VT Intermittent Firing

[Tennovan]

I did a quick search but couldn't find any posts regarding this issue. Please redirect me if I missed it. I recently ordered a manual VT Diamond Softie for a friend of mine but after realizing he didn't have a slim charger, I gladly gave him one of my newer OVK Diamonds instead. He gets a new battery and I got an upgrade, I figured it was a win/win.

The problem is that I stuck my tank on the Softie and while activated, it would only fire every other second. I guess that's technically not "intermittent" but its a bit strange nonetheless. The light stays on but switches back and forth between working/not working. This also happens on a different tank from V4L -- both using 1.5 ohm DC cartos.

I did a test before leaving the house earlier and it seemed to work fine with a CoolCart. I took 5-6 hits with no firing issues... but I'll have to put it through its paces to confirm that. I'm thinking maybe the battery is having issues with the 1.5 ohm DC tank cartos? I haven't recently measured the resistance of this particular DC (will in a bit) but it worked perfectly fine on the OVK Diamond I gave away. I will test a few higher resistance DC/WOW cartos when I get home but am hoping someone has a magic fix for me?

Morandir? Dr. Snow? Anybody?

 

[SnowDragon]

Sounds like you are doing all the right things Tennovan, check the Ohms..as we both know it could be 1.4, 1.5, or 1.6. Of course 1.4 might cause an issue or it could just be the post needs to come up when using the tank. I'd start with the Ohms and if that checks out I'd play with the post a little next.

Hope it's back up and running for you....

 

[Tennovan]

Alright I've had some time to play with it and test a few things. Unfortunately tweaking the post yields the same results as before. I found that the LED does indeed stay lit when it cuts out but noticeably flickers when it kicks back on. Charged to 4.18v before work, measured at 4.08 when I got home. Here is a list of stuff I tested:

1. DC carto @ 1.6 ohms - did not work
2. DC carto @ 1.6 ohms - did not work
3. DC carto @ 2.2 ohms - worked
4. WOW carto @ 2.5 ohms - worked
5. CoolCart @ 3.5 ohms - worked
6. 901 atomizer @ 2.1 ohms - worked
7. 901 atomizer @ 2.7 ohms - worked

 

[ShankUO]

I'm having the same problem with my Titan. Hoping for a fix. *crosses fingers*

 

[SnowDragon]

I know from Morandir's testing that the switches are riding a pretty fine line where .X or even .0X of an Ohm can make the difference between the carto working correctly or not. For instance, I wouldn't be shocked if it worked fine at 1.7 or 1.8 Ohms. If it's internal there just isn't a whole lot that can be done.

I'm guessing you don't happen to have any 2.0 replacement cartos or say a 808/510 adapter and a 510 device you could toss those tanks on do you? Even in my 5v OMG review I tossed on a 1.5/3.5ml tank onto the 5v OMG....nothing, tossed it on my ProVari and it worked like charm. Yet an identical 6 ml tank using the same 1.5 Ohm Smoketech Carto had no problem with 5v OMG....go figure. I have since used other 1.5 Tank Carto on the 5v OMG and they work fine.

I know....it can get a little frustrating..no doubt.

I think when it comes to the KRs, I would stick with the new 2.0 Dual Coils replacements. The .5 +/- difference is nominal when it comes to performance and they do draw a little less amperage giving the user a little more performance time. I too really like 1.5 Ohms on any 3.7 device, knock on wood I haven't had an issue yet but that doesn't mean I won't in the future.

 

[Tennovan]

I'm guessing you don't happen to have any 2.0 replacement cartos or say a 808/510 adapter and a 510 device you could toss those tanks on do you?

I have 2.0 replacements in both the 808 and 510 variety, as well as adapters to go both ways. 2.0 seems to work fine on the Titan using both native and adapted cartos -- but all 808/510 1.5-1.6 ohm cartos I've tried don't. Those same cartos work fine on a Silver Bullet... but that was expected as the AW battery is far more equipped to handle that sort of thing I guess.

Still, its a little disappointing since the tanks on the V4L site state they are "fully compatible with V4L Diamond Series Manual Batteries". From what I can see that seems to be the case with OVK Diamonds but not so much with the Titans. I unfortunately bought a boatload of 1.5 ohm replacements so I guess this battery will go into my pile of backups until I find something that works with it. It's a shame because the Titan is otherwise really nice, just not as "enhanced" as advertised.

 

[Morandir835]

Tennovan sir there is no fix. Comes down to a few key factors. One a few of the king diamond and stealths (vt or non-vt) in all sizes are having issues firing lower ohm dc (the 1.5ohm range ones). Some they will some they won't. Another key factor that's been brushed on but rarely talked about is efficiency. The provari 2.0 has a 3.5 ap cut off. Using a 1.7ohm single coil can go all the way to 5.9v without an e2 error. That's 3.47a of current. Take a 1.5ohm dc though, and some can run up to 5v, others won't go past 4.7v. Reason for this is they pull more than what their ohms would suggest. So if you're using a 1.5ohm dc that actually requires 3.6a instead of the 2.8a it's ohm rating would be at 4.2v, it won't fire because the ic on the kd and stealths won't let it.

 

[plarkinjr]

... it won't fire because the ic on the kd and stealths won't let it.

This is very interesting. I'm sure they don't want proprietary secrets made public, but it sure would be fun to see the source-code of all the logic in the various ICs, and how it has evolved over time. (I'm a software guy)

 

[Tennovan]

I know what you mean, I'm a programmer so that kind of data seems more helpful at times.

I guess what's a bit frustrating is the site claims compatibility, but I've noticed quite a few people having similar problems. Even worse, I did more testing and mine doesn't even work at 1.7 ohms. Seems like a better solution would be to only claim compatibility with 2.0+ dc cartos or simply drop the compatibility statement altogether. Making 2.0 the standard for tanks would fix the problem, and 1.5's could still be offered to those who can use them.

If people are buying batteries at a premium, I imagine they'd like them to work as advertised. Luckily I'm the kind of person with several alternatives on hand, but some don't have that luxury. As it stands, buying a Titan is like playing the battery lottery. I love V4L but playing the lotto at $25 a pop is not an appealing idea.

 

[plantlvr]

I decided to send my two auto Titans back and replace them with DKs. The first one just doesn't perform right, the new one I just recieved yesterday is dead off the charger. These new batts are very pretty but if they don't work it's kind of pointless. The one manual Titan I have works pretty good so I'm keeping it.

 

[Morandir835]

Tennovan sir it's not the battery's fault, it's the cartos. Should I blame the people at provape that my provari won't go past 4.7v on a 1.5ohm dc when it's listed as 3.5a limit, meaning I should get 5.2v before an e2 error? IC's on ecigs have a number of functions, one of the biggest aspects on that list is safety. Too much amperage drawn from a batt leads to bad things (ask the two guys who had mods blow up in their face what drawing too much amperage can do). It's not every batt, and not every dc. The Silver Knight was able to use a few of the dc 1.5ohm cartos tried on it, these were all ones when placed on the provari was able to get up to 4.9v before tripping it's protection circuit. Sorry it's not working, but there's a reason for it when it doesn't.

 

[Tennovan]

I understand, but both battery and carto were provided by the same vendor, and it's stated that they're supposed to work together. I'm actually not that mad that it fails in the 1.5 range, I get the reasoning behind why it does so. What bothers me is that people are told it works in that range when there's clearly some that don't.

 

[Morandir835]

Tennovan sir why always put the disclaimer "works on all tried thus far". From what's been reported and tested by me- 213 kd/stealth manuals (vt and non-vt) work with the 1.5ohm dc's without issue, 7 haven't. That's a 96.7% success rate, and less than 5% failure rate, pretty outstanding numbers from a electronics standpoint.

 

[Tennovan]

Yikes I guess that just shows the kind of luck I have.

 

[Tennovan]

I know this thread is almost a month old but I wanted to throw out an update for those interested. I would have gotten to this sooner but I've been sick the past week... told you my luck was bad!

After a few days of additional testing, I finally decided to open a ticket. I was prepared to stick it out with this battery so my main goal was simply to make them aware of the issue and provide the results of my tests. The customer service rep was awesome, understanding, and super apologetic. He promptly sent out a replacement for me. I think we all know how great customer service is at V4L so I'll skip to the results.

I received the replacement on the 17th and I can tell you this... the difference between the two batteries is night and day. The old battery's performance is pretty well-documented in the previous posts, but I tested it right before it got shipped back and it wouldn't even fire intermittently anymore at low resistances. On the flip side, the replacement battery powered through a LR DC tank carto, measured @ 1.5 ohm, like it was nothing. Its working as expected and I'm a happy camper again.

A side note to TPTB at V4L -- due to a horrible case of tonsillitis/cold/flu, my return package is running a bit later than hoped. Sorry!

 

[Morandir835]

Great news Tennovan sir. Current count is now 438 to 13 that won't work on the 1.5ohm dc's. Still hovering right around 97%.

 

[EleanorR]

I can add to your count, Morandir.

I have at least :cough: 4 VT XLs :cough: that fire up the 1.5ohm DC tanks like a charm!

 

[Bobbye]

I can add one more that isn't working now. I just got this VT about 1 1/2 weeks ago and it was doing fine. I charged it yesterday and now it's doing exactly what Tennova described. It's fine on the CoolCart but for the tank at 1.5 it's not working

 

[Sallyem]

Great news Tennovan sir. Current count is now 438 to 13 that won't work on the 1.5ohm dc's. Still hovering right around 97%.

OMG Marandir...you must have gone thru thousands of batteries by now!

 

[Morandir835]

Not just my own Ms. Sally, have a number of people who report if they do or don't work.

Bobbye (can never remember if it's sir or Ms.) is it just that one 1.5 ohm carto, or have you tried it on another?