What do the new laws mean for juice vendors?

[roxics]

I was considering setting up a small internet shop and selling some of my liquid creations. But I'm concerned now with the government classifying e-cigs as tobacco products. Does this mean I'll need a license to sell or all kinds of government restrictions added?

Basically is this going to drive small mom and pop e-liquid makers out of business because of the overall cost and process required?

I'd hate to see this industry become one where only big tobacco can afford to be in business and rule the market. I'd much prefer this industry stay similar to the alcohol industry where micro breweries can exist.

 

[Thulium]

Roxics,

Its important to understand that there AREN'T any "new laws" regarding e-cigarettes just yet. The FDA has indicated that they INTEND to issue regulations for e-cigarettes under the Tobacco Act, but I suspect most people will agree that regulating combustible products like pipes and cigars should be the higher priority. The Tobacco Act requires the FDA to submit any proposed regulations to the Secretary of Health to review and consider public comments, so if you are concerned that the FDA may try to make unreasonable regulations, please join the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA) as we closely watch the FDA as well as state and local initiatives that might restrict the availability or affordability of smoke-free alternatives. Charlie Sheen gives the best reason to not panic right now: "Duh...WINNING." We are in fact WINNING, so it is FAR to early to panic or try to work around the system.

 

[Vap0rJay]

Roxics,

Its important to understand that there AREN'T any "new laws" regarding e-cigarettes just yet. The FDA has indicated that they INTEND to issue regulations for e-cigarettes under the Tobacco Act, but I suspect most people will agree that regulating combustible products like pipes and cigars should be the higher priority. The Tobacco Act requires the FDA to submit any proposed regulations to the Secretary of Health to review and consider public comments, so if you are concerned that the FDA may try to make unreasonable regulations, please join the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA) as we closely watch the FDA as well as state and local initiatives that might restrict the availability or affordability of smoke-free alternatives. Charlie Sheen gives the best reason to not panic right now: "Duh...WINNING." We are in fact WINNING, so it is FAR to early to panic or try to work around the system.

Not entirely true... I am stocking up on batteries, atomizers, juices, and getting into DYI just in case. Never hurts to be self sufficient I'm tryin to put myself into the posisition that regardless of what they do... im set for years to come Only way I can give a big old middle finger to the FDA

 

[Thulium]

Not entirely true... I am stocking up on batteries, atomizers, juices, and getting into DYI just in case. Never hurts to be self sufficient I'm tryin to put myself into the posisition that regardless of what they do... im set for years to come Only way I can give a big old middle finger to the FDA

E-cig supplies are generally okay to sit on a shelf for a while so there's no reason to not stock up for rainy days, but there is currently no reason to expect the FDA to ban rechargeable batteries, atomizers, food flavorings, or nicotine any time soon. What the FDA can restrict is the way that e-cig companies MARKET their products. If the FDA somehow manages to pass regulations that effectively "ban" e-cigs, it would then fall to consumer and public health groups like CASAA to educate smokers0 about the benefits of using vaporizers instead of smoking when retailers are not allowed to tell the truth.

 

[juicejunky]

Not entirely true... I am stocking up on batteries, atomizers, juices, and getting into DYI just in case. Never hurts to be self sufficient I'm tryin to put myself into the posisition that regardless of what they do... im set for years to come Only way I can give a big old middle finger to the FDA

Doesn't hurt to stock up, but keep in mind your tastes may change as you vape especially the first year, not to mention all the new technology. If you keep buying years' worth and change every few months, your cupboards get quite full of stuff you may never use. I speak from experience.

I think we 'd get sufficient warning from the good folks at CASAA before we need to stockpile. Other than the raw nicotine, you could get the rest of the raw materials with one trip to your local hardware store and a store with a cake decorating inventory like Michael's.

 

[Vap0rJay]

Doesn't hurt to stock up, but keep in mind your tastes may change as you vape especially the first year, not to mention all the new technology. If you keep buying years' worth and change every few months, your cupboards get quite full of stuff you may never use. I speak from experience.

I think we 'd get sufficient warning from the good folks at CASAA before we need to stockpile. Other than the raw nicotine, you could get the rest of the raw materials with one trip to your local hardware store and a store with a cake decorating inventory like Michael's.

I appreciate the concern. I've been a long time lurker, newer poster here! I've been vaping now since early dec, totally tobacco free 1/12. I have tried a 510, 901, 808, eGO, cartos, tanks, tank mods, box mods, and the like. So far imho nothing to date can touch a 1100 mAH ego battery w/ a dewicked/debridged LR 510 atty direct dripp.

I also do not see myself ever tiring of Mrs T's snickerdoodle (oh... my... *drool*), Viking Vapor's blueberry and bubblegum. So i don't mind stocking up -- if nothing else so I can stop workin my mailman so hard! Plus I've just started getting into DYI so... thanks for the Michael's tip

 

[Stubby]

I was considering setting up a small internet shop and selling some of my liquid creations. But I'm concerned now with the government classifying e-cigs as tobacco products. Does this mean I'll need a license to sell or all kinds of government restrictions added?

Basically is this going to drive small mom and pop e-liquid makers out of business because of the overall cost and process required?

I think some reasonable regulations and a process to go through before anyone can start selling liquid would be a very good thing. It might be nice to know that small time venders aren't mixing up the liquid in the kitchen sink. If that puts a few venders out of business that would not be a bad thing.

Do you have a dedicated clean space where you would be mixing the liquid? Are you going out of your way to insure the liquid does not get contaminated? Are you sure your sources are selling you clean high quality liquid and do you have the means to test if they are? Do you have the means to handle liquid all day without killing yourself and what are they?

These are just a few of the questions I would ask. Just from the fact that you're asking about this issue on a forum tells me you're not even close to answering them.

 

[Motivaper]

"What the FDA can restrict is the way that e-cig companies MARKET their products. If the FDA somehow manages to pass regulations that effectively "ban" e-cigs, it would then fall to consumer and public health groups like CASAA to educate smokers0 about the benefits of using vaporizers instead of smoking when retailers are not allowed to tell the truth."

Has anyone else heard this company's radio ads guaranteeing that their "laser" helps you quit smoking in one hour? If it were true, wouldn't we ALL have tried it? Just wondering how they can even say it?

Vape on!
Laser treatment to stop smoking for quit smoking with Laser | Imagine Laser Works

 

[EvilGnome6]

Do you have a dedicated clean space where you would be mixing the liquid? Are you going out of your way to insure the liquid does not get contaminated? Are you sure your sources are selling you clean high quality liquid and do you have the means to test if they are? Do you have the means to handle liquid all day without killing yourself and what are they?

This.

I suspect there are quite a few vendors who are mixing up their juices on their dining room table with little to no quality control. We can only hope and trust that they are following sanitary practices and sourcing their materials from reputable vendors. I'm not thrilled about that notion and look forward to some regulation to be put in place. At the very least, they should be held to the same standards as food vendors.

 

[LibertyValance]

I think its a pretty safe assumption that anything but tobacco or menthol flavors may eventually be severely restricted or banned. Just as it is today for cigarettes. Its hard to argue for an exemption, as lets face it, as these devices become "cool" kids will be turning to a PV as their first introduction to nicotine. The thought of Halo Tiki juice becoming unavailable is not pleasant for me, but I think we have a couple years before it comes to that. We may all wish PV were thought of as strictly a smoking cessation device, but that is not ultimately going to happen IMHO.

 

[Motivaper]

We may all wish PV were thought of as strictly a smoking cessation device, but that is not ultimately going to happen IMHO.

and yet most all of us came to vaping through a desire to quit smoking!

 

[LibertyValance]

and yet most all of us came to vaping through a desire to quit smoking!

Yeah but I think the cat is out of the bag so to speak. I don't in 5 years that won't be the case. Unless, like the inhalers, they are mandated to be dorky looking and medical in nature.

 

[curiousJan]

I think its a pretty safe assumption that anything but tobacco or menthol flavors may eventually be severely restricted or banned. Just as it is today for cigarettes. Its hard to argue for an exemption, as lets face it, as these devices become "cool" kids will be turning to a PV as their first introduction to nicotine. The thought of Halo Tiki juice becoming unavailable is not pleasant for me, but I think we have a couple years before it comes to that. We may all wish PV were thought of as strictly a smoking cessation device, but that is not ultimately going to happen IMHO.

Ah yes, but I bet Halo could sell a Tiki "beverage" flavoring additive that could easily be added to unflavored juice to mix up just what you want.

Screw you, FDA, adults like flavors too!!

Jan

ETA: Oh, and I don't wish that at all. I'm very grateful to have an alternative or I would return to smoking. Even if I make it all the way to 0 nic (started @24, now @12) I doubt that I will ever put my PV down for good.

 

[LibertyValance]

Ahh, thats a very good point. I feel better now! That said, I am looking forward to regulation. I think it will be a much safer product and better for me. And like you said, nothing to prevent me from adding stuff to the juice later.

Ah yes, but I bet Halo could sell a Tiki "beverage" flavoring additive that could easily be added to unflavored juice to mix up just what you want.

Screw you, FDA, adults like flavors too!!

Jan

ETA: Oh, and I don't wish that at all. I'm very grateful to have an alternative or I would return to smoking. Even if I make it all the way to 0 nic (started @24, now @12) I doubt that I will ever put my PV down for good.

 

[mwa102464]

I think its a pretty safe assumption that anything but tobacco or menthol flavors may eventually be severely restricted or banned. Just as it is today for cigarettes. Its hard to argue for an exemption, as lets face it, as these devices become "cool" kids will be turning to a PV as their first introduction to nicotine. The thought of Halo Tiki juice becoming unavailable is not pleasant for me, but I think we have a couple years before it comes to that. We may all wish PV were thought of as strictly a smoking cessation device, but that is not ultimately going to happen IMHO.

Gonna be awful tough to put the flavoring restrictions on and make it so we cant purchase flavorings from all the flavor companies and just ad it in, I don't see this EVER being a problem or Issue, worst case scenario is the better suppliers will just tell you the recipe or flavorings you will need to buy from them to get XYX Flavor or sell the flavorings all mixed up already so we just dump it into the bottle of premixed Nic

 

[EvilGnome6]

the better suppliers will just tell you the recipe or flavorings you will need to buy from them to get XYX Flavor or sell the flavorings all mixed up already so we just dump it into the bottle of premixed Nic

Some vendors like Vaperite are already selling flavor concentrates so you can add it to whatever PG/VG/Nic base you want.

 

[Thulium]

I think its a pretty safe assumption that anything but tobacco or menthol flavors may eventually be severely restricted or banned. Just as it is today for cigarettes. Its hard to argue for an exemption, as lets face it, as these devices become "cool" kids will be turning to a PV as their first introduction to nicotine. The thought of Halo Tiki juice becoming unavailable is not pleasant for me, but I think we have a couple years before it comes to that. We may all wish PV were thought of as strictly a smoking cessation device, but that is not ultimately going to happen IMHO.

That is not true at all. It is possible that localities could pass laws forbidding retailers from selling flavored tobacco products, but that cannot prevent anyone from buying or using flavors in personal vaporizers or e-cigarettes.

There is no need for "an exemption" for e-cigarettes, the only restrictions on flavors are only applied to specific products. If the FDA attempts to apply flavor restrictions on tobacco products not specified in the FSPTCA, they must provide scientific evidence that the regulation would benefit the public health. So unless the FDA can find evidence that certain flavorings create a public health hazard, they will be unable to ban them.

 

[roxics]

I think some reasonable regulations and a process to go through before anyone can start selling liquid would be a very good thing. It might be nice to know that small time venders aren't mixing up the liquid in the kitchen sink. If that puts a few venders out of business that would not be a bad thing.

I absolutely agree with you about the sanitary concerns. I'm not there yet as you put it, but I'm only gathering info right now. If I do set up shop I would certainly set up a sanitary location to do this. But that said, I think those restrictions should be similar to a local pizza parlor rather than a big pharma development laboratory. There is a difference from setting up a clean room, making sure you trust your suppliers and wearing protective garb head to toe, versus setting up a multimillion dollar laboratory with extensive testing equipment. If those are the requirements, we're going to lose a lot of great vendors because I bet you at this moment 95% of them are mixing in their kitchen or somewhere similar.

Right now buying e-liquid is a lot like buying cookies at a local bake sale.

So while I agree that sanitary conditions should have a certain criteria, my concern is more with pricing the small guy out of the game by making license fees or code too high cost for the small business owner.

 

[SubOnAux24]

"What the FDA can restrict is the way that e-cig companies MARKET their products. If the FDA somehow manages to pass regulations that effectively "ban" e-cigs, it would then fall to consumer and public health groups like CASAA to educate smokers0 about the benefits of using vaporizers instead of smoking when retailers are not allowed to tell the truth."

Has anyone else heard this company's radio ads guaranteeing that their "laser" helps you quit smoking in one hour? If it were true, wouldn't we ALL have tried it? Just wondering how they can even say it?

Vape on!
Laser treatment to stop smoking for quit smoking with Laser | Imagine Laser Works

If You Want to Quit Smoking, an Acupuncture Smoking Cessation Program May Help People even try accupuncture

 

[Vocalek]

I think its a pretty safe assumption that anything but tobacco or menthol flavors may eventually be severely restricted or banned. Just as it is today for cigarettes. Its hard to argue for an exemption, as lets face it, as these devices become "cool" kids will be turning to a PV as their first introduction to nicotine. The thought of Halo Tiki juice becoming unavailable is not pleasant for me, but I think we have a couple years before it comes to that. We may all wish PV were thought of as strictly a smoking cessation device, but that is not ultimately going to happen IMHO.

When you decided to start smoking tobacco cigarettes, was it because you wanted nicotine? At the time, I don't believe I had even heard of nicotine. My friends were doing it, so I went along (good they they were not jumping off cliffs! But the nicotine was what kept me at it, even when I couldn't afford to buy cigarettes. There were not any other choices. If you smoked, you took in nicotine.

Now there is a choice. So if e-cigarettes ever become a fad among kids, if a kid just wants to look cool, he can use an e-cigarette with zero nicotine. An e-cig being used with 0 nic looks no different from one being used with 6, 18, 24, or 36 mg of nicotine. Nobody would know the difference. So this "gateway" theory is just lame! What would be the advantage of switching to tobacco cigarettes? If e-cigs are such a great gateway to smoking tobacco cigarettes, why have so many e-cigarette users lost all desire to smoke the real thing--even those of us who smoked for decades and had a great deal of trouble quitting smoking? Riddle me that.