Vaping masters, Please HELP with constant BURNT/DRY Hits!!

[Hans Wermhat]

Below is a pic of my plume veil. It's 6 wraps 24G N80 at 3mm, ohms out at .23. I run it at 50W on my ipv4 and it works great. Nichrome heats up faster and cools faster but is lower resistance, so if you are using a mech, I would add a few more wraps. I get 3 or 4 puffs before I have to wet my wicks again. It has a tight draw, so you have to lower the wattage and suck on it longer, but it will make a decent cloud. Not fog, but a decent cloud. You ARE using too much cotton. You want air to be able to flow through that thing freely. I took a couple off puffs off it before I took this pic. I usually let a couple of drops pool up on the deck when I refill it.

 

[LVixen]

Below is a pic of my plume veil. It's 6 wraps 24G N80 at 3mm, ohms out at .23. I run it at 50W on my ipv4 and it works great. Nichrome heats up faster and cools faster but is lower resistance, so if you are using a mech, I would add a few more wraps. I get 3 or 4 puffs before I have to wet my wicks again. It has a tight draw, so you have to lower the wattage and suck on it longer, but it will make a decent cloud. Not fog, but a decent cloud. You ARE using too much cotton. You want air to be able to flow through that thing freely. I took a couple off puffs off it before I took this pic. I usually let a couple of drops pool up on the deck when I refill it.
View attachment 469447

Hi there, Hans!

Thanks so much for checking out this thread and giving me some advice.

Unfortunately I don't have Nichrome at this time, but I'll be going to my local vape shop to pick up a few things today, though I'm quite confused as far as what to buy because some people are recommending I buy higher gauge wire because 24g is too slow to heat up, and then others are saying to pick up lower resistance wire, so I'm not sure...

Also, did you see this pic of my last build? Is this still too much cotton?

 

[Hans Wermhat]

That build looks good to me. I can't see why you are having problems. Have you fired it with the cap off and looked for hot spots while its vaporizing the juice? The only thing I can figger is that you have a hot spot or a hot leg somewhere. Anytime wire gets hot where it isn't in direct contact with a wet wick, you will get that dry hit we all hate so much. But after that many builds you should be on the right side statistics and luck. It doesn't make any sense to me, but without being able to see it I don't know how much more advice I can give. Have you tried taking it to a vape shop and letting them look at it?

I use 24G Nichrome 80 in my drippers. It's a lower resistance wire. It heats up faster and cools a lil faster too. It's also a lil easier on battery power. You have to be careful using it on a mech mod though because the resistance is a LOT lower than a similar gauge kanthal. You seem to know how to use steam engine. If you decide to try N80, make sure you look at the heat flux as well. It gets super hot super fast in comparison to kanthal, but it allows you to build bigger coils for more surface area that heat up faster with less power. My standard build for a dripper is dual coils, 6 wraps @ 3mm. Ohms out around .20 - .25. It fires instantly at 50W+. I wouldn't take it over 60W in that plume veil though. You don't have the airflow to keep it cool enough to vape comfortably. Even at 50W it will get quite warm.

If you want to stick with kanthal, I personally recommend 28G. It's thinner, so it heats up fairly quick even at 7 or 8 wraps and 60W+. That iPV3 has plenty of power to make the most of KA1 wire. 6 wraps would be about a .7 ohm build and should work pretty well. I used that build the first time I tried a dripper. It was slow to heat up on a 18650 mech, but with that iPV you should be able to crank up the watts a lil and get better results.

 

[LVixen]

Have you fired it with the cap off and looked for hot spots while its vaporizing the juice?

I definitely do fire the coils with the cap off right after I'm finished juicing the wicks, and I've never seen any hot spots or hot legs. What I HAVE noticed is very little vapor coming off the coils when I press the fire button with the cap off (or on for that matter). I guess it's because it's thick kanthal and slow to heat up? Also because of the higher resistance (compared to N80 or G-Plat) and the lower wattages I've been using?

Besides, as you've mentioned yourself, what are the chances that I've had a hot spot/lead in every build I've tried (which is probable 5 different sets of dual coils and 1 single coil at this point)? I got burnt hits with all of them.

If you decide to try N80, make sure you look at the heat flux as well. It gets super hot super fast in comparison to kanthal, but it allows you to build bigger coils for more surface area that heat up faster with less power.

Yes, I'm aware of the lower resistances of Nichrome and G-Plat. I always did plan to eventually go with one of those lower resistance wires to wrap builds with more surface area, but since I'm brand new to this, I figured I'd start with kanthal and get comfortable with that before I moved on to the lower resistance types of wire.

The reason I said I was confused as to what to buy next is not because I don't know the properties of the different wires, but because without knowing what the problem is with my particular situation, it's hard to figure out whether I should go with lower resistance wires such as Nichrome/G-Plat, or higher gauge kanthal which would heat up a little faster as well.

Oh, and what heat flux do you get (on steam-engine) at 50W with the 0.2 ohms 24G N80 build? What range do I want to be in?

That iPV3 has plenty of power to make the most of KA1 wire. 6 wraps would be about a .7 ohm build and should work pretty well.

What wattage would I want to set the iPV at with this build that you're suggesting?

 

[Hans Wermhat]

what heat flux do you get (on steam-engine)

Steam engine lists it at about 40. It's a nice warm vape for me.

What wattage would I want to set the iPV at with this build that you're suggesting?

That's going to be a personal preference. I'm still new at the regulated mod thing, but I would start at 30ish and work up from there. I run my N80 builds at 50W on the plume veil, but have never tried a KA1 build on a reg'd mod.

 

[LVixen]

Have you tried taking it to a vape shop and letting them look at it?

I've been meaning to do that, but was trying to figure out the problem on my own (with the help of you guys), but this may be something that needs to be looked at in person, so yes, I think I'm gonna go there today. I need to pick up some wire anyway.

Steam engine lists it at about 40. It's a nice warm vape for me.

I was asking about the heat flux for your build at around 50 watts, so I'm not sure what you mean by 40...



THANKS so much for your time!

 

[Hans Wermhat]

When you plug numbers into SE, it lists a heat flux number in the box on the right. There is a flame icon next to it that changes colors. Red is thermouclear meltdown, green is a comfortable temps, blue is on the cool side. Play with the "desired ohms" button and watch the colors change. It's more math than I can explain, but the colors sum it up pretty well. The watts don't matter, they just get you to the temp faster.

 

[LVixen]

When you plug numbers into SE, it lists a heat flux number in the box on the right. There is a flame icon next to it that changes colors. Red is thermouclear meltdown, green is a comfortable temps, blue is on the cool side. Play with the "desired ohms" button and watch the colors change. It's more math than I can explain, but the colors sum it up pretty well. The watts don't matter, they just get you to the temp faster.

Yes, I definitely understand all that. Did you see the attachment I posted with my previous question to you? What I mean is, 40 is not usually a number associated with the heat flux of a 0.2 Ω 24G N80 build at 50 WATTS. That doesn't make any sense...The heat flux should be MUCH higher than that. I think the 40 mW/㎟ you're referring to is at 10 WATTS (the default on steam-engine), but that's okay because I guess if at 10 watts the heat flux is 40, then at 50 watts it would be somewhere around 200 mW/㎟. I would imagine that's a good place to be

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

I would juice it and hit the fire button without the top cap on for the amount of time you normally pull on it so you can see if any wires nr the legs start to glow and do this a few times till its almost dry, this would eliminate the idea of hot spots, it is very possible to wick your coil tight or perfect and still get the last wrap of the coil glow, vaping a glowing wire will give you a nasty taste similar to burnt cotton and will normally be the top of a coil on the end where the cotton sags away from it.

The plumeveil is a nice little atty for taste but imo has nowhere near enough airflow, the way i overcame the airflow was to purchase some chuff topcaps to replace the plumeveils TC and also turning the barrel part of the atty upside down, not only does this give you more air but you also block off the holes that leak your juice when you over fill
Not having enough airflow will suffocate you on the first pull or you may just get a real hot vape, dependent on how much power you are vaping at.
Another thing to watch out for with using the standard driptip cap is that it fits inside the barrel which reduces the chamber size or deck space, have to be aware of this so as not to put your coils to close to it.

If you have to use the 24g then i would go with 6wraps dual 3/32id, although personally i would go less wraps than that so as to get it fired up quickly, the thing with heavy gauge wire is that if it takes to long to heat up it will produce alot of heat, i super sub ohm most of the time and take 1/2 second pulls which fill my lungs instantly, the 1/2 sec pulls keep the heat to almost zero. 26g kanthal is prob alot better for you or even 28g and maybe stick with the kanthal over the nichrome80 as you will need more wraps of it most likely producing more heat for that atty.

Try and get your wick perfect, when i pull mine through it has resistance and then if its a little to tight you can always pull it to and fro a few times to loosen it up, you will finally get to that stage where the wicking becomes second nature and you'll be able to do it with your eyes closed, especially if you use the cotton pads.

Your juice ratio may even be the problem, you said that the first hit is good then i think you say the 3rd was rough, to me thats a wicking issue, Vg is thick, but as your atty takes on heat it should make it a little runnier.
Maybe start making your own, you'll never look back and you can experiment with ratios as it suits you, ive vaped high %Vg juice and have worked my way back to 50/50, i dont see alot of difference in vapour but the flavour is much better.


the following vid i pinched from youtube but its an excellent example of how to wick but i will say that this style of wicking with all the cotton is more suited to hotter vapes, but he shows a few techniques that may help

 

[LVixen]

Okay so as @VictorViper and @Wolfenstark suggested, it seems like the problem was really the huge ramp up and cool down time of this 24g kanthal, combined with the larger surface areas of the coils I was building.

I followed @Ryedan's suggestion and built a lower resistance coil, still with the 24g kanthal (0.18 Ω, 4 wraps around 2.4mm bit), and that's working MUCH better! Takes about 4 draws before I get a dry hit, and that's normal because it just needs more juice at that point. So the issue wasn't really with the wicking at all!

I meant to go to the local vape shop today, but never got around to it, but I'm gonna go tomorrow for sure so I can get different gauge wires and rayon for wicking if they have it.

Here are some pics of the new build:

 

[LVixen]

The plumeveil is a nice little atty for taste but imo has nowhere near enough airflow, the way i overcame the airflow was to purchase some chuff topcaps to replace the plumeveils TC and also turning the barrel part of the atty upside down, not only does this give you more air but you also block off the holes that leak your juice when you over fill

Yes, I understand that the Plume Veil is not the best atty for chucking clouds and thanks for the tip about the chuff caps! That's a great idea!
And I do turn the barrel upside down at times, I'm not sure that it makes a whole lot of difference, but like you said, it does stop the bottom leaking air holes, LOL

the thing with heavy gauge wire is that if it takes to long to heat up it will produce alot of heat

As it turns out, this was EXACTLY the problem! I was having to hold the fire button entirely too long because it took so long for the coil to heat up, and all that heat was overcooking/burning the juice AND heating up the RDA housing.

the following vid i pinched from youtube but its an excellent example of how to wick

Yes, in doing my research to try to solve this problem, I came across Yosh Vapergate's videos and I watched that one a couple times. It's very informative!

you said that the first hit is good then i think you say the 3rd was rough, to me thats a wicking issue

Turns out the problem wasn't the wicking at all because when I finally got the coil right with this last build and brought the wire length and resistance down, I just wicked as I had been doing before and it worked just fine!

Live and learn!

THANKS SO MUCH for your input SLIPPY_EEL!

 

[edyle]

Oh, and what heat flux do you get (on steam-engine) at 50W with the 0.2 ohms 24G N80 build? What range do I want to be in?

you want the flame icon to be green.
blue is cold; red is hot; green is good.

usually around 200

 

[LVixen]

you want the flame icon to be green.
blue is cold; red is hot; green is good.

usually around 200

Okay, 200 mW/㎟ sounds good! Thanks so much!

 

[petrotech]

reading through this thread...

I just wanted to say how awesome the ECF community is!

 

[LVixen]

reading through this thread...

I just wanted to say how awesome the ECF community is!

Absolutely! I'm new here and so impressed with the patience and willingness to help that has been presented to me with this issue!
ECF rocks!!