Voltage & Atomizer size How they affect flavor and vape

[jpf566]

OK I have read a lot on this topic (im still a noob, sorry) and seem to have come across some conflicting statements…Ive heard some people say the larger type ecigs (the ones that look like a big metal pipe with a cigarette sticking out of it) Provide much better vapor and awesome flavor than the smaller guys (ciagarette size) But I have also read that higher voltage batteries can get too hot and ruin the flavor.. ?

So whats the truth? And whats the difference? What will I get the most flavor and vape from? Do those larger e-cigs have a larger atomizer or are they just larger because of the battery? I don’t need to vape for a super long time.. so I would prefer the smaller form factor ecigz, but if they don’t produce good tasting or a good quantity of vapor than I guess I don’t want them. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Hagbard Jones]

Look at the fine print of the post. Does the person seem to advertise the model when the suggest it is great or do they tend to tell you why and how it is better? Start there. I think you will find a 510 of any make or model is the preferred model of many users even the old timers. Yet there is NO right answer as each person will use each and every model differently and have different taste buds with juice.

 

[martha1014]

IMO the mods in the 3.7 and 6.0 volt gives a stronger throat hit and more vapor. They are a little bigger than the regular 510 but are well worth it.

There are so many being sold and you will get a different answer from everybody about which one is best.

 

[Kuya Dave]

ok anything over 5v you need a hv atty.
2nd the bigger units have larger batteries
Standard kits are average 3.2v
while mods are generally 3.7v some are 3.6v

I have the indulgence for my battery mod from ecigsupply & it works great for all my needs.
I use a 401 & do not care for 510 & 901.
I get better flavor on most juices & more vape with my 401. at 3.7v

It's mostly preference. As I would suggest the indulgence for a beginner over a kit. because you get more variety & longer run time.
buy atties & carts for 401 510 801 & carto's 808d so you get a variety & know the differences. as we each feel differently about each 1.

 

[kaji]

I will give this a shot as this was a very confusing topic for me when I first started vaping, I bought things that I shouldn't have without knowing exactly how they affected my vaping experience.

It all comes down to wattage. Watts is heat and with different amounts of heat your liquid will vaporize differently. The reason you are seeing conflicting information is because your heat (watts) can vary with different combinations of hardware and there is a range threshold that most people typically shot for to achieve "optimal" performance (flavor, vapor production, vapor warmth, TH, etc). Most feel that between 8-10w is optimal.

So how do you control watts? By adjusting volts and ohms (resistance) with different hardware. Here is a chart that lists voltages and atomizer resistances, both are used to calculate watts. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/71422-atomizer-battery-watts-chart.html

So just raising volts may not get you the desired results. For an example, lets say you have a standard 510 atomizer. Here are some numbers based on a standard 510 atomizer at different voltages:

Standard joye atty (2.3Ω - 2.5Ω)
3.7V=5.95w
5V=10.9w
6V=15.7w
7.4V=23.8w

At true 3.7v (most off the shelf pen and mini style ecigs do not run at true 3.7v and will lower watts even further, see here for more information: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/joye-510/65055-battery-voltages-surprise.html), is well below the 8-10w sweet spot and at 6v you are well above it. However at 5v, its right on the mark and this is why lots of people felt that 5v is where they preferred to vape.

However, in addition to adjusting volts, we can also control ohms, this can be done by using different resistance atomizers. So here are some other numbers using HV (high voltage) atomizers that have higher resistance than the standard 510. You can commonly find 4.5Ω and 5.2Ω resistors, here are some 4.5 numbers.

4.5Ω HV atty
3.7V=3.04
5V=5.6w
6V=8w
7.4V=12.2w

Now 3.7v is far below the 8-10w threshold and 5v is now just above the watts as a 3.7v with a standard atomizer, however 6v is now within the threshold. So what is all this hype about Low resistance atomizers? Well here are the numbers:

1.5Ω LR atty
3.1V(torneGo) =6.4W
3.7V=9.1W
5V=16.7W
6V=24W
7.4V=36.5W

With those you can get to the 8-10w range but do so at 3.7v. Infact it puts you slightly higher in watts versus a 6v setup with a HV atomizer.

Please keep in mind that I did not come up with the sweet spot range and have only followed what more experienced people have recommended and by doing so, it has greatly improved my vaping experience.

Hope this helps, I know if I understood this more when I first started that I probably could of saved lots of money as I bought backup atomizers, batteries, etc. that I rarely use now.

 

[Kuya Dave]

Good Job Kaji.
I swore I read something else in title thats why I replied the way I did.
but you hit it on the nail with tons of it.

 

[gl00pp]

kaji,

Thanks for the numbers. I have 2 attys from my very first starter kit that work far far better than any of the new 510 attys i recently bought. There is no comparison the new ones suck. It's quite frustrating because I bought so many of them and am still using the first two original ones!

Would stepping up the voltage on the attys that suck make it burn hotter/give more vapor/TH? I can hold the button down on my PT for over a minute and it hits the same......crappy....

or are my bad attys perhaps low resistance?


HELP ill send you some attys if you can figure out a way for me to use them!

also the "good" attys have a sharper point on the bridge like /\ whereas the "bad" attys have a more rounded bridge like /-\.....

I will give this a shot as this was a very confusing topic for me when I first started vaping, I bought things that I shouldn't have without knowing exactly how they affected my vaping experience.

It all comes down to wattage. Watts is heat and with different amounts of heat your liquid will vaporize differently. The reason you are seeing conflicting information is because your heat (watts) can vary with different combinations of hardware and there is a range threshold that most people typically shot for to achieve "optimal" performance (flavor, vapor production, vapor warmth, TH, etc). Most feel that between 8-10w is optimal.

So how do you control watts? By adjusting volts and ohms (resistance) with different hardware. Here is a chart that lists voltages and atomizer resistances, both are used to calculate watts. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/71422-atomizer-battery-watts-chart.html

So just raising volts may not get you the desired results. For an example, lets say you have a standard 510 atomizer. Here are some numbers based on a standard 510 atomizer at different voltages:

Standard joye atty (2.3Ω - 2.5Ω)
3.7V=5.95w
5V=10.9w
6V=15.7w
7.4V=23.8w

At true 3.7v (most off the shelf pen and mini style ecigs do not run at true 3.7v and will lower watts even further, see here for more information: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/joye-510/65055-battery-voltages-surprise.html), is well below the 8-10w sweet spot and at 6v you are well above it. However at 5v, its right on the mark and this is why lots of people felt that 5v is where they preferred to vape.

However, in addition to adjusting volts, we can also control ohms, this can be done by using different resistance atomizers. So here are some other numbers using HV (high voltage) atomizers that have higher resistance than the standard 510. You can commonly find 4.5Ω and 5.2Ω resistors, here are some 4.5 numbers.

4.5Ω HV atty
3.7V=3.04
5V=5.6w
6V=8w
7.4V=12.2w

Now 3.7v is far below the 8-10w threshold and 5v is now just above the watts as a 3.7v with a standard atomizer, however 6v is now within the threshold. So what is all this hype about Low resistance atomizers? Well here are the numbers:

1.5Ω LR atty
3.1V(torneGo) =6.4W
3.7V=9.1W
5V=16.7W
6V=24W
7.4V=36.5W

With those you can get to the 8-10w range but do so at 3.7v. Infact it puts you slightly higher in watts versus a 6v setup with a HV atomizer.

Please keep in mind that I did not come up with the sweet spot range and have only followed what more experienced people have recommended and by doing so, it has greatly improved my vaping experience.

Hope this helps, I know if I understood this more when I first started that I probably could of saved lots of money as I bought backup atomizers, batteries, etc. that I rarely use now.

 

[DC2]

It depends on the juice.

The rule of thumb seems to be that "lighter" flavors like fruit can get overwhelmed at high voltages and that "darker" flavors like tobacco and coffee and such tend to get enhanced by higher voltages.

I can't really say, because I hate all fruity juices.

 

[DC2]

Thanks for the numbers. I have 2 attys from my very first starter kit that work far far better than any of the new 510 attys i recently bought. There is no comparison the new ones suck. It's quite frustrating because I bought so many of them and am still using the first two original ones!

Would stepping up the voltage on the attys that suck make it burn hotter/give more vapor/TH?

You may have gotten higher resistance atomizers.

Did you order High Resistance (HR) atomizers?
Or did you maybe get some SLB atomizers that are also higher resistance?

The 510 SLB atomizers have a little washer below the bridge.
If you have that washer looking thing in there, and you can't miss it, you have an one.

The 510 SLB atomizers run closer to the resistance of the 901 atomizers.

 

[gl00pp]

You may have gotten higher resistance atomizers.

Did you order High Resistance (HR) atomizers?
Or did you maybe get some SLB atomizers that are also higher resistance?

The 510 SLB atomizers have a little washer below the bridge.
If you have that washer looking thing in there, and you can't miss it, you have an one.

The 510 SLB atomizers run closer to the resistance of the 901 atomizers.

They are from a bunch of starter kits I bought just plain old 510 starter kits. Not HR nor SLB. I feel they are just from a different manufacturer than the 2 "good" ones that I have. Problem is I have 40 other starter kits that aren't performing as good, and am getting no response from the site I bought through.

Side note, a lot of people were complaining about a burnt taste / smell in their attys. So much so that a dry burn would actually smoke and fill the room with a electrical / plastic smell. I wonder if my attys are some how stepped down as to avoid the burning by the manufacturer...

I got a 510 starter kit for anyone who can help me resolve my problem.

no washer for sure in either the good attys or the crappier ones.

 

[kaji]

kaji,

Thanks for the numbers. I have 2 attys from my very first starter kit that work far far better than any of the new 510 attys i recently bought. There is no comparison the new ones suck. It's quite frustrating because I bought so many of them and am still using the first two original ones!

Would stepping up the voltage on the attys that suck make it burn hotter/give more vapor/TH? I can hold the button down on my PT for over a minute and it hits the same......crappy....

or are my bad attys perhaps low resistance?


HELP ill send you some attys if you can figure out a way for me to use them!

also the "good" attys have a sharper point on the bridge like /\ whereas the "bad" attys have a more rounded bridge like /-\.....

Wow lots of questions. Let me see if I can help you.

One of the first things I do when I have a atty that seems like it is under performing, is I put a multimeter on it to test the resistance. I use this as a comparison to a atty that I know works well. I also do this when I order new ones so I know what they read brand new. If they are similar, I know that the current going through each should be close and that the watts are in line.

The reason I do this is because, different manufactures have different designs. And these differences (not just resistance), effect how they perform. My Joye510s usually read between 2.3Ω and 2.5Ω. While the ones from SLB and Bauway are usually between 3.2Ω and 3.5Ω.

From your description it seems like you have 510s from different manufactures. My guess is that the ones that are under performing have a higher resistance (probably not genuine joye) than the ones that are performing well (genuine joye that came with your kit). So with a starter kit power source which is typically ~3.1v with a atty made by SLB or Bauway your watts is probably about 2.7-3w compared to 3.8-4.1v with a genuine Joye510. Quite a difference in heat.

So my recommendation would be to find out the resistance of your atties, either use a multimeter (recommended), try to get it from your supplier (not as reliable, since I have ordered 4.5Ω HV atties and have gotten 5.2Ω in the past) or search this forum if you can identify the manufacturer for resistances.

If they are the higher resistance variety, then you are correct that going with a higher voltage should help you get the watts needed for a more satisfying vape.

You also said you tried them on a PT. This is another topic I had to learn the hard way. Not all PTs are 5v. Infact lots of them only run at 3.7v. So while you tried them on a PT, the difference would not be as pronounced as using a true 5v PT or a HV mod if you are infact using a 3.7v PT.

So if you find that your attys are the higher resistance variety, you would have to use higher voltage to get them to perform within the optimal range.

Also make sure when you are doing a comparison to take out as many variables as possible. Drip instead of using carts to test, to make sure the attys are getting enough juice, use the same power source between tests etc.

If you want to try 5v vaping for a relative cheap investment, get a true 5v PT and a AC-to-USB 5v 2amp converter (unless you dont mind potentially blowing your motherboard usb port), it should only cost about $20-$25 for both items. Throw your higher resistance attys on it and vape away.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Also the atomizers I listed above are not sold as HV, they are typically sold as (non joye) replacements. Also make sure to use the same elquid when you are trying to compare them as they will also affect vaping variables.

 

[kaji]

You may have gotten higher resistance atomizers.

Did you order High Resistance (HR) atomizers?
Or did you maybe get some SLB atomizers that are also higher resistance?

The 510 SLB atomizers have a little washer below the bridge.
If you have that washer looking thing in there, and you can't miss it, you have an one.

The 510 SLB atomizers run closer to the resistance of the 901 atomizers.

My thoughts exactly DC2. Sounds like the under performing ones are probably not the 2.3ohm genuine joyetech ones.

 

[redrhino]

 

[gl00pp]

Wow lots of questions. Let me see if I can help you.

One of the first things I do when I have a atty that seems like it is under performing, is I put a multimeter on it to test the resistance. I use this as a comparison to a atty that I know works well. I also do this when I order new ones so I know what they read brand new. If they are similar, I know that the current going through each should be close and that the watts are in line.

The reason I do this is because, different manufactures have different designs. And these differences (not just resistance), effect how they perform. My Joye510s usually read between 2.3Ω and 2.5Ω. While the ones from SLB and Bauway are usually between 3.2Ω and 3.5Ω.

From your description it seems like you have 510s from different manufactures. My guess is that the ones that are under performing have a higher resistance (probably not genuine joye) than the ones that are performing well (genuine joye that came with your kit). So with a starter kit power source which is typically ~3.1v with a atty made by SLB or Bauway your watts is probably about 2.7-3w compared to 3.8-4.1v with a genuine Joye510. Quite a difference in heat.

So my recommendation would be to find out the resistance of your atties, either use a multimeter (recommended), try to get it from your supplier (not as reliable, since I have ordered 4.5Ω HV atties and have gotten 5.2Ω in the past) or search this forum if you can identify the manufacturer for resistances.

If they are the higher resistance variety, then you are correct that going with a higher voltage should help you get the watts needed for a more satisfying vape.

You also said you tried them on a PT. This is another topic I had to learn the hard way. Not all PTs are 5v. Infact lots of them only run at 3.7v. So while you tried them on a PT, the difference would not be as pronounced as using a true 5v PT or a HV mod if you are infact using a 3.7v PT.

So if you find that your attys are the higher resistance variety, you would have to use higher voltage to get them to perform within the optimal range.

Also make sure when you are doing a comparison to take out as many variables as possible. Drip instead of using carts to test, to make sure the attys are getting enough juice, use the same power source between tests etc.

If you want to try 5v vaping for a relative cheap investment, get a true 5v PT and a AC-to-USB 5v 2amp converter (unless you dont mind potentially blowing your motherboard usb port), it should only cost about $20-$25 for both items. Throw your higher resistance attys on it and vape away.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Also the atomizers I listed above are not sold as HV, they are typically sold as (non joye) replacements. Also make sure to use the same elquid when you are trying to compare them as they will also affect vaping variables.

kaji,

thanks so much for your reply. Very helpful. Well my kits are from 20 x Joye510 - Manual Switch Dual Atomizer E-Cig Kits : Wholesale E-Cigarette - China Ruyan Wholesale - Discount Electronic Cigarette Wholesale From China

It was a purchase made after getting my first 510 kit from cignot.
Kind of: "wow this e cig is awesome, i'll sell some to my friends and have a nice stock, better buy bulk"

I need to find a multi-meter.

My problem is I have not only the potentially higher resistance attys but now an equal number of batteries....

I wish there was some kind of mod that allowed me to connect 3 or 4 510 batts and deliver it to 1 (or 2?!) attys....

dream dream....

I will report back or PM you when I find out....

I am still willing to give a free starter kit away for a solution to my trouble.

g

 

[kaji]

Not a problem G. Shoot me a PM when you are able to test their resistance and I can try and help more.

kaji,

thanks so much for your reply. Very helpful. Well my kits are from 20 x Joye510 - Manual Switch Dual Atomizer E-Cig Kits : Wholesale E-Cigarette - China Ruyan Wholesale - Discount Electronic Cigarette Wholesale From China

It was a purchase made after getting my first 510 kit from cignot.
Kind of: "wow this e cig is awesome, i'll sell some to my friends and have a nice stock, better buy bulk"

I need to find a multi-meter.

My problem is I have not only the potentially higher resistance attys but now an equal number of batteries....

I wish there was some kind of mod that allowed me to connect 3 or 4 510 batts and deliver it to 1 (or 2?!) attys....

dream dream....

I will report back or PM you when I find out....

I am still willing to give a free starter kit away for a solution to my trouble.

g

 

[STiCaveman]

kaji,

thanks so much for your reply. Very helpful. Well my kits are from 20 x Joye510 - Manual Switch Dual Atomizer E-Cig Kits : Wholesale E-Cigarette - China Ruyan Wholesale - Discount Electronic Cigarette Wholesale From China

[...]
I am still willing to give a free starter kit away for a solution to my trouble.

g

I've found your problem.

The kits you bought are 510 clones, NOT Joye 510s!

From the web page you linked above:

Additional Information:
This model is the generic version of the Janty Dura. Joye Technology produces Janty's line for them, according to the Joye website. Also known as the Yeti, and the Dura-C, Joye510

The Joye510 is probably the best Electronic Cigarette currently available anywhere in the world, it is the latest in a long line of products from JOYTECH one of the worlds premier designers and manufacturers of Electronic Cigarettes.

Read that ONE sentance at a time.
Only the first 10 words describe their product, the rest is simply "name recognition" spam for ppl not reading carefully.

While you won't have specific info unless you meter the batts/attys, I would say don't bother. The only data that site gives for the hardware, is the standard; "Battery Power: 180mAh Battery can continuously be smoked for 200 inhalations."
Heck, I've seen advertised disposables say; "for 300+ inhalations".

Bottom line- I am betting sub-standard batteries and attomizers combined...
-Caveman

 

[gl00pp]

I've found your problem.

The kits you bought are 510 clones, NOT Joye 510s!

From the web page you linked above:
Read that ONE sentance at a time.
Only the first 10 words describe their product, the rest is simply "name recognition" spam for ppl not reading carefully.

While you won't have specific info unless you meter the batts/attys, I would say don't bother. The only data that site gives for the hardware, is the standard; "Battery Power: 180mAh Battery can continuously be smoked for 200 inhalations."
Heck, I've seen advertised disposables say; "for 300+ inhalations".

Bottom line- I am betting sub-standard batteries and attomizers combined...
-Caveman

Harsh. You are right. I should have done more research. DAMN. Honestly the batteries seem to last just as long as the Joye ones...I wouldn't put too much weight on the number of puffs advertised... But damn....

Well I will meter them...I have to make use of these attys. I gotta get some higher voltage goin' on, even if I pop an atty twice a week. Anything is better than roughin it using these clones after experiencing a Joye. Might be good for beginners....


thanks for pointin that out Caveman

g