Washington State - House & Senate Bills - Help w/interpretation?

[Turnkeys]

Good evening,

The liberals just can't focus on the real problems.

Via Google, I just came across 2 companion bills in the WA House & Senate. They were first read mid and late January. They're primarily targetting prohibitions to youth sales, however the wording is too broad. It's misleading about the harm of smokeless tobacco products, and (by my limited comprehension of legalize) appears to be applicable to e-liquid and PV's.

Senate Bill 5380

House Bill 1246

I could use some other viewpoints and interpretations, as well as help from more articulate CASAA members. All of the senate bill's sponsors are democrats, as are most of the house bill's sponsors. So I already have a problem with them, however I know that trying to educate them is the best approach to work towards having the 'shotgun blast' phrasing reworded.

Also, any washington locals willing to join the fight, I was going to form a new group for western WA members. But that function is currently disabled pending updates, so PM me if you're interested.

Comments welcome.

 

[MoonRose]

This has nothing to do with whether someone is democrat, republican, independent or what ever other political affiliation there might be. This has to do with holier than thou BS artists spreading their lies about all smokeless tobacco products being just as dangerous as smoking and getting others to believe them. And I notice that they are not including FDA approved pharmaceutical nicotine cessation products under the banning of flavored tobacco/nicotine products either.

 

[mauzey]

Turnkeys, you should post this over in the Casaa forum this is more of the progressive BS this State likes to slap itself on the back for every year.

Thanks for the info,

Jeff~

 

[Vocalek]

Well, well, well. SENATE BILL 5380 is, indeed, a very interesting law. It is outlawing flavors in all types of tobacco products, except for cigarettes and FDA-approved smoking cessation products.

It is based on ignorance of scientific research conducted during the past decade.

"Cigar and cigarette smokers face comparable risks for oral, throat and esophageal cancers."

Misleading: The cigar and pipe smokers who do not inhale the smoke have a significant overall reduction in health risks compared to cigarette smokers. Those who inhale the smoke face the same health risks as cigarette smokers.

Average cigarette smoking reduced the total life expectancy by 6.8 years, whereas heavy cigarette smoking reduced the total life expectancy by 8.8 years. The number of total life-years lost due to cigar or pipe smoking was 4.7 years.

Mortality and life expectancy in relation to long-... [Tob Control. 2007] - PubMed result

"Smokeless tobacco products similarly raise users' risk of various diseases including cancers of the lip, tongue, cheeks, and gums."

The above would be a true statement if the word "Some" started the sentence. The law ignores the fact that research shows that low-nitrosamine Swedish snus users have no elevated risk of any type of disease when compared with former smokers who stopped all use of tobacco products. Many of the modern smoke-free products such as orbs and strips have never been linked to cancers, and probably will never be, due to much lower content of carcinogens when compared with such products as chewing tobacco. Star Scientific has applied for "reduced exposure" status for some of its products.

Banning flavors in all tobacco products could result in an increase in smoking. I'm pretty sure that I would not be able to handle unflavored snus, any more than I was able to tolerate the original flavor of Nicorette gum.

I searched for the words "vapor" and "electronic" in the text of the bill and they were not found. However, their definition of "Tobacco Product" could be interpreted to apply to electronic cigarettes.

"'Tobacco product' includes any product containing tobacco or nicotine that is expected or intended for human consumption..."

Again, this bill would not ban sales, but only sales of products with flavors other than "tobacco".

 

[mauzey]

Yes Vocalek, again it seems as much as they are against cigarettes, by their actions they always seem to funnel people straight to them.

 

[tybin]

This has nothing to do with whether someone is democrat, republican, independent or what ever other political affiliation there might be. This has to do with holier than thou BS artists spreading their lies about all smokeless tobacco products being just as dangerous as smoking and getting others to believe them. And I notice that they are not including FDA approved pharmaceutical nicotine cessation products under the banning of flavored tobacco/nicotine products either.

well said! I am a "progressive democrat". Can we stop with the labels gang? We come from all walks of life, and we all need to band together on such issues. It is our job to educate or representatives ( and the public) with the true facts regarding e cigs.
I understand the passion behind the label statements, but let's set that aside and get to work.

 

[mauzey]

well said! I am a "progressive democrat". Can we stop with the labels gang? We come from all walks of life, and we all need to band together on such issues. It is our job to educate or representatives ( and the public) with the true facts regarding e cigs.
I understand the passion behind the label statements, but let's set that aside and get to work.

tybin, you are totally correct, though I may fight you in many other arenas, we are on the same side here.

Sorry to offend

 

[tybin]

love ya anyway keep on vapin

 

[Turnkeys]

tybin, you are totally correct, though I may fight you in many other arenas, we are on the same side here.

Sorry to offend

I must also claim mea culpa here. :/

 

[Turnkeys]

I searched for the words "vapor" and "electronic" in the text of the bill and they were not found. However, their definition of "Tobacco Product" could be interpreted to apply to electronic cigarettes.

"'Tobacco product' includes any product containing tobacco or nicotine that is expected or intended for human consumption..."

Again, this bill would not ban sales, but only sales of products with flavors other than "tobacco".

It's ignorant misunderstanding aside for a moment, I agree it lacks the potential to ban sales, but's broad spectrum sets a disturbing precident and could provide a gateway for more PV related legislation.

Furthermore the bill is already being misunderstood by the public and some vendors. I've been told by several kiosk vendors that (flavored) e-liquid sales are already banned in WA.

Suggestions for response? Whilst I agree snail-mail should be more effective, most (if not all) representitives mail is undergoing rigorious security screening. My own rep, Jaime Herrera Beutler, states on her contact page it could delay receipt as much as 2 weeks.

 

[mauzey]

I would love a definition of a tobacco flavor, I have yet to get an e-liquid that tastes like a cigarette, other than the possible exception of a taste that smells like a freshly opened pack of cigs.

 

[GarnetJax]

I would love a definition of a tobacco flavor, I have yet to get an e-liquid that tastes like a cigarette, other than the possible exception of a taste that smells like a freshly opened pack of cigs.

tushay!!!

 

[louis]

This is still a battle of Big Money from Tobacco, Pharma & the interference of the good liberals that are bent on saving the world & everyone in it.
Tobacco & Big Pharma have the most to spend so their products are encouraged.
Also there is no TAX on these products from outside the state so we have a money issue again.
Good luck as this is a liberal state & you are right as they don't base anything on good science, just political correctness.

louis

 

[Exylos]

guys and girls think smart here. What is stopping an e seller from going around this like this.

Flavored Eliquid may become illegal, but the flavoring itself is not illegal, So you sell flavorless Vape(which this law does not effect.), in the nicotine lvls still aloud. Then sell vials of the flavoring separate with directions of how to mix it. Wait that would still be legal, and no stress over the laws. because well flavor liquids are sold for everything, Directions on how to use it well that is what they say they want with eliquid supplies anyway, Good luck stopping that seller.


I think we should start thinking about this like a tobacco product in a sence, but one that is way harder for them to control than we actually think.

What is a PV= Essentially it does the same job as a ...., or pipe. In the sense that we have to put the true tobacco product in it. So when they are talking about banning them the liquid and the PV are not the same thing.

Now the liquid, they can in truth only look at that as the actual tobacco product since that is where the nicotine is. But you can buy everything you need to mix your own liquid at home in the pharmacy right down the street or at least you can in Germany(Man was happy to figure this out, I just halfed my vaping costs.).

Since we now know that they can only treat the liquid as the tobacco product, ok they make flavoring illegal, then Esellers, Simply sell bottles of flavoring separate, and in the amounts needed for what ever ML bottles you sell, put directing in it that reads something like.


(numbers are made up.)

2ML flavoring for 10ML E liquid
5ml flavoring for 30 ML E liquid
and so on.

Shake and vape.

Because the law only applies in the sense they can sell it premixed, no where in the law does it say the flavor can not be sold at all, nor does it say we cannot mix it ourselves. Loop holes, have to look for the loop holes. Vape on.

 

[Stubby]

18 No person shall sell, distribute, offer for sale, or allow to
19 be sold or distributed any tobacco product or any component part
20 thereof that:
21 (a) Has or produces a distinguishable flavor, taste, or aroma other
22 than tobacco that can be readily perceived by a consumer or other
23 person through their sense of taste or smell either prior to or during
24 consumption;
25 (b) Does not have or produce such a distinguishable flavor, taste,
26 or aroma but is nevertheless labeled, advertised or otherwise marketed
27 by its manufacturer or its importer into the United States as having or
28 producing such a distinguishable flavor, taste, or aroma; or
29 (c) Includes, contains, or is comprised of capsular smokeless
30 tobacco.
31 (2) For the purposes of this section:
32 (a) "Capsular smokeless tobacco" means any product containing
33 tobacco that is intended or expected for oral consumption that does not
34 consist of loose tobacco and is offered in discrete single dose or
35 single use lozenges, pouches, pills, capsules, or other single dose or
36 single use units or in packages of such single dose or single use
37 units.

What I'm reading is that the bill would outlaw all flavored smokeless tobacco and any portion smokeless tobacco. It would allow only tobacco flavored loose smokeless.

This would be a disaster for harm reduction as at least 75% of snus sold in the US is portioned and a very high % is flavored. This would make all US made snus illegal as in Camel, Marlboro and Skoal as they are all portioned and flavored and Ariva and Stonewall dissolvables. The bill has nothing to do with public health and in fact would be a big plus for cigarette sales.

 

[Vocalek]

Good catch Stubby. I missed that. I was thinking that they were still talking about flavors in section (c).

I wonder what percentage of Cigars sold are flavored.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Mike Siegel wrote about this WA legislation on Tuesday at
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: More Hypocrisy: Washington Anti-Smoking Groups Supporting Bill that Would Ban Menthol Cigarillos, But Allow Menthol Cigarettes

 

[Bill Godshall]

The Seattle Times ran an article about this legislation on Sunday at:
Local News | Proposed ban on flavored tobacco creates sparks | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

[MoonRose]

Good catch Stubby. I missed that. I was thinking that they were still talking about flavors in section (c).

I wonder what percentage of Cigars sold are flavored.

Quite a few I would think, with the Black Cherry flavor being one of the favorites among many.

 

[MoonRose]

"Nicotine is as or more addictive than co***** or her***," Sullivan told lawmakers.

That lying ... It's people like this Megan Sullivan that I just want to shake until their teeth rattle .... grrrrrrrrrrr.