Vaping and Big Tobacco

[TTK]

This was the position of Healy who sold Blu to Lorrilard. .

That is a lie perpetuated by wv2win.

 

[wv2win]

So you think they will be willing to risk giving up a huge potential market on the off-chance that they will have an e-cig that has been able to accomplish something no stick model has been able to accomplish to date? One that will satisfy all of the people who moved to advanced models, just went back to smoking or using NRTs because it isn't crap? And they really don't think they'd have another RYO scenario by losing their unsatisfied e-cig users to a black market of better devices? Even Healy knows that most advanced users used blu as an "entry level" model. I think BT is smarter and greedier than to limit the profit potential like that.

If that isn't the case, then we have an even stronger argument for the refill liquid and advanced model manufacturers to organize and fight for their business model. At least I know CASAA will be fighting for it, but it would help to have organized e-cigarette companies in that fight.

Well, Kristin, I hope you are right. But from my experience in business (both corporate and entrepreneurial) larger businesses are much more interested in having a non-competitive market place (only game in town) than the smaller amount of customers they will lose to black market activity. The only positive might be that they will continue to be supplied by the same Chinese companies that have always supplied Blu their products and thus will not want to interfere with their non-cart eliquid business. But then again, they may just buy the probably much smaller Chinese supplier and not care. Bottom line, their concern is not the average, experienced vaper. It's their bottom line and if an accommodation with the FDA helps their bottom line, they will not care what any of us prefer.

But I really hope you are right and that more regulation does not mean significantly less alternatives.

 

[wv2win]

That is a lie perpetuated by wv2win.

This coming from the Queen of Half-Truths. Crawl back under your rock and try not to stalk all my posts.

 

[tc1]

I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of smokers vaguely know about ecigs ... if at all.

Tobacco will always be big business unless the government decided to start another failed substance prohibition.

 

[TTK]

This coming from the Queen of Half-Truths. Crawl back under your rock and try not to stalk all my posts.

The Blu troll trying to be clever. You're not.

 

[Unforeseen]

I understand things can get a bit heated. So, I would like to ask you both to stop arguing before I start taking action.

 

[thew92]

The most important thing you can talk about is what you know best--your own personal story about how e-cigs have helped you.

You can also say that you are concerned that there are groups that would like to see the product banned, and you hope that he will help keep the products available, effective, and affordable.

The FDA did its best to shut down the e-cigarette industry back in 2008 and 2009 when it began seizing shipments of products coming in from China, claiming that the e-cigarette was an unapproved drug-drug delivery device combination. After a legal battle in the Federal Court system, the FDA backed off on banning, but has announced that it wants to "regulate" e-cigarettes under the tobacco act (Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, signed into law in 2009). The problem with that is if they implement the exact terms of the law (which were written with combustible cigarettes in mind), they could ban the sale of any product that entered the market after February of 2007. There is a provision that allowed tobacco companies to apply for "substantial equivalency" status. The company would need to prove that the new product is nearly exactly the same as the ones marketed prior to Feb. 2007. Unfortunately, there was a deadline for submitting these requests built into the law, and it has already passed.

There is also concern that even if the FDA didn't move to shut down most of the business as described above, that they would apply unreasonable regulations that would be impossible for most companies to follow. They might impose regulations that would make the products less effective as an acceptable substitute for smoking, such as setting the maximum % of nicotine too low or outlawing all except for tobacco flavors.

Then there is the problem of the tobacco company user fees, which were based on multi-billion dollar corporations like RJ Reynolds. Nearly all of the vendors that participate in this Forum could by no means afford those fees.

Those are our worries at the Federal level. At the state level we have to keep fighting legislation proposed by the groups we refer to as the Anti-Nicotine and Tobacco Zealots (ANTZ). These include the Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights, Action on Smoking and Health, American Lung Association, American Cancer Society, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, etc. For a while, they were proposing outlawing all sales, then it became a ban on indoor use (by including the use of E-cigs in the definition of smoking), and some have even suggested taxation.

This was in another thread when I ask what I should tell my Congressman about Vaping. In bold is my fear of Big Tobacco. And my biggest fear overall.

 

[RoseB]

http://www.pmi.com/eng/pages/homepage.aspx

Go look at all of the places that just one tobacco company has exspanded to. After you look at that go look at where the smoking rates are highest. See for your self. The U.S. is just one country. Big tobacco has had their ... sued by many Americans. They were punished and learned how to adapt and cover their butts for future sales. We have distrusted them with good reason. It would be foolish for them (buisness wise) not to take over e cigs and they are. It sucks.

 

[filter]

Well, Kristin, I hope you are right. But from my experience in business (both corporate and entrepreneurial) larger businesses are much more interested in having a non-competitive market place (only game in town) than the smaller amount of customers they will lose to black market activity. The only positive might be that they will continue to be supplied by the same Chinese companies that have always supplied Blu their products and thus will not want to interfere with their non-cart eliquid business. But then again, they may just buy the probably much smaller Chinese supplier and not care. Bottom line, their concern is not the average, experienced vaper. It's their bottom line and if an accommodation with the FDA helps their bottom line, they will not care what any of us prefer.

But I really hope you are right and that more regulation does not mean significantly less alternatives.

if im not mistaken, blu uses american made johnson creek liquids in their cartos.

 

[Soundhunter]

Very careful wording here .. PMI.com Regulation of Reduced Risk Products

 

[Orobas]

That's a lie perpetuated by the same ANTZ who, remember, also lie about the additives and toxic chemicals in e-cigarettes. So, seriously consider the source before repeating things you have been led to believe are "facts" by the ANTZ and the government.

I'm not repeating anything. I'm simply well aware that BOTH big business AND the government have no moral qualms about poisoning us all for the sake of that last dirty dollar.