Voltage Question

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epresley

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Hi All,
I've been at this a few months and doing a lot of research and experimentation. One thing I cannot figure out is what difference a higher voltage battery makes. I have an ego kit, which I understand to have 3.7v batteries. What would be different for me if I say tried a 6v Prodigy?

Does atty resistance factor into this equation at all?

Thank you, thank you very much,
E
 

BardicDruid

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Atty resistance does factor in, when you increase the voltage, you increase the heat produced by the atty. If you use a low resistance atty on a 6V device the vaper production is going to be great, but over heating the atty that much greatly reduces it's life span. Proprietary type batts like the ones for eGo's or 510's don't have current available to use a low resistance atty, but the mods that use 3.7V high drain batts, like the AW IMR's can handle it without shortening the life span of the atty or batt. With 6V mods most of the regular attys have no trouble, same is true for dual coil atty's.
 

Nomoreash

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You can play with the calculator at the link below which will help in figuring it out, just enter any two values and hit calculate. What your looking for in the end is wattage.

Lower ohms = a hotter vape at the same voltage but it also pulls more current from the battery and due to heating the coils up more will reduce the lifespan of the atty, that's why you don't want to use lr attys at higher voltage plus it would probably be to hot for most of us anyway and risk burning the juice.

You can use higher voltage and higher ohm attys to get the same wattage which pulls less current from the batteries thus making them last longer. The coils in higher ohm attys are also more robust and in general will last longer than a lr atty at the same wattage.

Ohm's Law / Watt's Law Calculator

Also a Ego battery although advertised as a 3.7 battery is regulated to around 3.3 or 3.4 volts. Some Rivas are true 3.7 batteries but they aren't regulated which means the voltage will drop as the batteries are used.
 
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epresley

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Thanks Everyone! I have certainly learned a lot today.

So if I use the calculator, based on nomorerash's assumption of 3.3 volts and my reg res atty at "about" 3 ohms, I'm netting 3.6 watts. No "oomph" at all, which explains a lot. I'm not sure how accurate the 3 ohms part is. That is more a high voltage number. I took it from valuvapors site, which is where I bought these particular DSE-510s.

So if the sweet spot is around 8 watts, I can use a LR atty on my ego batteries, which will drain them more quickly, or I can get the 6v Prodigy with an HR atty which will give me the necessary heat AND better battery life.

Does that sound about right?
 

dormouse

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Ego is not 3.7v
Ego is around 3.4 volts
The new style Riva 510 models at Liberty-Flights.com (an Ego clone) are around 3.7v

Most will go to to 2.0ohm on an Ego. Many will go to 1.7-1.8 ohms (like Cisco LR 306 atty). Very few will go below that. For very low resistance stuff like 1.5 etc most people think you should use a mod with removable industrial type batteries

There is an equation of what volts battery and what ohms atty create how many watts of heat

A high voltage battery is just a different way to create watts of heat. You cannot put LR attys on 6v. 6v is too high. If you want more heat look at variable voltage that covers the range from 3.2v to 5v. Then you can use LR at the low end, standard and crank it to 4.2v or so, HV attys if you want at the high end. The cheapest decent variable voltage would be a plastic box mod w/ 2 14500 batteries. A higher end variable voltage is Provari.

Here is one chart of voltages down the left and ohms across the top
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/71422-atomizer-battery-watts-chart.html
 
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markfm

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4.8 - 5V with 3 ohms -- right around 8W, lots of vapor, nice warmth. When people wonder what HV is like, I suggest trying a true "dumb" passthrough, with 2A USB power supply -- under $25 total (I already have 3 ohm stuff, as an 808 user).
If the PT works well for you, then it's time to look for a 5V mod, or, better yet, a variable voltage, in the future :)
 

Nomoreash

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Thanks Everyone! I have certainly learned a lot today.

So if I use the calculator, based on nomorerash's assumption of 3.3 volts and my reg res atty at "about" 3 ohms, I'm netting 3.6 watts. No "oomph" at all, which explains a lot. I'm not sure how accurate the 3 ohms part is. That is more a high voltage number. I took it from valuvapors site, which is where I bought these particular DSE-510s.

So if the sweet spot is around 8 watts, I can use a LR atty on my ego batteries, which will drain them more quickly, or I can get the 6v Prodigy with an HR atty which will give me the necessary heat AND better battery life.

Does that sound about right?

If you're looking at mods I'm recommend going variable volt. Several aren't that much more expensive than the Prodigy and variable just makes it so much easier. You don't have to worry about what ohm atty/carto your using, just adjust the voltage to your sweet spot. I find it cheaper in the long run also because you're not restricting to buying attys/cartos at certain ohms, find a sale on some, get it, doesn't matter what ohm it is.

The Buzz Pro was just released and isn't that much more. The Infinity Pro will be released soon and is even closer to the Prodigy price point and going up the line you have the Provari and Darwin and several wooden mods with bottom feeders. You also have choices at a lower price point if you want to go with the plastic box mods.
 

bladebarrier

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Lithium Ion batteries, be it in an ego, a riva, an 18650, a stacked set in a 6v mod, are all 3.7 volts nominal, but around 4.1v fully charged.

So here's the fun part about battery longevity... They have a mah value, which is a measurement of it's total capacity, in terms of ma over one hour. The more current you draw the faster it will drain. This is not completely irrelevant to its maximum output capability at any given time. So, a device designed to run at 3.7v will have just as long of a life as the 6v mod equivalent, assuming an equal amount of power is demanded, which will depend on the resistance, as well as the efficiency of converting the voltage.

So, in general, a variable voltage mod will be the least efficient, per mah of the battery, and a small unregulated battery will be the most efficient, but quite possibly sag in voltage, thus not outputting what you ask of it.

So, the resistance of the atty or carto you use will directly modify the drain regardless of what you place it on, unless a device can't supply the maximum output, at which point it drains at a lower rate. If this goes too low, you can damage the battery though, which is why very low resistances should only be used on batteries that can handle the output required.

In a nut shell, yeah, the resistance of what you put on the device can make a 3.7v/3.2v seem like a 6v mod. It doesn't drain faster, it's just that most people think of 3.7v as a low end device, where in reality all lithium ion batteries are 3.7v, no matter what fancy nickname the mod has.

There's a bit more to it, but that's enough for now. :p

//I like variable voltage too. But there's no way I'm going to carry my provari everywhere. Thing weighs a ton.
 
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bladebarrier

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AttyPops

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12 watts... save that for advanced vaping... I wouldn't start with that... it would burn all my juice!

Like mentioned above, if you're seriously looking at HV... why not try vv? Then you can dial it to whatever you want, within specs.

FYI - I use 5v boxmods with 3.0 ohm atties so 8.333 watts. Sometimes I think that is quite hot. YMMV. I haven't bothered with vv, but could if I choose. I build the 5v mods for less than $10.00 so meh.

LR atties are fine... many swear by them. There is (admittedly debatable) concern about the lowest LR stuff damaging eGo/Fat-batt type devices. So, research.

LR is not quite the same as HV, but close enough. The LR atties don't last as long as standard atties.
 

epresley

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Wow! Thanks again everyone. I think I'm going to add the pass-through and a VV to my collection. Seems that when it comes to bang for your buck, the Provari is the best bet. Especially with the digital read out. The Infinity Pro sounds promising, but I could not find anything regarding a price point on that one. Does anyone have recs on taking the plunge with a Provari versus waiting on the Infinity Pro?
 

markfm

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The Infinity Pro, with two sets of batteries and charger, will likely be about $120. Right now, after over 5 months, I get a full day of use, running through 6 ml of liquid at about 8W (around 5V with 3 ohm carto), on one pair of batteries.
(My Infinity, before batteries and charger, was $90 IIRC. The IP is somewhere between $90 and $100 for just the mod, sorry I don't recall the precise price.)

The IP is supposed to have longer runtime than the prior Infinity, new regulator design (shared with the new Buzz Pro); since it already does full day based on my moderately heavy use I'm very happy. It doesn't have an LCD, but the thumbwheel to adjust voltage is a piece of cake to use, and frankly I don't really care about knowing the precise resistance or voltage -- I roll the wheel until it tastes good (you'll tend to find a sweet spot and leave it there for a given flavor and atty/carto).

The Infinity has been rock solid, consistent, takes abuse.

So, bang for the buck I'd take the Infinity (after all, I did take it :) ). The Provari has many fans, it's certainly a good device, though from what I've heard from multiple posters it sounds like the base Infinity delivers better run time than the Provari, and a lower price point.

Either are solid choices, good products, depends on what you want.

I just picked up a new Buzz Pro. A bit higher price (about $40 more than Infinity, best I can tell still less $ than Provari). It's shorter but thicker than the Infinity, uses a more generic battery.
 

bladebarrier

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Atty Resistance is a HUGE factor.

You might read this thread. There is some good info in it.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...omizer-battery-watts-chart-2.html#post3809160

Handy chart! Just to add on, you can also calculate it out online for the cartos that go down to 1.5 ohms or less, as well as regulated ego batteries that hover a little bit lower, using this link: Calculations voltage current resistance and electric power formula calculator - electricity calculation - electrical power formula general ohms law physics electricity electronics formula wheel formulas amps watts volts ohms cosine equation audio eng

Granted there are other variables to factor in, such as the maximum current output of the battery, voltage drop under load, etc, but it's a quick method to get the basic idea.

For big batteries, here's a list of some common ones: 18650 battery test 2011. Certainly all of the 18650's will easily output enough amperage for any ecig application, but that doesn't hold true with small batteries, which is why people suggest not using extra low resistance attys/cartos on them, as they can be forced to try to exceed their maximum rated output.
 

zoiDman

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Granted there are other variables to factor in, such as the maximum current output of the battery, voltage drop under load, etc, but it's a quick method to get the basic idea.

...

Yeah, there are other variables involved.

And they tend to give rise to some really Nasty Differential Equations. Not the fun First Semester ones but the Non-Linear ones.

But for the average vaper, the defining factors that govern how an e-Liquid tastes are Voltage and Atomizer Resistance.
 
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