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Vaporesso Swag can't fire below 30W in TC mode? That must be a joke!

Discussion in 'Temperature Control' started by billybc96, Dec 24, 2017.

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  1. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2010
    Reno, Nevada, USA
    This is a great disappointment, and seems hard to believe. I got two of these mods by themselves (not the kits with the NRG tank) specifically for TC mouth-to-lung use, to replace my aging iStick Pico 75s. The Picos never did SS TC all that well anyway - even after updating the firmware a few times. Strangely, unlike any other TC mod I've ever owned, the Swag can't be manually set to fire below 30W in TC mode, though it can be set to fire below that in straight wattage mode. Firing at 30W or greater is just too much initial power for a good MTL TC vape, even on a sub-ohm coil. Even some Vaporesso sub-ohm coil heads have a wattage range that starts below 30W, so I'm not sure why this particular mod has a 30W minimum limit in TC mode.

    I contacted Vaporesso about this. They said this is because the Vaporesso Swag is for "clouds", not MTL. That's ridiculous though. Why limit the mod to not fire below 30W when competing devices, such as the iStick Picos, etc. can fire well below 30W in TC mode without issue? I asked them about using customized settings to accomplish this with the Swag, but they had no answer for that - since the Swag is for "clouds", etc. Which was very unhelpful.

    Does anyone else have an answer to that? Looking at the custom settings in the Vaporesso Omni board software on my PC, it looks like maybe I could set the mod up to fire below 30W under the Power Line tab within the Customize settings tab, or possibly do a similar cheat via the Temperature Lines tab (or using both custom settings?) in the Customize settings tab, but it is unclear to me exactly how I would do this for my MTL TC needs. Any help here would be much appreciated, as otherwise I apparently just wasted my money on two Swag mods for no reason.

    You'd think if these mods really could not be fired at all under 30W in TC mode, that Vaporesso should probably tell people that before people like me (and many other MTL TC vapers) waste money on the product. This seems to be very unusual compared to your average TC capable box mod, even the really high power stuff - that can still, nonetheless, be fired at very low wattage in TC for MTL use. I could go on about my frustration with this, but I'll stop here, as further ranting on the subject is probably pointless. Any useful advice on this would be much appreciated though. Thank you.
     
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  2. ShowerHead

    ShowerHead Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 23, 2014
    Massachusetts
    This is the case on the Revenger X as well. Can’t get below 30W in TC modes.
    Suppose this is meant for clouds too...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2010
    Reno, Nevada, USA
    I'm not all that surprised, and I was even wondering if that would be the case, as I think the Revenger X also uses Vaporesso's Omni 2 chipset. It's probably configured a little differently compared to the little Vaporesso swag, but otherwise very similar as far as available settings and menu layout. Vaporesso's menu system, using that extra button, could've been a little better thought out, but it didn't take me long to figure it out. It wasn't a big con, but it wasn't a big thumbs up either.

    Not all cloud production requires super high wattage levels, depending on what you are topping the mod with. I'm still rather dumbfounded at Vaporesso's apparent decision to go this direction with their newer mods, especially since a lot of people are getting back into MTL more these days, and most of us (even me, even after 7 years of vaping) are still doing MTL style vaping most of the time.

    Are there any other, non-Vaporesso, TC mods out there that have a ridiculously high minimum wattage level you can't set the device to fire below in TC mode? I personally can't think of any, but I don't ever get to try out very many mods, so I'd have no real way of knowing. No reviewers of the Swag or the Revenger X seem to have made any comment on this limitation that I recall. Not even P. Busardo, who is supposedly a MTL guy. If it was me doing a review on these Vaporesso mods, I'd consider that limitation a big thumbs down con. Even sub-ohm folks still like to do MTL sometimes, even if only for the sake of occasional stealth vaping out in public.
     
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  4. Izan

    Izan Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 1, 2012
    Mallorca, Spain
    I would charge it back and return to vendor.
    The literature doesn't seem to disclose the limitation of the device.
    Vapresso lost any business I "might" have given them with the ceramic coil BS they released the other year. This is just another nail in the coffin for them, in my eyes.

    Best of luck
    I
     
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  5. DPLongo22

    DPLongo22 Variety IS the spice of vaping. Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 17, 2011
    Midworld
    They sure do tootle-puff like an absolute dream in power mode though.

    20171225_075130.jpg
     
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  6. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I'm sorry to hear about this, I would consider a charge back myself if it wasn't disclosed anywhere, I couldn't do TC with a ramp up of 30 watts either. How disappointing, I'm sorry to hear about it.

    Anna
     
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  7. DPLongo22

    DPLongo22 Variety IS the spice of vaping. Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 17, 2011
    Midworld
    What's a "ramp up"? ;)

    I just vape. :vapor:
     
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  8. DPLongo22

    DPLongo22 Variety IS the spice of vaping. Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 17, 2011
    Midworld
    [​IMG]

    Best wishes, all, and have a wonderful day.
     
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  9. BigEgo

    BigEgo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2013
    Alabama
    That sucks. The Swag is the nicest looking single battery "stealth" mod out there right now, imo. I was planning on picking one up, but I will pass if it has this limitation. I usually vape above 30 watts, but sometimes in TC I am right at that 25-30W range.
     
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  10. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2010
    Reno, Nevada, USA
    This whole "can't be set to fire below 30W in TC mode" limitation is probably removable if Vaporesso would come out with an Omni firmware update that did just that. So, for what it is worth, I'm going to write them back and ask them to do so, explaining to them that how they've got things setup now just makes their products less useful to their customers, and will hurt sales. The more messages of this nature they receive, the more likely it is that those messages will actually have an impact on Vaporesso's decision regarding this. To me it is a problem. I hope they resolve it, otherwise this is it for me ever getting any other Vaporesso mods ever again. To be fair, I do rather like their Estoc tanks and ceramic SS EUC coils, so not everything they make is idiotic or complete junk - which is one of the reasons this whole Swag thing has got me all riled up.
     
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  11. Baseman

    Baseman Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 24, 2015
    Munich, Germany
    Weird, the original Revenger does allow lower wattage in TC.
     
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  12. ShowerHead

    ShowerHead Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 23, 2014
    Massachusetts
    Different chips.
     
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  13. traianescu

    traianescu Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 2, 2017
    Reveger and swag are using the same chip ver2.0, revenger x is ver 2.5
     
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  14. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    Unacceptable. Looks to me their version of the Pico --- how small do you have to go to get a small, normal vape? The cloud chaser tank its paired with means nothing, Pico comes with a crap tank also.

    Kanger is or was unadjustable, preset to 75W.
     
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  15. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jan 27, 2016
    Long Island, New York
    After reading this I was thinking about how I use my Sub Ohm tanks in TC and none are fired under 50 Watts. Never thought about using TC in any of my MTL Tanks to be honest If you are using low wattage are these coils capable of firing in regular wattage mode like a SS316L coil? I am just thinking why even needing TC for low wattage but again this is just how I am thinking.
     
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  16. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    ^^-- I vape all day with an RDA and TC at 16 watts. I need TC more than any tank user!
     
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  17. billybc96

    billybc96 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2010
    Reno, Nevada, USA
    Agreed. Sure, you don't need TC to do MTL, anymore than you need TC to DTL. After all, we had both forms of vaping well before we had TC devices. But, much as TC has its advantages for DTL vaping, it has much the same advantages for MTL vaping. The consistency of the quality of the vape you get is probably one of the biggest advantages, along with not accidentally burning your wick, etc.

    With a tight MTL type draw, heat tends to build up quickly. That means if you are ever chain vaping much at all, you would need to vary your wattage quite a bit to get a consistently good vape, unless you are willing to settle for a sub-par vape. This is often what non-TC MTL vapers have to do, by keeping power delivery always on the extra low end - to avoid any problems. In that case, you are then usually stuck with a slow ramp up time on your first drag or two, which you just have to live with if you want your coil to last very long at all.

    Then came TC, and at first it seemed like it would only be for the sub-ohm DTL crowd. Early factory MTL TC coil heads really sucked (like the TC BVC heads that came out for the Nautilus clearomizer tanks). Then MTL vapers found they could get a big benefit from using TC when they properly built and wicked their own MTL coils in appropriate toppers for that purpose. And now, we have also finally been seeing some fairly decent factory built MTL coils come out that work well in TC mode, especially when being used on mods using improved TC boards.

    TC is not essential to MTL vaping anymore than it is to DTL vaping, but it sure helps a lot. I can get a heck of a consistent and long lasting TC MTL vape off of a well built MTL RTA that just wasn't possible before TC vaping really got going. As a backup to my RTAs, which I don't always have the time (or inclination) to mess with, I've been trying out a simple Vaporesso Estoc tank, using their fairly tight draw 0.5 ohm ceramic SS316 coil heads.

    With the airflow tightened up on that tank, and using a narrow bore drip tip, I've been getting a pretty good on-the-go MTL vape, but only using TC (just on an iStick Mini so far). I tried just using wattage mode with the Vaporesso Swag, but the ceramic coil heads tend to buildup heat even more quickly than a regular cotton or rayon wicked coil in a MTL RTA, so I had to constantly adjust wattage, and was always getting an inconsistent vape. The ceramic coils started off quite well at first, for MTL use, but they would wear out pretty quickly in wattage mode, and had to be replaced fairly often - like every other day or so. That made them next to useless for my needs.

    Using SS TC mode on the iStick Pico, these ceramic Vaporesso EUC coils (that the Estoc tank uses) have been lasting me more than a week, and are still going strong. Sure, they are not quite as good a MTL vape as you can get off of a dedicated MTL RTA (when well built), but they very simple, easy and relatively cheap to use - which is just nice to have sometimes. But they only consistently work for MTL over time when used in (relatively) low power TC mode (say around 18W or so) that the Swag (and apparently some other Vaporesso mods) simply are not capable of delivering, by design.

    There is really no good reason for this built-in limitation. I don't believe the Swag is any cheaper to manufacture because of this limitation. Obviously the devices themselves can deliver wattage levels below 30W. They have to in order to do TC well, and they obviously do so (down to 5W) in non-TC wattage, so why the limitation? It makes no sense, and seems to be a rather narrow-minded, dumb decision by Vaporesso.
     
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  18. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    ^^-- one possible reason for the limitation would be the extremely low resistances of nickel coils, although you might think it would be the other way around. I do know the Pico will fire in TC at a lower resistance than in power mode... OK, if that's the case the Swag should limit it in nickel mode not the others. Or based on the actual coil used.
     
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  19. reverser

    reverser Full Member Verified Member

    Dec 6, 2011
    東京
    Hi all,

    Apologies for the cross post - looking for some help / answers here:

    Old school vaper just coming back onto the scene with a second or third attempt at kicking the analog habit.

    As my previous run with ecigs was coming to an end, TC had just become a thing, with the DNA40 being released. I purchased 3 vapor flasks (back when they were actually made in the USA and milled from aluminum) with the DNA40 and used to build them with an RDA using Nickel coils and stainless steel mesh wicks (very old school, I know). I have never found a comparable flavor to mesh wicks, and I have put in the time to getting savvy with the build enough that I don't even have to do any oxidization of the wick before use (no shorts, micro-shorts, etc.), so no gripes about the finicky nature of SS mesh.

    I wanted something to inspire my return to ecigs, so I went out and got a Vaperesso Revenger X from my local vape shop, and while it is a neat little mod, I certainly am the direct opposite of the cloud chasing bunch, and go entirely for flavor / rapid liquid switchability (one of the many nice things about mesh wicks), and smooth but very tight draws (and as a result relatively low wattage), so the NRG (or similar atomizer / tank options) aren't / isn't cutting it.

    So, my plan was to use my old atomizer technique on the Revenger X to get back to where I was previously, but on some newer mod tech.

    I have been gravely disappointed to find out that the Vaperesso mods won't fire in TC mode below what for me is an extremely high wattage.

    Onto my question: I am looking at the SMOANT CHARON TS 218 as my next option, but I can't seem to find the answer on the most important factor to me. Will this mod support very low wattage (10W-20W, which I gather is considered very low by today's standards) while functioning in TC mode? If not, can anyone recommend a current, preferably touchscreen mod (or at least current tech) that can support my use case?

    Thanks in advance for any and all information that you can provide.

    Cheers,
    reverser
     
  20. reverser

    reverser Full Member Verified Member

    Dec 6, 2011
    東京
    Got the answer from a kind soul in another thread - looks like the preheat can be set down to 10W. As a result, I have pulled the trigger on this guy. Really looking forward to receiving it and hope it lets me blend the best of old and new.
     
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