Watts vs Volts

[Mezrein]

Im sure there is somewhere on the internet to explain this, and Ive had people try to explain this before but I still cant get my head wrapped around it, even more so now that Im building coils at 1.2ohm's. So heres my view of variable voltage as Ive been experiencing it.

Setup:
Provari in 18650 mode with AWIMR 2000mah batteries
Kayfun clone (yes yes I know, its a clone) with a 1.6ohm 28 gauge kanthal with hemp/cotton wick
Currently running at 3.3 volts so I dont get a burnt taste

From what I've read on the net, and heard from friends, in watts the highest I could possibly go and still achieve 3.3 volts would be 7.7 watts. So how is it, that I see people and hear about people running .5 to .8ohm on DNA 20 devices running anywhere from 9 to 15 watts?? How are they NOT getting dry hits??? How are they not blasting their coils? Also how are mechs handling that? Ive always thought a mech puts out a constant 3.7 volts? Im so confused

 

[DoogieTony]

When you wrap a sub ohm coil you have to use thick wire and more of it so it requires more power to heat the coil. As for dry hits, cotton keeps up very well with just about anything you throw at it.

Mechs put out voltage from the battery which starts at 4.2 volts and drops as the battery drains. There will be a small amount of voltage drop due to inefficiency though.

 

[Mezrein]

Ok, thicker wire means more power, makes sense. However, Im using 28 gauge for my 1.6 ohm, at 3.1 and 3.2 I seem to be ok on dry hits, at 3.3 it can go either way, 3.4 and up is tasting burnt. So my assumption would be I'd need to keep the wattage of a DNA20 or other VW device at 7.5 watts and anything else would taste burnt, is that not right? This is where my confusion is.

 

[OhmTheWatt]

Your problem is the wicking. If it's not feeding eliquid fast enough you aren't going to get the performance the sub ohm crowd is getting.

Airflow, juiceflow, coil design, and wicking material are all factors in what the best setting will be.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[Mezrein]

Wont deny the airflow on this isnt the greatest, its basically a wide open draw. This particular clone has no valve on it like the russian or the kayfun lite+. Im running a 100% vg mix through it right now, simply because its a plastic tank and I dont think it would withstand my peppermint/cinnamon/vanilla mix that I use as my all day. When my russian gets here I intend to use its metal tank on the kayfun clone with my 70/30 peppermint mix since this tank has no airflow, and run the 100% through the russian with a tighter draw.

 

[DoogieTony]

It all depends on how your coil is set up. I'm guessing that you're not running a micro coil?

If you only have a few wraps on your coil you don't have much wire to wick contact. That will make for dry hits much quicker as the juice is being vaporized in a small area of wick and it just can't keep up with the heat applied.

Honestly, on the Provari I would suggest that you try a higher ohm micro coil, say 1.8 - 2.0 ohm. This would allow for more surface area on your coils and give you more room to adjust the voltage to your liking.

 

[Mezrein]

Its a micro, 10 wraps on a 2.25mm drill bit, but its more a question of how people run high wattage on these low coils. I want a DNA20, and want 1.2ohm, but I keep running into issues at 1.6 so its just confusing,

 

[DoogieTony]

Ok, so then you've got wicking issues. What wick are you using?

 

[Mezrein]

cotton hemp, not sure its exact thickness, but I had to double it for good wick to wire, got it from Organic Cotton Hemp Wick
Its also been boiled 15 minutes each between water changes.

 

[DoogieTony]

its more a question of how people run high wattage on these low coils

Simple answer is that they have their coils set up properly, wick working correctly, juice being supplied, and enough airflow.

 

[Mezrein]

So I need to keep experimenting with my coils and wick since I cant adjust my airflow. Maybe a needle wrap on a single strand of hemp... hmm.

 

[DoogieTony]

cotton hemp, not sure its exact thickness, but I had to double it for good wick to wire, got it from Organic Cotton Hemp Wick
Its also been boiled 15 minutes each between water changes.

Most likely this is your problem. If your wick is too tight in the coil then it can get choked off and not wick effectively.

You might try some CVS sterile cotton balls or sterile rolled cotton. It works better for micros as you can better adjust the amount you put in the coil.

 

[Plumes.91]

The thicker the wire the MORE wraps you need to even get to a regular resistance that people use. 4 wraps of 32g will give you like 2 ohms. 4 wraps of 26g will give you like 1ohm or around there. The lower the gauge number, the bigger the wire is physically, which can be confusing at first. But the lower the number, the LOWER the RESISTANCE per wrap.

Your dry hits are dependent solely on the atomizer your using. It has to remain soaked at all times. If you allow it to get dry, it will burn. If you overfill and the juice chokes the coil, it will not produce vapor. You must find a happy medium & you need to figure out the best build for the atomizer style that you are using. 1.3 ohms is high. You should be able to use around 3.6-3.7 volts and be happy, without your wick burning at all. Something sounds wrong about your wick/coil setup if your burning with a 1.3o coil at 3.2v.

You might be really sensitive to the taste of your wick burning.. Maybe you should try using stainless steel mesh? It won't burn. I was using hemp for a couple days and I never figured it out. Its an inefficient wick material in my experience & opinion. I highly recommend cotton & silica. (or mesh) You can unroll a cotton ball or a cotton swab and use that no problem. Cotton burns, but I don't taste it or feel it, whcih is nice.

 

[spawnsharks]

Try the cotton balls. Unroll one, and peel off a strip maybe three times as thick as the coil when it's still fluffy. Lightly roll the cotton between your fingers to make a wick. Do not twist, as you will get it too tight. Of course, twist one end to thread through the coil. The wick should be medium density.. not packed solid, and not fluffy like a cloud.. less dense than the hemp wick you are using, but it will wick more freely. Ideally, the wick should slide easily through the coil, but just big enough to touch the inside surface all the way around, but no force needed to move it around. Too tight, it will choke and you'll get dry hits, too loose and it will not make enough contact, or wick enough fluid, and it will just suck.

Once you get the right balance, the Kayfun chimney/channel design should be one of the best vapes you have ever had!!!

 

[Mezrein]

Im not giving up on this, just pulled out my double thick wick, and put in a single thick wick, no dry burn but also really low vapor. So not giving up on this, organic cotton balls tomorrow! THanks everyone for all the help and encouragement, vape on! And goodnight.

1:03am edit
Ok.. as I walking to my kitchen to make coffee for the morning, I thought to myself, hey you're still at 3.1 volts, crank that crap up! So now Im at 3.7, hello vapor! hello flavor, hello throat hit, gooooooooodbye dry burns! Hmmmmmmmmm,

 

[glassgal]

So on a mechanical... what wire gauge, ohm setting, and juice are you using for sub ohm that does not burn organic cotton balls that you can vape at 20 watts continuously?

 

[jersey_emt]

Honestly, on the Provari I would suggest that you try a higher ohm micro coil, say 1.8 - 2.0 ohm. This would allow for more surface area on your coils and give you more room to adjust the voltage to your liking.

I agree. On my regulated mods (an iTaste MVP 2.0 and an iTaste VV 3.0), I found the sweet spot for RDA's is a ~2.0 ohm microcoil with 30 gauge Kanthal wrapped around a 3/64" drill bit (1.3 mm) or 28 gauge Kanthal wrapped around a 1/16" (1.6mm) drill bit.

Phenomenal flavor, very good vapor production, very good (quick) coil heating, and not a monster juice guzzler.

 

[DoogieTony]

Im not giving up on this, just pulled out my double thick wick, and put in a single thick wick, no dry burn but also really low vapor. So not giving up on this, organic cotton balls tomorrow! THanks everyone for all the help and encouragement, vape on! And goodnight.

1:03am edit
Ok.. as I walking to my kitchen to make coffee for the morning, I thought to myself, hey you're still at 3.1 volts, crank that crap up! So now Im at 3.7, hello vapor! hello flavor, hello throat hit, gooooooooodbye dry burns! Hmmmmmmmmm,

How about that. We fixed a problem you didn't know you had.

I'd still suggest trying some cotton and tweak your setup a bit and you can get it to really shine.

 

[TrentTC]

As long as the cotton stays saturated it won't burn. I've run as low as .2 ohm builds in drippers with cotton and not had problems, but you need to keep the cotton wet all the time. With good wicking, airflow, and juice you can vape at incredibly high watts (.2 ohms will give you about 70 watts at 3.7 volts) and get no burning at all. Not recommending for anyone to build .2 ohm coils, I know how sensitive people are about sub ohming. I'm just giving an example

 

[Mezrein]

Im def going to try to organic cotton balls. I laid in bed and vaped some more last night, and if I chain vape too fast it cant keep up. Im also going to blame 100% vg a little bit on the wicking issues.