Variable Voltage vs. Variable Wattage: Which is better and why?
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Really the math thing is nuts. Numbers are at best approximate when it comes to vape taste and feel. Trial and error with a knob is faster, more satisfying, and ultimately simpler. I have several VV devices and I also have a kick. So, I have used both. I never ever monitor the resistance of my atomizer unless the knob position is getting way off normal and I think something's wrong. If I'm not getting enough, bump it up a bit. If it's too hot, turn it down a little. I can do it with my eyes closed. I'll also say right now that those that think watts are all that matters are only right in theory. In practice you'll find it's different. Differences like the surface area of the coils which varies between LR, SR and HR cannot be discounted. Those that promote this theory ignore facts like that. I had the opportunity to experience this difference today.
I polish my VV Woodvil on the weekends. The polish I use recommends that you leave it on for 45 mins before wiping it off. I have two sides to polish so call it a couple hours total. I had set up my kick with a 2.5 ohm 901 with the same juice but, today I was trying out a 1.5 ohm 306. Same watts though. That's all that matters right? I put the 306 on it and it was okay. A little harsh though. I really wanted to turn it down a bit but, nooooooo. I would have to pull the mod apart get a screwdriver and start adjusting by trial and error. Numbers wouldn't help. All I knew was that I didn't like the watts I was getting. I didn't know the watts I wanted. I didn't bother. Instead I just kept it flooded but, I really missed my knob. Next time I'll use my Madvapes VV box. It has a knob.
The thing is watts will get you close to where you want to be but, they won't quite get you there. That takes taste and feel. You can't get there with numbers.
I polish my VV Woodvil on the weekends. The polish I use recommends that you leave it on for 45 mins before wiping it off. I have two sides to polish so call it a couple hours total. I had set up my kick with a 2.5 ohm 901 with the same juice but, today I was trying out a 1.5 ohm 306. Same watts though. That's all that matters right? I put the 306 on it and it was okay. A little harsh though. I really wanted to turn it down a bit but, nooooooo. I would have to pull the mod apart get a screwdriver and start adjusting by trial and error. Numbers wouldn't help. All I knew was that I didn't like the watts I was getting. I didn't know the watts I wanted. I didn't bother. Instead I just kept it flooded but, I really missed my knob. Next time I'll use my Madvapes VV box. It has a knob.
The thing is watts will get you close to where you want to be but, they won't quite get you there. That takes taste and feel. You can't get there with numbers.
How does one define "superior"? As was stated previously, it IS completely subjective; ecigs/PV's are about kicking a bad habit. Period. Someone likes to fiddle with their device to find their "it" setting... someone else doesn't want to do that. Still others are completely satisfied with a 5v model, or a 3.7 model, or a 6.4, or a 7.4... who gives a ....., so long as you get what you need and it doesn't blow up in your face? Things aren't that complicated unless you want them to be.
Why do you think there are so many different types of tanks, cartos, atomizers, PV's... there is no one "best". Everyone has different wants and/or needs, the choices out there will satisfy anyone. I have what I like, you all have what you like and that's all there is to it.
Why do you think there are so many different types of tanks, cartos, atomizers, PV's... there is no one "best". Everyone has different wants and/or needs, the choices out there will satisfy anyone. I have what I like, you all have what you like and that's all there is to it.
There is the opus which also does if I am not mistaken, it has the dna inside. We should see a lot more soon.
I've read several mod makers saying they've ordered dna chips to experiment with. The greatest benefit in the modders eyes seems to be the size. One of the threads that caught my attention recently was in the REO sub forum. He says it looks like he can make a REO Mini sized feeder with the DNA chip. If vape time between charge cycles is good, I'll be looking forward to owning one.
Yep, I think the Variable Wattage DNA chip will be integrated into alot of mods, even tube mods....it's fun to see how vaping keeps evolving as time goes by.....only makes for a better vaping experience....
If the DNA is like the kick, the battery life is going to stink. I get between 4 and 5 hours on an 18650. That might be why the Darwin uses proprietary batteries. It may be that it was the only way to get reasonable battery life.
If the DNA is like the Darwin, it will be an excellent upgrade for the GOOD MOD Makers out there....many are looking at it right now.
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This is why I don't have much to say about my kick. I've had it for a while, and I'm not completely pleased with it. I think it's a great idea, but I really expected much better efficiency. At 9w, I can't quite consume the juice in an XL sized carto (less than ~2ml) using an 1100 mah 18490. For comparison, the notcigs buck regulator allows me to consume ~5ml of juice using a pair of 550 mah 16340s while producing around 11w (just for those readers who really want to know the wattage numbers).
Breaktru has had a little bit to say about his experiments with the dna.
I never mentioned minute changes in resistance during use. I've specifically said that the benefit is when you change to a different atty. Just because an atty is rated at 3.0 ohms or 1.5 ohms, that doesn't mean any particular atty that comes out of manufacturing will meter at that exact resistance. For example, the 1.5 ohm atty I have that actually meters at 1.2 ohms. At 3.7 volts that's a difference of 2.3 watts. That's huge in terms of heat level.
Exactly my point. Yes, you can achieve the same results with VV, but you've got to meter and do the math or go the trial and error route.
Again my point as to why VW provides a better user experience. It gets you thinking in terms of the number that's more useful to determining your vaping experience.
I can't argue with more satisfying, but faster and simpler? With VW, remember a number, dial it it. Done.
I already covered this above. I remember a wattage setting for each atty + juice combo, and not just for a flavor regardless of what atty or carto I'm using.
Honestly, I never expected this sort of heated debate or I wouldn't have started this thread. Providing good user experience is a huge part of what I do for a living. To me, the advantage is as clear as day, and I provided a reasoned opinion based on a decade and a half of working with these concepts. I have no doubt that in several years time VW will be the dominant technology in the variable APV market.
In any event, I've made my case and am just rehashing the same explanations now. It's up to future readers of this thread to sort through the comments and make their own decision.
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As it so happens, something like what you initially mentioned, happened to me the other week. I always buy and use 3.0 ohm cartos for my tanks. I put one in the other week, and WTH? My Provari was giving me error messages! So I checked the ohms resist on the new carto, and it was 1.5 ohm. I adjusted my volts down and keep on vaping! I think it's great that things in the vaping world are ever evolving. And I also look for everyone to go with VW instead of VV, I'm just glad I've got the Provari, so I could find out what was wrong and fix it.
I've seen many threads like yours go SOUTH because the nay-sayers show up...sad, but true....people who read this thread can decide for themselves.....your points were well taken....oh well...it is what it is....2 years from now we will be discussing another new technology.....have a great day....
I own 3 Provaris and some Kicks... The problem is as Attys get used they change resistance... The Provari does allow me to check the ohms, then I do the math to adjust voltage to stay in the same wattage area I like to vape at.. With WW it adjust itself to the resistance to give you the same vape... Set it-and forget it... WW is the best IMO........ We just need one built that is available and has a battery that the user can change themself........
The purpose of a forum is for discussion. If it were just for statements, it would be different.
In this particular case, the OP said VW is superior and here's why... and some people agreed and some people disagreed. That's how discussions work. If only people who agree with a post were allowed to respond, then it would be just an echo chamber.
For me, the idea that VW is superior to VV is just sort of silly since they are the same thing. Evolv's implementation of VW doesn't strike me as completely revolutionary.
The OP says that if I don't use VW, I must have to do math every time I vape... and that's just not true. he uses a wheel to adjust for flavor and throat hit. I use a wheel to adjust for flavor and throat hit. There is no functional difference. Both you and the OP have told me in this thread that as a VV user I have to "fiddle" with this and that, when in fact, I really don't. When I point out the fact that you've misunderstood some feature available with a VV device, I become a "naysayer".
The one and only indisputable benefit would be being able to swap to different ohm attys or cartos and remaining at the same power output... but the fact is, I'm unlikely to change attys or cartos so often that I would have a great need for such a feature... and the likelihood is that the majority of people aren't changing attys and cartos all that often. And when they do, even though there are quality control problems sometimes and even though once and a while a vendor will ship the wrong product, it certainly isn't like the majority of cartos and attys are outside their advertized specification.
No one likes to be wrong. And, it is human nature to want others to experience the same thing you have when you find something you think is better than what someone else is using. There's nothing wrong with that. -- Assuming people are trying to be mean and force a thread to "GO SOUTH" on the other hand... well, there is something wrong with that. Read responses in monotone. They were probably written that way unless there are all caps, bold type, or emoticons to indicate otherwise.
Continuing to follow this thread continually reminds me of an old Monty Python skit related to Arguments.
Which is better? Well, which do you prefer? That would be the "better" one. For you. Which may or may not be the same for me, or for someone else.
In other words, who cares? Just use something.
Or am I missing something something deeper?
Which is better? Well, which do you prefer? That would be the "better" one. For you. Which may or may not be the same for me, or for someone else.
In other words, who cares? Just use something.
Or am I missing something something deeper?
Don't forget the point that Mickeyrat made. Coil type and configuration has an effect as well. A 2.0 ohm Vision clearo tastes and hits differently than a 2.0 ohm dual coil DCT carto or a 2ohm Boge. Each has a noticeably different feel to it.
I think it's not so much a Mac vs PC as much as it is a HP vs Dell type debate. One user remembers watts the other remembers volt settings. They're both just numbers.
After all, it is just an ecig/mod/apv, not a religion. Well, it may be a religion for the Provangelists
I think it's not so much a Mac vs PC as much as it is a HP vs Dell type debate. One user remembers watts the other remembers volt settings. They're both just numbers.
After all, it is just an ecig/mod/apv, not a religion. Well, it may be a religion for the Provangelists
More than once, but the first was here:
As a VV user, I don't need to do any math. I turn a wheel just like you do. Why it is you feel a need to memorize some numbers remains a mystery to me. Except when testing new gear or metering something to answer a specific question in some particular discussion or perhaps to describe an experience with a particular device for the purposes of a discussion thread, I don't generally have any reason to care what resistance my atty is or what the wattage output is. I tune it for VTF and vape. I turn a wheel to find what tastes and feels right. - When I used my buddy's provari for a few days, I didn't turn a wheel, but I did push a button a few times. Again, it's the same thing - warmer or cooler.
It's important for me to be clear about one thing: I'm not anti-VW. As I've mentioned, I own a VW device. It works OK (lacks efficiency but otherwise operates as expected). I've also said in this thread that I intend to buy another VW device when it comes (provided efficiency is improved over the current VW device I own).
The premise for your assertion of VW being superior to was stated
which was followed by a hypothetical pair of test subjects and and two tests. In the second test, your hypotheticals included the idea that the VV user would be unaware and unable to compensate for the change you injected in to the experiment. That's when you determined the test could only complete to a reasonable user experience for the VV user if that VV user is a mathematician and master of ohms law formulas. That's where you lost me. I'm still struggling to understand why the VV user was unable to turn a wheel a little bit. ---> And, that's what led to my assumptions that you and I must vape much differently than one another... but it turns out that we both turn a wheel a little bit, press a button, and inhale.
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