FDA Was nic base available pre 2007?
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I see black market as a viable option for all vapers (regardless of age) who are serious about their desire to vape.
That it is illegal will not be a deterrent for most. It is illegal to drive over the speed limit. If you get caught driving over the speed limit, you lose points off your driving record and pay a hefty fine. I think in all my years of living, I've met 5 people who only drive the speed limit. I could go on any highway right now in the U.S. and rather easily establish that 95% of the drivers do not seem to mind, even a little bit, that they are engaged in something that is not legal.
if eCigs have "saved your life" and there is strong desire to continue to use them, you'll find a way to get exactly what you want. Perhaps not anytime you want, but then again, perhaps anytime you want.
Plus, very existence of a black market, serves as a wide scope by which to protest heavy handed regulations.
We have historical awareness and current examples of items that were once prohibited are now legally marketed (and regulated) because legal jurisdictions learned, over time, that making it illegal did not serve the public good.
That it is illegal will not be a deterrent for most. It is illegal to drive over the speed limit. If you get caught driving over the speed limit, you lose points off your driving record and pay a hefty fine. I think in all my years of living, I've met 5 people who only drive the speed limit. I could go on any highway right now in the U.S. and rather easily establish that 95% of the drivers do not seem to mind, even a little bit, that they are engaged in something that is not legal.
if eCigs have "saved your life" and there is strong desire to continue to use them, you'll find a way to get exactly what you want. Perhaps not anytime you want, but then again, perhaps anytime you want.
Plus, very existence of a black market, serves as a wide scope by which to protest heavy handed regulations.
We have historical awareness and current examples of items that were once prohibited are now legally marketed (and regulated) because legal jurisdictions learned, over time, that making it illegal did not serve the public good.
But for many, going back to smoking isn't an option either. So this is a significant issue. I can see people buying whole leaf and vaporizing it or cooking up a net. Chances are they will be the first "dealers". I have to wonder how long whole leaf will be available. Then instead of grass growing in the south, it'll be 8' high tobacco plants. I'm sure my HOA will like that (not).
I know refillable cartridges were available in 2007, which means bottles of nicotine + base was too. Most people probably shipped them in because of pricing and selection. But that doesn't mean they weren't available for retail/private sale in the states also. There's also a fine line between domestic and int'l sales since the US considers anything available to US customers to fall within US law. That's why they go after dealers in other countries.
I don't think njoy was officially introduced stateside until 2008 and I'd bet they found something they can use as SE or they'd be sweating the dates too - and they are not.
Maybe we should hire a safecracker to sneak into their office and see what they've got. Bug their office. Shoot - bug the FDA's office too while were at it. They might share the same address for all we know.
I know refillable cartridges were available in 2007, which means bottles of nicotine + base was too. Most people probably shipped them in because of pricing and selection. But that doesn't mean they weren't available for retail/private sale in the states also. There's also a fine line between domestic and int'l sales since the US considers anything available to US customers to fall within US law. That's why they go after dealers in other countries.
I don't think njoy was officially introduced stateside until 2008 and I'd bet they found something they can use as SE or they'd be sweating the dates too - and they are not.
Maybe we should hire a safecracker to sneak into their office and see what they've got. Bug their office. Shoot - bug the FDA's office too while were at it. They might share the same address for all we know.
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Lucky you. For me I'd feel good if I got to drive the speed limit with more than 5' of highway between me and the car ahead. LOL!
There's a lot more liability in breaking the law for a person than there is for a corporation. People with business', kids, jobs, proffesional licenses are not going to want to risk it. There's also the question whether civil disobedence is a right anymore. Look at P2P, there are millions and yet the situation has gotten worse with increasing restrictions, penalties (a felony?), and fines to the point it's insane/ridiculous/silly. If anything, that's an example of how many people believe what they are told about it when they have no experince with it, like non-smokers will about ecigs. However, civil disobedence isn't a solution.
They are not sweating because they know the game is played with money. They can afford to bribe/pay for approval from the mafia (FDA).
Njoy was founded in Arizona in 2006...Was it not?
cheers
I
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cigalikes were on sale in the US "late 2006".
edit: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...economic-impact-analysis-16.html#post13035445
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Cooking up a NET would get tobacco flavorings, to extract the nicotine would be closer to "Breaking Bad"
Talk about trying to pull in non-sense from anywhere you can. The FDIC is worried about online scams. Warning about buy ...... cheap sites and spam emails. You see the word Pharamacetical Sales and Tobacco, so now believe this to be part of the greater plan.
If you read the list, its not hard to understand how some of the "fronts", could be of reasonable concern. Why you think E-Cigs are inside of that, is beyond me.
Next you are going to be opposed to a Nigerian heir to the King who just needs some money to be sent in, in order to give you access to his vast E-Cig fortune, and be upset the FDIC is warning you about emails from Nigeria
KODIAK;13030224 said:
I see where you're going with this and I agree with you.
If nicotine base was on the market before 2007, it remains an allowed product.
I don't think the pre-2007 product needs to be specifically FDA approved, just available on the US market.
It's a long shot, but we can only hope nic base was on the market for consumers prior to 2007. However, flavored eliquid only came from China in 2007 and has never been approved by the FDA. To be equally equivalent it would need to have been on the market in the US and approved. There's no way eliquid could be grandfathered in.
What we need to shoot for is pushing the date from 2007 to 2012 or later.
What we need to shoot for is pushing the date from 2007 to 2012 or later.
Not approved, just marketed. There was no approval prior to 2009 because the FDA didn't have control of tobacco products before Congress passed the FSPTC Act.
Right! Marketed within the US though. No flavored eliquid was marketed from within the US. It was all marketed from China.
Elizabeth, that was my mistake which StormFinch corrected. There is no need for an 'approved' product - because none existed. The requirement is only that it is 'commercially marketed' and there is no specific definition offered by the FDA for that,
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/UCM334750.pdf
...so you can go by 'regular definitions':
Marketed - offered for sale
vs.
Manufactured - made
According to the SE guidance, it's just marketed in the U.S., but then we're dealing with the FDA here which could of course make it mean just about anything.
Back when the FDA was fighting out their device belief in court I did some digging. Within a BBB description, American E-Liquid Store was listed as having done business in American mixed e-liquids since 2006, so it's possible that there actually were both imported and in-country liquids to base SE off of. Also, CASAA's legal types were looking into the hardware at the same time and knew that Runyan at the very least was marketing their products over here, so unless their beliefs have changed, they too see a foreign company marketing in the U.S. as SE fodder.
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Found this
re: Mark Weiss, NJoy - a response by director of US International Trade Commission for a "tariff classification ruling" August 22, 2006. Almost all other google searchs will say that the first ecigarettes were marketed in the US "late 2006", so I'm guessing Mark got right to it. lol.
NY M85579 - The tariff classification of a nicotine inhaler and parts from China - United States International Trade Commision Rulings
And I don't think that the FDA could argue the 2006 date. Comsumer Reports said:
"The Food and Drug Administration received more than 70 complaints about e-cigarettes between the end of 2006 and November 2013"
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/03/biggest-e-cigarette-complaints/index.htm
I sent this along to Kristin just in case they didn't have it, but assumed they might.
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Looks like someone else had the idea too.
NY M86437 - The tariff classification of an electronic inhaler from China - United States International Trade Commision Rulings
NY M86437 - The tariff classification of an electronic inhaler from China - United States International Trade Commision Rulings
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