Vaping has permanently damaged my voice

[Lessifer]

By chance, I happened to open this video just yesterday, didn't know it was about voice



So, after your post, I searched a previous video of his, and I found this one (there may be others)



I know these things aren't well-received by this community, because (a) some new vapers have attributed vaping to everything from baldness to ingrown toenails (b) we all know these posts are read by some who might use information against us.

But, to me, not to point out a legitimate concern is akin to the silence of those who were abused by Jerry Sandusky (gotta keep your mouth shut, don't tell, too much at stake here). No...where money and agendas are at stake, people want a don't ask, don't tell type of attitude.

The reason this interests me in particular is because my own voice started getting raspy at times for the last several months, not so much all the time, but if I talk very much at one time. It's pretty much every day. Not horrible, but noticeable. I smoked for over 45 years, 2 PAD in the last decades, and I never had a raspy voice. I've been vaping now for 3 years. This bothers me a bit.

I've never been much of a water drinker, but I'm trying to drink about 3 liters a day now. I'm glad I'm hydrated, but it isn't helping the voice any. BUT, when thinking about the action of vaping, even if the body is hydrated, I wonder if somehow the vapor constantly going in and out over the larynx has anything to do with it such as a drying effect. I mean, drinking water and inhaling it aren't the same thing.

I've sort of been trying to look the other way about this, because vaping is the best harm reduction strategy I've ever found, for me. Cigarettes were killing me. I'll still vape (at least until I decide I really can't any more), but I may try to manipulate things, like breathing moist air or adjusting VG/PG ratios or something before I throw in the towel.

PS. The voice thing is the only concern I have. I never had rashes or anything like that, but you might be allergic to VG or PG?

I wish you well and hope you find something to help you.

Disclaimer: I'm as pro-vaping as the best of you. I support vaping with all my heart and soul, as I feel it has saved my life (not to mention my pocketbook). I DON'T think vaping causes cancer or rampant devastation. I'm also pro-vegetables, pro-fruit, pro-fish, etc., but some people, for whatever reasons, cannot tolerate some things. That's life. We all have to do what is best for us, individually.

What's the usual pg/vg ratio you vape?

Just to be clear, I never intended to dismiss anything from the OP.

 

[subwayaznm]

Sorry to hear that you're having problems. I would think that most of us long term smokers are going through some type of problem(s) due to our choice to smoke for such time. The effects of smoking are cumulative; some can and will reverse themselves and unfortunately some don't. It's a shame that when we're young that nothing can touch us or harm us, because it's simply not true.
I've come to a point which I do the best I can to live life as well as possible with the given circumstances. And am even more grateful for everyday given to me.
Best wishes

 

[Just Me]

What's the usual pg/vg ratio you vape?

Just to be clear, I never intended to dismiss anything from the OP.

50/50, DIY, maybe 5-8% flavoring. I used unflavored for a while, but it got boring.

I know you didn't mean to dismiss anything, Lessifer; you're a good guy.

 

[Lessifer]

50/50, DIY, maybe 5-8% flavoring. I used unflavored for a while, but it got boring.

I know you didn't mean to dismiss anything, Lessifer; you're a good guy.

Thanks so you used 50pg and the OP used 70pg, so maybe that's got something to do with it? Many vapers are more on the vg heavy side. I know anything more than 30%pg has too much throat hit for me, and I don't even inhale into my lungs regularly.

 

[Racehorse]

I have no worries about exposing vaping or anything else. I am concerned about the people experiencing the problems.

To that end:

The reason this interests me in particular is because my own voice started getting raspy at times for the last several months, not so much all the time, but if I talk very much at one time.

@Just Me and @brekehan --- just please tell me that as long time smokers, and now ex smokers, and voices that are changing, that you did get, or are scheduled for, an endoscopy or some kind of imaging studies on your vocal chords, throat, etc.?

You just have to have this done as part of diagnostics to rule out polyps, growths, cancer, etc.

 

[Just Me]

I have no worries about exposing vaping or anything else. I am concerned about the people experiencing the problems.

To that end:

@Just Me and @brekehan --- just please tell me that as long time smokers, and now ex smokers, and voices that are changing, that you did get, or are scheduled for, an endoscopy or some kind of imaging studies on your vocal chords, throat, etc.?

You just have to have this done as part of diagnostics to rule out polyps, growths, cancer, etc.

 

[Just Me]

I have no worries about exposing vaping or anything else. I am concerned about the people experiencing the problems.

To that end:


@Just Me and @brekehan --- just please tell me that as long time smokers, and now ex smokers, and voices that are changing, that you did get, or are scheduled for, an endoscopy or some kind of imaging studies on your vocal chords, throat, etc.?

You just have to have this done as part of diagnostics to rule out polyps, growths, cancer, etc.

Since this is a recent issue for me, and I'm now overwhelmed with checkups (Welcome to Medicare), I'll probably put this off for a little while, unless it becomes very worrisome.

I may try different PG/VG ratios, and I might also try NOT PULLING ON THE THING ALL DAY, as I have been doing. There might be such a thing as "user error"!

 

[Lessifer]

Since this is a recent issue for me, and I'm now overwhelmed with checkups (Welcome to Medicare), I'll probably put this off for a little while, unless it becomes very worrisome.

I may try different PG/VG ratios, and I might also try NOT PULLING ON THE THING ALL DAY, as I have been doing. There might be such a thing as "user error"!

We, as vapers, are going to be the ones who figure out if there is such a thing as too much, or if certain aspects of vaping are more/less cause for concern. The powers that be will be too busy searching for a smoking gun, we'll be the ones finding out and teaching each other how to vape safely, just like we have been. For that to happen, we need people to be honest, and hopefully willing to explore all possibilities.

 

[subwayaznm]

I know I've adjusted the ratios a few times until I found what's worked for me. Since Vaping is something new to our bodies; it's an experiment to find what works for you. And as Lesser stated we are the ones to help each other and not the authorities whom don't Vape. And not much different with any other aspects of life as we age. A constant learning experience. And it can be done flexibility & awareness. Hang in there @Just Me

 

[zoiDman]

... For that to happen, we need people to be honest, and hopefully willing to explore all possibilities.

Do you think we, as a Group - Not as any one Individual, are Receptive to people who come to the ECF and relate a Health Problem that Vaping May or May Not have cause?

 

[Lessifer]

Do you think we, as a Group - Not as any one Individual, are Receptive to people who come to the ECF and relate a Health Problem that Vaping May or May Not have cause?

I think we, as a whole, are fairly skeptical and with good reason.

Individually, what I look for when someone posts about an issue they're having:
How long did you smoke?
How long since you stopped smoking completely?
What specific symptoms?
How long have you vaped?
How do you vape, including power, ratios, nic, style, etc.?
What have you tried to narrow it down?
What has your doctor said?
And whatever other information can be provided.

We do get our fair share of random maladies that someone decides HAS to be attributable to vaping, many of which are common to quitting smoking(however you do it). Add to that, most of the posts where "vaping gave me xxxx" result in a few posts, that usually never get any follow up.

 

[Just Me]

Do you think we, as a Group - Not as any one Individual, are Receptive to people who come to the ECF and relate a Health Problem that Vaping May or May Not have cause?

This is what I think...due to the "scary" propaganda that's been spewed since 2009, I think people in general are very leery of vaping. And as a result, when some people switch to vaping and then come up with problems, they automatically think it's vaping, when it might be something else.

I know there are some side effects from quitting smoking, whether a person switches to vaping or just goes cold turkey. Headaches, constipation, insomnia, vivid and horrible dreams...you fill in the list. Withdrawals vary by individual. That also applies to caffeine withdrawal.

Personally, I think vaping is virtually harmless. There may be some issues here and there that need to be addressed, but I'll still stand by the idea that vaping is magnitudes less harmful than smoking tobacco. (Of course, some of us overdo things...ME!)

I won't go back to smoking cigarettes ever again. I'll hang myself with my 500' of Sally's Cellucotton instead.

 

[zoiDman]

I think we, as a whole, are fairly skeptical and with good reason.

...

I would Agree that from what I have seen, on average, we as a Whole are Very Skeptical of people who Relate Health problems that they believe are Vape Related.

Are there Good Reason for this? I dunno?

I've Read Crazy Stuff that I Shake My Head at when some have said that Vaping Casued _____. And I have Read stuff that sounds like it came Straight from some Anti-Vaping Group as a Plant. And Members, have Slayed many of these Posts. And a kinda of Mob Mentality sets in.

But I have Also read stuff that Doesn't Sound like it is Out there. Or posted with some Agenda in mind. And sometimes that Same Mob Mentality can set in. And what I would consider to be Legitimate Concerns can sometimes be Summarily Dismissed as "You Smoked. Vaping is Harmless. Your Over-Reacting.".

JMO - But I think we have been on the Short End of the Stick when it comes to just about every Law, Regulation, Tax, Policy and or Study. That when Anyone say anything Negative about Vaping, that there is a Conditioned Response in Many People to Challenge and Dis-Agree with it.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Personally, I think vaping is virtually harmless. There may be some issues here and there that need to be addressed, but I'll still stand by the idea that vaping is magnitudes less harmful than smoking tobacco. (Of course, some of us overdo things...ME!)

I won't go back to smoking cigarettes ever again. I'll hang myself with my 500' of Sally's Cellucotton instead.

I think there is Still a Lot to be Learned/Understood about the Long Term effects of Vaping in General. And I think that some Flavoring/Sweeteners and or Vaping Styles will be shown to have the More Potential for Harm that others.

But I also believe that in Totality, e-Cigarettes use will be Proven beyond a Doubt to be Significantly Less Harmful than Smoking. And I think that we are Much Closer to that Point of Knowing today than we ever have been.

I'm never going back to Smoking either. Period. End of Report. But I still view e-Cigarettes as Harm Reduction. Significant Reduction. Yes. But Not Harm Elimination.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I sang, somewhat, when I was in primary school. The whole family had some ability and it was noticed. We didn't do it professionally or anything, but we did get together at Christmas and sing carols.

Not anymore for me. I just can't get a note as accurate and I definitely can't hold it. I quit smoking a little under three years ago and it has not come back. Well, except for when I am in the shower.

Life goes on.

 

[Lessifer]

I would Agree that from what I have seen, on average, we as a Whole are Very Skeptical of people who Relate Health problems that they believe are Vape Related.

Are there Good Reason for this? I dunno?

I've Read Crazy Stuff that I Shake My Head at when some have said that Vaping Casued _____. And I have Read stuff that sounds like it came Straight from some Anti-Vaping Group as a Plant. And Members, have Slayed many of these Posts. And a kinda of Mob Mentality sets in.

But I have Also read stuff that Doesn't Sound like it is Out there. Or posted with some Agenda in mind. And sometimes that Same Mob Mentality can set in. And what I would consider to be Legitimate Concerns can sometimes be Summarily Dismissed as "You Smoked. Vaping is Harmless. Your Over-Reacting."

JMO - But I think we have been on the Short End of the Stick when it comes to just about every Law, Regulation, Tax, Policy and or Study. That when Anyone say anything Negative about Vaping, that there is a Conditioned Response in Many People to Challenge and Dis-Agree with it.

I'm not going to say you're wrong. There is a tendency to go on the defensive.

There also seems to be two different types of posts. One like the OP here who gives details and at least seems somewhat open to exploring the possible causes, then others who post blaming vaping with no background and no real justification for why it would be vaping and not something else. Personally, I can't understand the reason for posting and not being open to exploring whether or not vaping is actually the cause, or better, what specifically about vaping might be the cause. Posts like that don't further our knowledge.

 

[zoiDman]

Just Me. But I think that when there is the Slightest Detection of an OP wanting Others to do something Negative about Vaping is when the Angry Mob is sure to Rise Up.

The OP in this Thread is Clearly Blaming Vaping for their Voice Problems. Heck, it is the Title of the Thread. LOL.

But I don't get the Take-Away that the OP wants me to Stop Vaping. Or that the OP is saying that this is going to happen to My voice. Only what they believe has happened to theirs. And what was the Cause. And is leaving it up to Me to make my own Judgments.

I think what a Health Problem is presented in this way, that the Response is like what we see here. People who are Sympathetic and willing to offer Possible Help.

Whereas, if a Person starts a Thread saying Vaping did _____ to me (and it is Going to Happen to You so you Better Quit) then the Reception is Completely Different.

I also think that the First 3 or 4 Replies to a Thread can set a Tone, both Good or Bad, for a Thread.

 

[brekehan]

People who vape are going to defend vaping. They are going to question anything negative said about vaping. I defended it. I called it harmless. I was of the mindset that "oh the tobacco companies and the FDA are just ...... about money!" Now, I realize there is probably more money in electronic cigarettes then there is in regular cigarettes! It's a cash cow! So, trust no one. There are agendas on both sides. If you find something on personal experience, trust that. If you find something someone else says relate-able, then trust that too..... until one day there is actual research.

4 years into it and I have no doubt in my mind that it was absolutely making me sick.
Rashes, anxiety attacks, heavy chest, trouble breathing. All of that.

Reading this forum in particular, one will find this is not as rare as we first suspected.

I am not trying to convince others to stop vaping. I am not your mother/father/uncle. I still do think I'd probably be dead by now or very soon had I not switched to it from smoking. However, now 4 years later, I do not think it is harmless and I don't think one can just keep doing it forever without ill effect.

The fact is, we have absolutely no idea what chemicals we are putting into our bodies every time we take a vape. We know there is PG, we know there is VG, we know there is nicotine, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of other compounds in the flavors we and vendors use.

Given the guaranteed outbreak of rashes on my body, if I go down the street and buy from the local vendor, I highly suspect there are certain flavorings that use "cheap ...." that people are either allergic too, or have a higher probability of reacting badly to in general. Beyond rashes, many others have complained about trouble breathing, heart problems, etc.

To discredit those complaints on the basis that a person smoked in the past in not very fair. Vaping was presented as a means to stop smoking. Of course most of us smoked in the past! That by no means, makes every symptom ever after a result of smoking. It may be, it may not be.

This particular problem, I very very much doubt is attributed to smoking in any way, simply because the rate at which I my voice degenerated while vaping and the fact I had no problems with my voice while smoking ever. I could be wrong.

To even argue about the legitimacy of it at all is counter productive. If you don't believe I damaged my voice from vaping, I am not going to convince you of it. I don't own a lab, nor do I have several sets of vocal chords to test on. Just the one set.

If someone else finds my post relate-able, and they also are having effects on their voice, then I have achieved my goal.

If they can list things in their equipment, juices, etc. that we find in common, then we have done even better.

But to sit here and have a "I have this symptom from vaping"..."no you don't" discussion is just plain silly. I probably won't believe vaping caused someone to become impregnated with a purple elephant, but when talking about our health, given that there is not reliable and trustworthy research to turn to, we just have to decide for ourselves what is believable and what isn't, and see what things we can relate to or see repeat occurrences of.

 

[440BB]

I may have missed it in the thread, but did you ever try unflavored to see if flavoring was causing your symptoms? I think there are a wide variety of flavoring sensitivities and reactions. Eliminating flavorings would at least isolate the problem.

 

[brekehan]

I may have missed it in the thread, but did you ever try unflavored to see if flavoring was causing your symptoms? I think there are a wide variety of flavoring sensitivities and reactions. Eliminating flavorings would at least isolate the problem.

Never did. I was just about to try unflavored form Wizard Labs to see if it helped when I just decided to quit the whole thing. I had gone a few days without vaping just from being scared of the breathing problems I was having and to clear up the rashes, so I said to myself, "why not just quit and not worry about it?!" So I did. I went through withdraw hell and am still going somewhat nutts every time I sit at the computer. My brain says "psst, you should put something in your lungs. wouldn't that feel nice?"..and yes it would, better than sex.

I very very much suspect flavorings. They are the undocumented monster.
I know several caused my rashes, because they'd come and go coinciding with when I switched juices. I also know certain juices effected my voice more in the short term and could guarantee a raspy voice day for the day I would vape them, but they were delicious....