Lorrilard. And if you examine Big Tobacco's past interactions with the federal government along with their buiness model, it makes perfect sense to make this so-called accomodation. They can only profit from a limitation of sealed carts only.

So you think they will be willing to risk giving up a huge potential market on the off-chance that they will have an e-cig that has been able to accomplish something no stick model has been able to accomplish to date? One that will satisfy all of the people who moved to advanced models, just went back to smoking or using NRTs because it isn't crap? And they really don't think they'd have another RYO scenario by losing their unsatisfied e-cig users to a black market of better devices? Even Healy knows that most advanced users used blu as an "entry level" model. I think BT is smarter and greedier than to limit the profit potential like that.

If that isn't the case, then we have an even stronger argument for the refill liquid and advanced model manufacturers to organize and fight for their business model. At least I know CASAA will be fighting for it, but it would help to have organized e-cigarette companies in that fight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread