warning, steeping and proper care of ejuice

[radko]

E-cigarettes lack real scientific data at this point so care must be taken by the user to protect themselfs. Steeping ejuice is needed for the flavors to be properly mixed in the juice. Sometimes steeping means evaporating off the volatiles used to initially extract the flavor.

It is a fact that oxidation of PG C3H802 and VG C3H8O3, can create formaldehyde CH2O Acetaldehyde C4H3O, and other similarly structured chemicals. these chemicals are carcinogenic and toxic at much lower levels than the relatively safe base compositions.

I often wonder the storage conditions of the juice when I hear people say steep for a month. At room temperature VG and PG are not prone to oxidation. However when in contact with acid or metal, especially copper oxidation occurs at much greater rates. Some juices contain citric acid as part of the flavor or as a flavor preservative. Acid should not be used as a preservative In ejuice as it helps increase oxidation and degration of PG/VG.

Always be questioning what you are doing. Maybe steeping your juice for a month in your Ucan Or giving it that hot water bath for a few hours isn't the best idea. On a similar note that dripper that hasn't been cleaned and sat there for a week needs cleaned before use. Ejuice does have an expiration. PG/VG has a shelf life of one year on it's own, but we add flavors to it. Some flavors may be acidic and speed degration.

Personally, if needed, I steep cap off for a day or two at refrigerated temp to remove any volatiles. After that to aid mixing I only use time and shaking at low temp. Even at moderate temperatures PG/VG in the pressence of acidic flavors is degrading.

 

[93gc40]

Are you saying That steeping my Juice is making them as bad or worse for me than SMOKES.. Because if even well aired juice is safer than smoking. I DON"T CARE. Unless you have a TRULY SAFE alternative for me to try.

FWIW most of those volatiles wont evaporate in the refrigerator, to cold. Ethyl Alcohol is the most common of those volatiles and it would take months to evaporate even the small amounts used in Ejuice at temps less than 70 degrees. that said I don't do a lot of "flavored" Ejuice. I do mostly NETs, where most of the Flavorings are from the tobacco or tobacco curing processes, rather than added at time of Juice manufacture.

 

[radko]

Ahh the I I don't care defence. It's not hard to be safer then cigarettes. Statistically war is safer then cigarettes. No that old juice is probably not as bad as smoking but that's no excuse to ignore that it is possible to cause @harm. I vape all day everyday and I'd rather not put my juice in conditions that encourage poisonous transformations. And that is my safer alternative. to do what we do safer. Ignorance and refusal to accept science because it's not as bad as smoking is stupid.

 

[DiAmoroso]

Interesting info, definitely something I'll keep in the back of my mind. I simply age my liquid in a small wooden box for a couple weeks, occasionally shaking the bottles, so I'd assume I'm not making the liquid any more dangerous.

Science needs guinea pigs, and I'm fine with being one. Some day we may find that vaping is worse than smoking, but I feel it is very unlikely. I can physically feel my heart is healthier since I made the switch. I work in the respiratory medical field, and although I'm not any thing like a Dr, I'm surrounded by them all the time. The general consensus I get from them is that I shouldn't vaping or smoking, but if I'm going to do one, it's probably better to vape.

 

[Mellowbuzz]

I'm not a doctor, but I played one for Halloween 3 years ago, and I fully endorse vaping as a safe alternative to analog cigarettes.

 

[radko]

That's great diamoroso that's all I wanted from this thread is for people to think about their steeping methods and if they are just mixing and evaporating their ejuice or degrading it to harmful hydrocarbons.

 

[chopdoc]

The problem here is there isnt enough data to actually know how long e-liquid is good for. You claim one year, other places claims 2 years and if stored properly can last even longer than that. One of the consideration of aged e-liquid is the drop in nicotine levels yet if nicotine is stored properly in either PG or VG the shelf life has been proven to be over 10 years. People here on ECF made these claims because they have it stock piled in their freezers.
The important thing is it doesnt matter if an E-liquid is one month old or a couple years old. Does it look cloudy? Does it have a funky smell? If not and it passes the taste test, then keep on vaping it.

 

[radko]

That's correct chopdoc the color, cloudyness and odor can be used to determine if it is still good. In fact our olfactory system evolved to smell trace toxins far before harmful levels. data is lacking and I am no expert, but research indicates that some steeping conditions and flavorings we use may speed degridation.

 

[Ca Ike]

E-cigarettes lack real scientific data at this point so care must be taken by the user to protect themselfs. Steeping ejuice is needed for the flavors to be properly mixed in the juice. Sometimes steeping means evaporating off the volatiles used to initially extract the flavor.

It is a fact that oxidation of PG C3H802 and VG C3H8O3, can create formaldehyde CH2O Acetaldehyde C4H3O, and other similarly structured chemicals. these chemicals are carcinogenic and toxic at much lower levels than the relatively safe base compositions.

I often wonder the storage conditions of the juice when I hear people say steep for a month. At room temperature VG and PG are not prone to oxidation. However when in contact with acid or metal, especially copper oxidation occurs at much greater rates. Some juices contain citric acid as part of the flavor or as a flavor preservative. Acid should not be used as a preservative In ejuice as it helps increase oxidation and degration of PG/VG.

Always be questioning what you are doing. Maybe steeping your juice for a month in your Ucan Or giving it that hot water bath for a few hours isn't the best idea. On a similar note that dripper that hasn't been cleaned and sat there for a week needs cleaned before use. Ejuice does have an expiration. PG/VG has a shelf life of one year on it's own, but we add flavors to it. Some flavors may be acidic and speed degration.

Personally, if needed, I steep cap off for a day or two at refrigerated temp to remove any volatiles. After that to aid mixing I only use time and shaking at low temp. Even at moderate temperatures PG/VG in the pressence of acidic flavors is degrading.

I'm trying to work out the chemistry via how these molecules react and your statement just doesn't track. Even my old chem professor is having issues with this as without the addition of -1500 deg of heat you can't even get the precursor to formaldehyde and you need a lot stronger acid like hydrochloric to turn those into formaldehyde.

Post your study/sources or delete this thread. Based on basic chemistry on how the elements react, you more likely to off gas co2 and end up with nothing but water in the end at anything less than 1500 degrees where carbon starts to change.

Your "fact" is nothing but BS without proof to back it up. The simple fact that carbon makes up a large part of the gunk on a coil and creates CO2 when you dry burn at -600deg contradicts your statement (highschool level basic chem experiment using carbon from burnt food)

Look at all the scare studies done and all of them hit temps above 1000 deg to get even a hint of formaldehyde releasing agents which are NOT formaldehyde but compounds that, through further refinement not capable by the human body, become formaldehyde. The basic elements just don't react naturally to produce what your saying unless your talking volcanic activity.

 

[chopdoc]

Look at all the scare studies done and all of them hit temps above 1000 deg to get even a hint of formaldehyde releasing agents which are NOT formaldehyde but compounds that, through further refinement not capable by the human body, become formaldehyde. The basic elements just don't react naturally to produce what your saying unless your talking volcanic activity.

This reminds me of a study I recently read from some school in New England on the formation of formaldehyde in E-juice. They applied 5 volts to a machine that used 50 ml of juice for 5 puffs worth.....when I read that I choked on my vape. 50 ml of juice used to get a trace amount of formaldehyde. Who they tryng to kid here. The real interesting thing is s person who smoked a couple packs of cigs would surpass by far the amount of formaldehyde a person would get from 50 ml of e-juice getting burnt at a higher voltage than any of us would normally use. Anything below 5 volts did not produce any formaldehyde.

 

[SmokingAStogie]

Not to stray from the topic but jesus! Some of you guys need spell check and proper punctuation. Js.

 

[CloudZ]

PG and VG will decompose into formaldehyde if you burn them, which is the same as other organic compounds. This is probably where it comes from in cigarette smoke and you know, the way we light our e liquid on fire to vape it... Oh yeah we don't do that.

 

[Ca Ike]

PG and VG will decompose into formaldehyde if you burn them, which is the same as other organic compounds. This is probably where it comes from in cigarette smoke and you know, the way we light our e liquid on fire to vape it... Oh yeah we don't do that.

That's wrong though. The last formaldehyde junk study showed no formaldehyde period. Only "formaldehyde releasing agents". Meaning, it can produce formaldehyde if processed into it. Something an e-cig has been shown not to be able to do with what is used in juice. Some of what it took to get those compound had to have come from the clearomizer itself through the plastics, glues and wick material. Frankly if your going to test the juice itself the it should be done with just a raw coil first and then in different toppers to see what the wick and other materials add to the equation.

 

[Rickajho]

Ahh the I I don't care defence. It's not hard to be safer then cigarettes. Statistically war is safer then cigarettes. No that old juice is probably not as bad as smoking but that's no excuse to ignore that it is possible to cause @harm. I vape all day everyday and I'd rather not put my juice in conditions that encourage poisonous transformations. And that is my safer alternative. to do what we do safer. Ignorance and refusal to accept science because it's not as bad as smoking is stupid.

Ahh the I know better but fail to provide citations and references defense.For your complaining "E-cigarettes lack real scientific data" your retort is "It is a fact that oxidation of PG C3H802 and VG C3H8O3, can create formaldehyde CH2O Acetaldehyde C4H3O, and other similarly structured chemicals." Yet you provide no facts or context for those facts. Where is the data or references that back this up? And thanks for calling us stupid based upon your supposition.

 

[Mellowbuzz]

Not to stray from the topic but jesus! Some of you guys need spell check and proper punctuation. Js.

Whoa, the grammar police are here! Everyone be cool and act natural..... lol

And don't look now, but your post wasn't exactly a prodigious illustration of correct grammar either.

 

[radko]

My source chemistry, not saying I believe the views of this study just the chemistry. http ://www .mdpi .com/1660-4601/11/11/11192/htm]IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Carbonyl Compounds Generated from Electronic Cigarettes

 

[radko]

Oxidation of PG and VG can create formaldehyde it is fact

 

[juggler86]

Not to stray from the topic but jesus! Some of you guys need spell check and proper punctuation. Js.

Ahahaha. Look at your punctuation bro! This is a forum, we aint righting paperz in colage.

 

[SmokingAStogie]

Whoa, the grammar police are here! Everyone be cool and act natural..... lol

And don't look now, but your post wasn't exactly a prodigious illustration of correct grammar either.

Yeah i know, I'm on my phone. At least my spelling isn't bad

 

[katwb]

I do have a thought on this subject - something that has concerned me about aging liquid
I purchased a large bottle (250 ml) from a vendor I will leave nameless. After about 6 - 7 months at room temp it has a strange smell - almost metalish and turned to a very thick muddy ..... and has a metallic bitter taste - I feel its not fit for vaping .... almost all the ones I purchased from this same vendor have done this within a few months.