FDA What about non-nicotine containing juices/products?

Status
Not open for further replies.

trying

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 11, 2010
235
121
50
usa
The question that will answer how synthetic nicotine is regulated is what is it being used for now.
A company does not manufacture a product without a market and if is being used on humans and is not a tobacco product then someone must have done some testing to get approved "drug" status. If it is not being used for humans or even animals then it would be classified by FDA as an unapproved drug.
 

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,167
The question that will answer how synthetic nicotine is regulated is what is it being used for now.
A company does not manufacture a product without a market and if is being used on humans and is not a tobacco product then someone must have done some testing to get approved "drug" status. If it is not being used for humans or even animals then it would be classified by FDA as an unapproved drug.
Whenever synthetic nicotine has come up in discussion the response is it is cost prohibitive to make. Recently an entrepreneur claims he can make it for 13 times the cost of derived nic. My annual cost of nic is about $13. 13 x $13 = $169 is not cost prohibitive compared to smoking but the entrepreneur's claim may not pan out. Garage inventors (including me) have a tendancy for hyperoptimizim. Prototypes and one-off's 'do not a product make'.

If the courts were to protect synthetic nic and devices intended to be used with it the regulations would be pretty messed up without additional authority from congress. There would be little justification for prohibiting access to identical less expensive nic.

If nic was given "drug" status how would it be justified that tobacco, gum and patches do not contain a drug?
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,952
68
saint paul,mn,usa
  • Like
Reactions: Lessifer

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,973
San Diego
If nic was given "drug" status how would it be justified that tobacco, gum and patches do not contain a drug?
There are currently two categories of nicotine...

1) FDA approved drugs
2) Recreational "tobacco" products

Synthetic nicotine not derived from tobacco would become a new category.
I'm sure the FDA would have NO problem declaring it a drug.

They've been wanting to make ALL nicotine a drug from the start.
It seems synthetic nicotine would be a slam dunk for them.
 

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,167
There are currently two categories of nicotine...

1) FDA approved drugs
2) Recreational "tobacco" products

Synthetic nicotine not derived from tobacco would become a new category.
I'm sure the FDA would have NO problem declaring it a drug.

They've been wanting to make ALL nicotine a drug from the start.
It seems synthetic nicotine would be a slam dunk for them.
Do they have the authority to declare anything a drug entirely at their own discretion? If they could do that there wouldn't need to be any laws limiting their authority because there would be no limits. They could put any rules on anything any time.
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,973
San Diego
Do they have the authority to declare anything a drug entirely at their own discretion? If they could do that there wouldn't need to be any laws limiting their authority because there would be no limits. They could put any rules on anything any time.
I honestly don't know what it would take for that to happen.
But I am thinking that for sure it would be the plan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LaraC

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,167
I honestly don't know what it would take for that to happen.
But I am thinking that for sure it would be the plan.
Best to find out if they have that authority. In theory our dear government can only do what it has speccific authority to do. If we need a new law for something we have congress to make laws to give it more authority then congress can't make laws that violate the, uh, ummm.... the... I think it's called the Constitution. Correct me if I'm wrong about that. So the current lawsuits are claiming that the FDA is exceeding the authority given by congress and I think there are also a few claims that the FDA is violating constitutional rights too.

If the FDA can declare anything a drug and regulate it they need to deem NFL football on TV to be a drug and needing strict regulation to protect the public from its many insidious health effects. They also need to ban flavoring in ice cream. Those flavors are put there to appeal to children although I have seen grownups eating ice cream, once or twice.
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,973
San Diego
If the FDA can declare anything a drug and regulate it they need to deem NFL football on TV to be a drug and needing strict regulation to protect the public from its many insidious health effects.
If you had said "insidious marital effects" I would have been right there with you...
Because I plan my vacations AROUND the Chargers schedule...

But football has led to no insidious health effects that I am aware of at this time...
--Well, other than excessive consumption of alcohol I guess
--And maybe excessive consumption of tacos or chips or hamburgers

But the NFL has, on occasion, led to some squabbles with the wife.
Sometimes she forgets why THERE IS NO EXCUSE to miss a Charger game.

None. Ever. Period.
 

rico942

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 12, 2013
1,444
3,057
Carlsbad, CA
But football has led to no insidious health effects that I am aware of at this time...

Try watching a Chargers-Raiders game with a bunch of Samoan Oakland fans ... :shock:

All breakables must be removed from the room, and wrestling mats are mandatory ... :rolleyes:

I tape my ribs before the kickoff ... :ohmy:

The 10 weeks between games should be just enough to repair the living room damage ... :laugh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: LaraC and DC2

rico942

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 12, 2013
1,444
3,057
Carlsbad, CA
How many revolutions will it take to charge my batteries ? :unsure:

images
 

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,167
What's chilling to me is the attitude of the FDA, and it's reflected by the entire so-called public health field. It comes through so loud and clear that the least of their concerns is anybody's health. There is no hint of compassion. They are obsessed with control and disguising their intentions. The process is morally bankrupt and they have not a twinge of shame about that. The usual safe explanation is, follow the money, and I'm sure that applies here but I wish we understood it more deeply.

It's feasible to create a macro economic model for what would happen if the smoking rate world wide began to decline rapidly enough to cause serious disruptions, good or bad, social or economic. I'm amazed nobody has done that. That is probably where the most useful insights would be found.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LaraC

Canadian_Vaper

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 30, 2015
5,724
11,483
ON. Canada
FDA, and it's reflected by the entire so-called public health field
Same with health canada, they disallow the importation of nicotine to Canada however it's allowed to be sold in other forms since they have some control over it....

"It's only okay if you get it the way we want you to"
 

SeniorBoy

VapeFight.com Founder
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 21, 2013
1,735
5,160
Las Vegas, NV
vapefight.com
A little dovetail/regulatory example of how the FDA operates from the post by @DC2 where he talks about:

"1) FDA approved drugs
2) Recreational "tobacco" products"

Regulated as a DRUG example: The FDA has already done that! No questions or ambiguity please. For your reading pleasure:

FDA Bans Nicotine Water, Calling It Unapproved Drug

"WASHINGTON -- The Food and Drug Administration banned bottled water with nicotine before it hit store shelves. The move, which follows a recent ban on nicotine-laced lollipops, came in response to a request from antismoking groups. The FDA said that Nico Water, made by Quick Test 5, Westlake, Calif., and scheduled to reach stores this month, is a drug that needs approval before it can be sold.

Source: FDA Bans Nicotine Water, Calling It Unapproved Drug

It's also worth noting that I don't know of ANY Lab/co-packer/bottler on the face of the planet Earth or Mars who currently ONLY produces zero NIC ejuice or carts. Not to mention that a long term viable business model is a non event if all you sell/create is zero nic. Yes, it's around 20% of the sales but that's hardly enough to warrant a viable long term business model. Even Amazon may get slammed ? since they sell ONLY zero NIC ejuice BUT the manufacturer/company ALSO sells ejuice with NIC. Hard to imagine but IMHO it certainly could happen and I doubt that a PMTA is in the cards for the parties in this case.

The FDA’s “intended or reasonably expected” catch all! Just search the final.

Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!
 
Last edited:

Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
my understanding is ... even zero nicotine eLiquid must have a label stating that it is a tobacco product :smokie:
Even worse. "This product is made from tobacco." So the government is requiring businesses to lie to the consumers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread