Vaping at the movies....

[Juice Layer]

My thinking is if you can't smoke in a certain area, then you can't vape. Except when I take a stealthy in my cubicle, then that's ok.

 

[EddardinWinter]

There are more than 20%, trust me. Closet smokers, smokers who bum but not purchase so therefore are ex-smokers lol, on the wagon-off the wagon rinse repeat, but 20% rebels with a clue is probably correct.

Yes, malls, restaurants, cafés, ... Anywhere they've taken away the smoking sections. Smokers only patronize when it's of dire importance. They prefer to shop online for everything and anything than to shop in a town that dismisses them as taxpayers. Businesses fold every day. The problem is, the higher the smoke taxes rise, even the online shops start struggling, because smokers buy smokes first, other necessities second. vaping is allowing people to mingle and shop again. But even then, it's a battle. Take Starbucks, for instance, & town councils who place bribery grant money ahead of its community.
It's a domino effect, whether we admit it or not.
Get rid of the high smoke tax and ridiculous bans, educate honestly, promote vaping honestly, & we'd see a huge improvement in the economy. (After everyone stockpiled in fear of the next dictatorship, greedy ban/tax).
Citizens freely shopping is what stirs the economy. Tax mugging and bans stop the economy.

I thought you were on very shaky ground with this argument from the beginning. I am still not sure that this is the only factor in it, but, you make a very compelling argument in this post. Upon further review, I think that the unreasonable outdoor smoking bans have harmed local economies, at least in part.

 

[generic mutant]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

 

[EddardinWinter]

(I might have to change my avatar to a certain Wizard of Oz character at this rate...)



I guess from my side of the fence, the difference is exactly that: nobody is trying to get parenting banned.

People *are* trying to get vaping banned. Some of them have significant power, money and influence. One of their favourite arguments is "The smoking ban was effective at getting people to quit. They have now, deus ex machina, evaded the ban. To finish the job, we need to ban e-cigarettes".

We are presently in a precarious situation. But the science is increasingly on our side, and there are *many* public places where it is perfectly acceptable to vape (at least for most of us). It's not like we're all meeting up in graveyards at 3 o'clock in the morning to wrap coils. The public *are* becoming used to seeing vapers, and generally probably don't think of vaping as simply "a way to dodge the ban".

Rocking this boat too much just seems risky and unnecessary. Although I concede, in the scheme of things, the cinemas issue is a very small point - and it's something I wouldn't feel bad about doing if nobody noticed. People are always texting, talking, eating loudly in cinemas. Chucking a little more into the mix is unlikely to change much.

Oh, GM. I am not talking about banning parenting, and I think you know that. I am asking you this:

Why are children not banned from restaurants by legislation but vaping frequently is? When children are not welcomed in these establishments, it is always by owner choice. When vaping is not welcomed, it is frequently due to local/state/university government action. Do you think that BP, ANTZ, and other legislatively well-oiled lobby groups might contribute to this disparity?

Please don't cite liquor stores not permitting minors on the premises to refute this, since that is not a ban for the occupant comfort and/or safety. Those bans are designed to restrict underage consumption.

I agree with your other premises, I just cannot permit you to dodge my riposte without calling you out on it. To your credit, there was no straw man I could detect in this post.

 

[generic mutant]

Hmm. I don't remember ever saying BP, anti-tobacco extremists, or other lobbyists and activist groups had nothing to do with proposed bans.

I remember saying that I think it's easier to legislate against unpopular groups, so if we're under threat of being legislated against, we should probably try to avoid actions which will make us unnecessarily unpopular.

What is it you call it when someone attributes a position you don't hold to you again..?

 

[diggyb]

What is it you call it when someone attributes a position you don't hold to you again..?

The human body is a wonderfully adaptive machine. Over-exposure to repetitive or constant stimuli can cause our body and senses to ignore it all together. Kind of like vapers tongue.

 

[chadsmo]

I'm currently walking around a shopping mall vaping. Nobody seems to care, and I live in a small ish city in Canada where a lot of people have never even heard of an e cig.

Case in point, there's quite a few vape friendly pubs here and one of the pubs I go to can get really busy. Sitting at the bar vaping and I still get the occasional person say 'umm you can't smoke in here ' and then they realize it's an e cig or something like that and go 'oh never mind , say that thing is actually pretty cool , did you use it to quit smoking … ' etc.

There's only like 3-4 people who go to the pub who vape too, but they're totally cool with it. One of the really regular customers there got an ecig and they questioned it briefly and he basically said 'I'm a regular and I'm hurting anyone so stuff it' , and just sort of said fine.

Anyways , I think vaping where you're not supposed to smoke , so long as you're not being a jerk about it , is good because it draws attention to ecigs and entices smokers to check them out and quit. And that's what it's really all about, getting people to quit smoking.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Maybe you'll be kind enough to clarify it for me then Edd?

Is it that there is no causal connection between the behaviour of rowdy children and their inattentive parents, and children not being welcome in certain places? Is it that such bans are actually the handiwork of a shadowy conspiracy of anti-child extremists, funded by an international Big Pharma contraceptives racket?

You were saying, what?

 

[generic mutant]

Things have many causes.

All I'm objecting to is an oversimplified view: there are anti-tobacco extremists who want vaping banned, so our behaviour has no effect on whether such bans take place.

I do not deny the existence of anti-tobacco extremists.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Hmm. I don't remember ever saying BP, anti-tobacco extremists, or other lobbyists and activist groups had nothing to do with proposed bans.

I remember saying that I think it's easier to legislate against unpopular groups, so if we're under threat of being legislated against, we should probably try to avoid actions which will make us unnecessarily unpopular.

What is it you call it when someone attributes a position you don't hold to you again..?

I did not say that you said that! I challenge you to cite where I did.

I am asking you a question, you are doing everything you can to avoid answering it. Why don't you answer? You are deflecting? Bravo for adapting your strategy, but I am calling you out on dodging my question. Additionally, you are strawmanning while deflecting! Impressive!

I do agree with your second sentence, but that is not what I am arguing against here...

 

[diggyb]

Not everyone reads Sun Tzu before posting their thoughts on a forum.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Not everyone reads Sun Tzu before posting their thoughts on a forum.

Well they should.

 

[garcia1996]

Theaters, restaurants, planes, etc. might not be the best places to vape, especially when the powers that be are looking for excuses to regulate or ban it. Very little, if any, vapor comes out on the exhale if you hold it in long enough.

 

[Uncle Willie]

The smoking ban may have had some impact on movie theaters, but it surely didn't empty them.

I keep wondering when was the last cigarette smoked in a movie theater .. ??

 

[LDS714]

STRAW MAN ALERT. You allow two possibilities. One, children run amok. Two, a vast arching shadow conspiracy. Did you really think I would fall prey to this limitation placed on my answer?

What we really want to know, and please limit your answer to yes or no, is if you've stopped *insert deplorable behavior here*?

I kid, I kid...

It's the old, dm'ed if you do dm'ed if you don't...

 

[EddardinWinter]

I keep wondering when was the last cigarette smoked in a movie theater .. ??

I smoked in one in the 90's. It was a special restaurant/theater, but it did exist in Richmond, VA until about 1996 or so...

You have to go through the whole line of posts on that to catch up. I thought the premise was shaky, too. But there is some logic behind it if you follow the discussion. You may or may not buy into the logic, but it is not nearly as far-fetched as you (and I used to) imagine.

 

[LDS714]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

Another G. Gordon Liddy fan, awesome!!!! He used to explain this one on a regular basis.

 

[Uncle Willie]

I smoked in one in the 90's. It was a special restaurant/theater, but it did exist in Richmond, VA until about 1996 or so...

You have to go through the whole line of posts on that to catch up. I thought the premise was shaky, too. But there is some logic behind it if you follow the discussion. You may or may not buy into the logic, but it is not nearly as far-fetched as you (and I used to) imagine.

Eddard, I did read thru the thread .. for some odd reason, I am strangely attracted to the myriad of threads that pose the "where should I use my PV ..?? " ... question

The flaw in the logic (I'm assuming you are talking about the economic loss) .. is .. had the ability to smoke been hypothetically still available, and all other things being equal, how much business would have been driven away by smokers .. ??

 

[504_Brunhileld]

Rule of thumb I have, is if I have to ask the question if something is appropriate to do, I probably know my answer. My answer would be no, as I would not personally want to cause a disruption that could ruin someone else wanting to watch the show. Not everyone is savvy on the ecig and some do not get it still that it is only vapor and not the real things.

 

[Sundodger]

I will vape where I can as long as no one complains. I will not blow it in their face. If I am no where near them when they complain, well, then we have a problem. They will obviously need and get a quick education about the subject. If it's the property owner then I will request to talk to them about it when they have time to discuss it. But a random other, no wait, now is the time.

I also lost a bet with myself. Early today when I first saw this thread I didn't believe it would make it until 14:00 CST today. Congrats to all for keeping it on topic and civil. I know at times I might have screwed it up so I kept my fingers shut.