Variable Voltage - Differences between tube and battery only models

[peraspera]

What are the basic advantages/disadvantages between mods like the Provari and the soon to be released VARIO as opposed to the variables that are battery only models such as the KGO and eGo Twist?

I am perplexed as to how they are able to sell the battery only models so cheaply while including the VV features. Are the batteries safe and how long to they normally last? Are they missing features that the tube models have?

I'm assuming that the tube models have some advantages over the battery only models because they cost more. What are the advantages?

 

[Baditude]

You have no idea the can of worms you've just opened.

It's ok, you're relatively new here, and its a valid question. I'm no expert by any means, but since I'm the first to respond, I'll give you my

The ego Twist and Kgo are mid-sized pv's that are essentially a one-piece rechargeable battery with a power switch, a connector for the atomizer, and an endpiece to connect to a charger. Within the battery is also an electrical processor that boosts its power output to the atomizer. They are considered to be disposable, as their expected lifetime can be measured in months. The battery duration of these batteries vary by their mAh rating, which can be 6 to 12 hours. Figure 100 mAh = 1 hour vape time.

The tube mods are basically large metal tubes designed to hold a removable rechargeable battery, and have a power switch and atomizer connector, and some type of control button (or buttons) to vary, or change, the power output or voltage that the battery provides. Within is some type of electrical processor which boosts the power output to the atomizer. Because of the use of heavier grade materials to allow for more durability and the fact that the only disposable part is the removable batteries, technically these are not considered to be disposable and can be expected to last more into the years category, as opposed to months like the ego variety. These use larger batteries, and hense longer vape time between battery charges. When the battery dies, you remove it and put in another, vaping continues. Vape times between battery changes vary from 9 to 19 hours, although it is not uncommon to hear people say an 18650 battery can last them up to two full days.

There are economical differences between the two classes of PVs. The ego variety, being it is a disposable, can be purchased for under $30. Once the battery is no longer able to take a recharge, it must be thrown away.

The tube mods, because of the more durable parts and construction, cost more; generally starting around $40 and on up into the hundreds depending upon manufactured refinements, materials used, special electronics and other features. Only the rechargeable batteries are disposable, with an expected lifetime of one year, generally speaking, and costing between $6-14 each.

With that said, let the fun begin...

 

[kiwivap]

One advantage for the mods is that you just replace the batteries you use in them - and those are not very expensive. With the KGO or Ego once it dies you have to toss the whole thing and buy another. Life expectancy on Egos is estimated 4-9 months. A well built mod like a Provari should last a few years.
I'm not plugging one kind over another (I don't own a Provari) - but those are the advantages of mods.

The advantage of pvs like KGOs or twists is that they are cheaper to start off with.
The KGO has a higer vv range than the twist btw.

 

[peraspera]

My sincere apologies if my questions are stirring the pot but I promise I asked because I'm really that confused. I greatly appreciate the patient, beginning-level replies. I'm beginning to strongly suspect that things won't entirely get through my thick-headedness without me physically trying them.

The price difference between the disposables and tube models still rather baffles me. However, I ordered 3 Twists today. The advertised voltage levels for the KGOs make me a bit nervous about battery safety so I'll wait to try those once they have been out for awhile.

I'm on the waiting list for a VARIO but haven't completely decided between that and the Provari although I'm leaning quite heavily to the VARIO. I'm a huge admirer of great design and build quality but the speed with which the technology seems to be changing leaves me very focused on potential obsolesce where value is concerned.

I was mainly interested in trying different things to see what works best for me but after the explanations I very much see a place in my life for my current Green Smoke cig-alikes, variable voltage disposables and the tube-types.

I'll use the cig-alikes when out and about. I live in a very conservative community and don't wish to potentially offend anyone by carrying anything that resembles drug paraphernalia. Also, having a cigarette between my fingers is a habit associated with smoking. I've been using that habit as a helpful security blankie for quitting. I'll keep one in my pocket or purse until I'm sure I don't need that crutch any more.

I'll use a tube-type variable at my desk and the the variable disposables at home elsewhere. It surely isn't hard to see how vaping can quickly turn into an expensive hobby.

 

[kiwivap]

I'll use the cig-alikes when out and about. I live in a very conservative community and don't wish to potentially offend anyone by carrying anything that resembles drug paraphernalia. Also, having a cigarette between my fingers is a habit associated with smoking. I've been using that habit as a helpful security blankie for quitting. I'll keep one in my pocket or purse until I'm sure I don't need that crutch any more.

I'll use a tube-type variable at my desk and the the variable disposables at home elsewhere. It surely isn't hard to see how vaping can quickly turn into an expensive hobby.

I've been vaping 5 months and still use my minis when I'm out and about. I use my bigger X2 at home - although I did recently take it to work. Having a selection of sizes is great in my view as you have something for each situation.

 

[Thugjustice]

Let's not forget about mechanical mods ladies and gents.

For those that don't know, a mechanical mod uses a mechanical switch like that of the empire or the legacy, which is what I rock. The advantages to a mechanical switch that there are very few parts. Mainly a spring, a contact screw and some finally designed metal parts.

As opposed to electrical switches which can fault if juice drips into the electrical circuits. Most mods with an electrical are well insulated but the possibility is there. If that happens then the mod is essentially done.

I rock my legacy mini from puresmoker.com and sometimes grab my twist for VV.

Now understand that the legacy mini is a 3.7 device, UNLESS you use a kick. It's not variable voltage but with using a kick it is variable wattage,

And that's a whole different thread.

Good luck and all hail the legacy

 

[MiamiMom63]

Peraspera, you have made a very intelligent question. lol. My friend and I were just discussing this same information over dinner earlier tonight. She has the ego twists and is fairly new to vaping. I have to admit I have 2 Provaris. What I have worried about is the stress on the batteries and I don't see a vent hole on the Ego Twists. I have vaguely heard others sort of worry about it. Now, I'm no expert or engineer but safety is my biggest concern. That's not to say they are not safe, by any means. It's just my little old self making me worry over stressing out a smaller battery to get the most vape. Recently I have seen the KGO's are having a vv mod that goes up to 6v. Wow. I would be a little nervous vaping high voltage on it. But that's just me personally and I highly recommend KGO's for newbs that I have turned onto vaping. But I'm not the most educated person on these matters so don't listen to me.

 

[MiamiMom63]

This I do know, Provari's have alot of safety features. Mine has shut off on me more than once due to too high a voltage on my ailing atomizer, etc. I like safety features in a mod and at least a vent hole I can visibly see.

 

[MiamiMom63]

Now this might sound bad or cause a rukus, but I studied my friends Ego Twist tonight and I do NOT see any vent holes. Isn't that sort of supposed to be important? I dunno. Just my thoughts but don't listen to me because I'm not trained on this stuff. lol.

 

[rondasherrill]

Also, cheaper VV mods tend to suffer a "voltage sag". As in, You set it to say, 5v, but when the resistance of the atomizer is taken into account, it drops to 4.6-4.8v... Higher end mods like the Provari don't suffer that sag. What you set is what you get. Also, mods like the Provari have basically a full set of multimeter functions.

eGo's are extremely thin bodied... In the event of a catastrophic failure, it will vent from the end where the voltage dial is.

The thin bodied thing is another reason for the price difference actually. The higher end mods are built to take a beating...

 

[MiamiMom63]

Yea, it's called something like pulse width modulator? I forget the term. Some mods like Provari and others that have it, you get the full vape then the batt dies without weakening, whereas other mods tend to lose the umph as the battery slowly dies down and you slowly start getting weaker vapes. I do think it sounds sensible that even though there is no vent hole that Ego Twists must have a failure safety of some sort, especially if vaping at high voltage. Honestly, I probably would have gotten and Ego Twist when I started vaping because of the price. They weren't around when I started.

 

[*deleon517*]

Now this might sound bad or cause a rukus, but I studied my friends Ego Twist tonight and I do NOT see any vent holes. Isn't that sort of supposed to be important? I dunno. Just my thoughts but don't listen to me because I'm not trained on this stuff. lol.

i personally use the larger mods(lavatube, Darwin, even tried out a provari) now mods that have a removable battery its a absolute must to have at least one good vent hole. as far as the twist is concerned its technically not a mod, as its a ego with a boost chip. there for no removable battery that could vent.

yes the same battery issues with a removable battery can happen with a ego but its very slim chances. my boge revolution v2 (wetbox) has no removable battery and still holds a 1600 mah charge, which is the same amount of mah as most mod's that have kits with batteries sold in them.

haven't touched the Darwin in a long time as its the wife's favorite APV but im pretty sure there is no vent hole either.... feel free to correct me if im wrong. as i have only used it for may 2 hours max when she wasn't looking.

edit: from a very reliable source with access to a darwin, yes its vented... like i said i dont use it so i wasnt entirely sure.

 

[MiamiMom63]

Now that is interesting for me to learn, the Darwin has no vent hole. hmmm. OMG. You are a hell of a hubby to have if you don't touch her Darwin! lol. BTW, deleon, we do vape meets in South Florida and I realize you are in South Florida?

 

[*deleon517*]

Now that is interesting for me to learn, the Darwin has no vent hole. hmmm. OMG. You are a hell of a hubby to have if you don't touch her Darwin! lol. BTW, deleon, we do vape meets in South Florida and I realize you are in South Florida?

yes im very aware of the meets... sadly i work weekends and we are short staffed. would love to go, as i was always able to make the nyc and long island ones. but different job different schedule. funny how i can make it to vapestock but not to the smaller ones right in my own back yard. well maybe one of these meets i can make it too soon. hopefully before holiday season starts but most likely not till after.

 

[tj99959]

i personally use the larger mods(lavatube, Darwin, even tried out a provari) now mods that have a removable battery its a absolute must to have at least one good vent hole. as far as the twist is concerned its technically not a mod, as its a ego with a boost chip. there for no removable battery that could vent.

WHOA Hold on there. There most certenly is a battery cell inside that little eGo that can vent just like any other Li Ion battery!
The bottom of the ego bat pops out if the battery vents becomming a big vent hole.

Now watch this vid and note how the battery swells, and where it first vents. Then tell me what good a vent hole in the bottom of a mod is.
Lithium Ion Battery Explosion - YouTube
If you look at a battery, there are vent holes in the positive terminal. That's where the PV needs to vent.

 

[rondasherrill]

Now that is interesting for me to learn, the Darwin has no vent hole. hmmm. OMG. You are a hell of a hubby to have if you don't touch her Darwin! lol. BTW, deleon, we do vape meets in South Florida and I realize you are in South Florida?

eGo's actually do have a 14500 li-ion battery inside them, but of course they are non-removeable. In any case, the end of the eGo will blow out, as it is the weakest point, so that it safely vents away from you.

Mods like the Darwin with a non-removeable battery don't need a separate vent hole, because in the case of a battery venting, the gases will go right out of the micro-usb charging port.

 

[MiamiMom63]

Ahh, okay. I understand. I can't help reaching out when I come across fellow So. Floridians. So excuse me. I sent you a message about our meets because I wasn't sure if you knew about it. I hope your schedule permits it for you sometime

 

[mrelwood]

The price difference between the disposables and tube models still rather baffles me.

I believe one major factor could be the fact that the Twist and the like are relatively new products. They did stir the markets quite a bit in my mind, and the Provari and the likes may still be riding their pre-Twist reign. Like computer memory sticks, old 666MHz sticks cost a lot more than newer 1066MHz sticks. Don't beat me on this, but this kind of behavior has been seen on other markets.

I don't think I wouldn't buy a Provari even if they cost the same as eGo Twist. The size is just way too large for me. I was a bit juvenile when I started as I insisted on the short 510 size. Didn't take long to jump to the eGo size, but the 650mAh Twist is still too long to be comfortable, so I use the regular 650mAh eGo-C also. Not a huge difference, but it is quite a bit more pocketable.

 

[*deleon517*]

WHOA Hold on there. There most certenly is a battery cell inside that little eGo that can vent just like any other Li Ion battery!
The bottom of the ego bat pops out if the battery vents becomming a big vent hole.

Now watch this vid and note how the battery swells, and where it first vents. Then tell me what good a vent hole in the bottom of a mod is.
Lithium Ion Battery Explosion - YouTube
If you look at a battery, there are vent holes in the positive terminal. That's where the PV needs to vent.

love how you used half my post, if you just simply read a little further, i did happen to mention that its entirely possible for non removable batteries like that of the ego to have the same issues and vent. however it is very less likely to happen. thus there are no vent holes on a ego style battery. NOT THAT IT COULDNT HAPPEN.

 

[Baditude]

I don't think I wouldn't buy a Provari even if they cost the same as eGo Twist. The size is just way too large for me. I was a bit juvenile when I started as I insisted on the short 510 size. Didn't take long to jump to the eGo size, but the 650mAh Twist is still too long to be comfortable, so I use the regular 650mAh eGo-C also. Not a huge difference, but it is quite a bit more pocketable.

View attachment 132977
Disregarding the admittedly long tank, is the Provari with extension cap REALLY that big?

View attachment 132979
Ego Twist vs Provari