Viscosity vs Rate of Consumption

[011COACH]

So I've been DIY'ing with 84%vg/15%flavor/1%nic. At this ratio I would get dry hits from time to time so I started cutting with DW @ 79%vg/15%flavor/1%nic+5%dw to increase flow rate. At this new ratio (albeit with better vapor & flavor) my consumption has drastically increased. It has practically doubled since adding the dw.

I'm still relatively new to all this but, is this the norm for a thinner sauce? I have noticed slight differences in consumption with different resistance coils but nothing this drastic. I've read many threads where the purpose of thinning is for better wicking properties but no mention of the increased consumption. Has anyone had a similar experience???

 

[cassandraschild]

I have noticed that when I cape my 70/30 pg/vg it does seem to go a lot faster than when I try for very high vg mixes. I wish I had the reason why. I suspect it has something to do with density of the liquid ie more viscosity usually equals higher density. But that is just an assumption I can't back up.

 

[011COACH]

I have noticed that when I cape my 70/30 pg/vg it does seem to go a lot faster than when I try for very high vg mixes. I wish I had the reason why. I suspect it has something to do with density of the liquid ie more viscosity usually equals higher density. But that is just an assumption I can't back up.

It seems logical that the less friction there is, the faster the flow will be. I'm no expert in fluid dynamics either, but hopefully a physicist will chime in...

 

[MissAmerican]

I'm not sure about this one either. Even though i make my juices 50/50 i always run out of VG waaay faster than i do with the PG.

 

[graffinfected]

So I've been DIY'ing with 84%vg/15%flavor/1%nic. At this ratio I would get dry hits from time to time so I started cutting with DW @ 79%vg/15%flavor/1%nic+5%dw to increase flow rate. At this new ratio (albeit with better vapor & flavor) my consumption has drastically increased. It has practically doubled since adding the dw.

I'm still relatively new to all this but, is this the norm for a thinner sauce? I have noticed slight differences in consumption with different resistance coils but nothing this drastic. I've read many threads where the purpose of thinning is for better wicking properties but no mention of the increased consumption. Has anyone had a similar experience???

evaporation?... maybe?

im only talking about the DW though. PG and VG does not evaporate..

if you leave a drop of pg and another drop of vg on a table it wont go away because they both absorb moisture from the atmosphere. either than or it just spreads everywhere if your don't wipe it up.

im trying to think about why you get dry hits when you mix all that vg though.. it could be the coils are running hot and it just heats up your liquid faster than your juice gets wicked.

vg and pg have a higher boiling point than water does.. ( if my memory serves me right)... if you put a bottle of pg or vg in the microwave for 5 - 10 seconds it gets hot.. I measn real hot and much thinner than its regular state. I agree it would be a pain in the .... to heat up your liquid everytime before you stick it in a tank.. and either way it will thicken up eventually also.. maybe its the wick your using???


I have had the exact opposite happen to me because when I use vg juices its only for dripping onto my RDA. so the vg juices go wwaaayyy quicker than my regular juices.

 

[Whiplash]

@011COACH
I fought the viscosity problem for months. Finally measured a well-known commercial joose and worked up a close viscosity match. No more flow problems or leaking problems. For 100% VG recipe - 10% DW, for 60% VG - 6% DW, for 40% - 4% . . . Works well for me. As for increased consumption, didn't notice any change (i do keep track of it).

 

[011COACH]

im trying to think about why you get dry hits when you mix all that vg though.. it could be the coils are running hot and it just heats up your liquid faster than your juice gets wicked.

My point exactly. The thicker (vg) juice doesn't wick fast enough. However, when I add a bit of dw, I run through joose like it's going out of style.

Anyway, after some experimenting, Whiplash might be on to something (see above).

 

[011COACH]

I'm not sure about this one either. Even though i make my juices 50/50 i always run out of VG waaay faster than i do with the PG.

This is what is confusing me. Are you sure that VG runs out faster, or did you mean PG? VG is thicker than PG. You know that, right?

To me, the thinner the sauce is, the faster I go through the stuff....

 

[hmlessalky]

I totally understand what is being talked about. I DIY as close to full VG as possible (usually comes out to 85% after non-VG based flavors), yet I still have a few old staples I can't seem to replicate that I go through so fast since they are much more PG heavy. That is why I have moved to the point of only using delivery devices I can tweak or rebuild myself. Off the shelf many do great with my bought juices, but fail miserably with my DIY juices. So I do what ever is needed to open them up to allow better flow. Now if I mess up and switch the juices it can get messy (or yucky)!

I have tried diluting my blends, but they just never seem the same afterwards. Don't know why though.

Good luck with your quest to figure out the perfect solution!

 

[011COACH]

I totally understand what is being talked about. I DIY as close to full VG as possible (usually comes out to 85% after non-VG based flavors), yet I still have a few old staples I can't seem to replicate that I go through so fast since they are much more PG heavy. That is why I have moved to the point of only using delivery devices I can tweak or rebuild myself. Off the shelf many do great with my bought juices, but fail miserably with my DIY juices. So I do what ever is needed to open them up to allow better flow. Now if I mess up and switch the juices it can get messy (or yucky)!

I have tried diluting my blends, but they just never seem the same afterwards. Don't know why though.

Good luck with your quest to figure out the perfect solution!

Finally someone who gets it! What did it take? Almost a month? lol -- I too have a few "delivery devices" ie. KFL, Protank2, & 510 atties.

Now maybe I'm getting a little off topic, but have you tried increasing the flavor percentage to compensate for the lack of pg as a carrier when trying to clone those old staples?

 

[hmlessalky]

Finally someone who gets it! What did it take? Almost a month? lol -- I too have a few "delivery devices" ie. KFL, Protank2, & 510 atties.

Now maybe I'm getting a little off topic, but have you tried increasing the flavor percentage to compensate for the lack of pg as a carrier when trying to clone those old staples?

Yes, I had to up my flavor to 15-20% using VG as opposed to the same flavor profile using PG where I stayed closer to 10%. It did make a difference in the flavor being there, I just couldn't duplicate the flavor profiles of the juices I was trying to duplicate! I was able to get a few down, but some seem like they used some magic to get that flavor. But I like the fact that VG tends to give more of a 'cloud' as opposed to PG, so, even if it isn't delivering more nicotine, it just makes me FEEL more satisfied, even if it is only a mind thing!

You have a few good candidates for building for VG juice though. I use all my PT/eVod/PT2/MPT heads, usually after removing one of the 'flavor wicks' with my bought juices. Once they start to head south, I rebuild them much looser to accommodate my VG juices. I either use a few strands of thin ( 1 or 2mm, not exactly sure which one; I bought a big spool so long ago!) silica or some pretty thick hemp to rebuild them. The hemp expands nicely to fill the gaps, and wicks almost too much. I just fill in any visible gaps with the silica, after moistening it up, with whatever bits and pieces I have laying around. And I may have to adjust it here or there, but I can usually get it wicking adequately after a few tries (if I am lucky, none at all).

I don't have a KFL, but I have a 3.1 clone, and it is a bit finicky to get to work properly with the thick juice. I seem to get it going fine if I tighten up the draw, but then I am not happy with the draw as much! I am waiting on a TF clone and hoping to get it dialed in with the thicker juice, since it is more like a traditional bottom feeder than the KF. If I ever find the one that works, I may just go crazy and actually buy a real deal! How do you like the KFL?

So yes, I understand. The thing that is kind of frustrating to me is when I give a new creation to someone to try, not thinking about how it will work in their setup. I love the flavor, but they say it is nasty. Then I figure it out, but by then it is too late! Oh, how can you say my blueberry waffles is nasty? Oh yeah....

 

[JeremyR]

Op - I noticed that for sure. I acidentally cut my store bought vg and 100 vg nic mix with 10% water ,stupidly I made 3 30ml bottles like that. I was burning thought it like crazy. Reduced flavor & th too. I normally use 3-5% and its good but I'm going to start using less water. The heavier vg seems to gold around the coil better. I was getting dry hits more w/ 10% water as it seems to evaporate faster. Of course the percentage depends on your vg. Some are like molasses, some not so much. So I ended up splitting them and adding vg/ nic mix & flavor to bring it to 5%... Much better!

 

[011COACH]

...but some seem like they used some magic to get that flavor.

Magic you say? I stumbled across this thread earlier. I'm playing around with some of those suggestions now. Apparently getting the pH right has an effect on flavor/smoothness.

...How do you like the KFL?

I've had it about 3 months now and so far I really like it. When built correctly they don't leak and hit like a truck. And the flavor, oooh the flavor! Really thick juices sometimes have trouble wicking fast enough to keep up, hence my original question. I've found that after I thinned out my liquid a bit, I tend to burn though it a lot faster. You can even tighten the draw, albeit slightly, by using the "navy nest" method when re-wicking. I do believe this has more to do with decreasing the volume of the chimney more than anything though. Although I use cotton wicks with microcoils (28g, 1/16th, 10wrap, @ 1.3ohms) the same principal applies.

 

[hmlessalky]

I am not so sure it is pH as much as it is a very good mixologist with a much larger selection of flavors, and a heck of a lot more patience, than I have!

My KF clones have been doing very well for me. I may not use exactly the same method of stuffing the chamber, but it is also very full on my builds as well. I have been using hemp though lately; it seems to be a bit more forgiving than cotton was, and it wicks almost too well! Only problem is, no matter how much you clean/boil it, you can taste it for about the 1st 1/2 tank. Not a bad taste, just noticeable. I may have to pick up a KFL clone to try as well. Been looking at the real-deal, and I just don't have that kind of liquid cash right now. The kids do expect SOMETHING for Christmas!

Salky