What percentage of the drinking public wanted to risk using alcohol during prohibition? What percentage of ... smokers risk it? What percentage of football fans play the football tickets?
FDA What happens if/when
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What percentage of the drinking public wanted to risk using alcohol during prohibition? What percentage of ... smokers risk it? What percentage of football fans play the football tickets?
And, of course, there's the ongoing prohibition on a whole slew of so-called illegal drugs that doesn't seem to be bothering either the extralegal market or their clientele.
The best example is prohibition where regular citizens were made into criminals and where street criminals became organized crime. Legal stuff doesn't generate the income and 'complaints' are in the open and are if necessary settled in court rather than by drive-bys. Same would happen with anything that people use habitually - sugar, coffee, iphones
and as someone mentioned, as the formerly illegal stuff goes free market. 
ie. nothing to do with health - only what are the politically correct habits.
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I don't think it's going to happen, but as a hypothetical, let me say this: if vaping was actually outlawed, and my normal vaping-related activities became cause for arrest and/or incarceration, I would take it as a moral obligation to openly break that law until they locked me up.
They plan to tax it at a rate of 5 cents per ml of nicotine. Sounds ok with me.
Oh, I think most of us would pay it and, they know for sure we will, and it does not sound OK to me. Of course everyone realizes that that will just be the start of much loftier goals.
Can you increase the power? For me, 24mg is good at 10watts but 15mg is too much to use at 20watts.
Yeah now that i think about it, if I vape 20 ml of nicotine thats ganna run me a dollar. I vape 2.4% so doing the math thats about 800 ml of 2.4% e liquid.
1 dollar tax on 800 ml of e liquid....
Why? It's a recreational consumer product that doesn't cause death or any known health problems. No one drives erratically or makes questionable decisions while under it's influence. There is no logical reason to tax it higher than any other consumer product except to replace the tobacco taxes that BG has become dependent on.
I have never actually read anywhere that a tax had been decided on but going by what the poster stated as .05 per ml. then I would take that as per ml. of vape juice and I bet the wording will include no nic juice too. Pessimistic? maybe, but probably understated.
They are hungry for revenue, and are turning the masses against vaping so the villagers will take up torches and punish the common foe.
I am genuinely curious what you think politics of vaping will be right before a plausible black market goes into effect?
As I see it, best case scenario would be that all state and federal jurisdictions have passed legislation that says it is now illegal to distribute or sell liquid nicotine. Hence, a black market would plausibly arise to meet demand, and of course present legal risk to buyer and seller in that market.
But another possible scenario, that I see some jurisdictions going with is "that it is illegal to possess it." Or illegal to possess great amounts of it. Thus, all persons who have stocked up more than say 30 ml of it, are those that could, rather easily be seen as black market operators. They may of course deny this, but if we've gotten to point where it is that illegal and that hard to come by, I could see the powers that be wanting to make public example out of those that dared to stock up on this 'evil' substance and who got caught with it.
Therefore, all those who are stocking up right now are taking on a possible risk, that is akin to what black market operators are doing right now.
If you wish to avoid this risk, then best solution would be to have zero eLiquid in your residence or on you at the time that eLiquid is essentially deemed illegal.
For drinking there was no alternative.
For vaping there is, and that is cigarettes.
Also, I think a lot of people who currently vape would just quit vaping, or switch to zero nicotine.
And many would have a stockpile of supplies already if they don't think they can stop or go down to zero.
And I think people that haven't started vaping are not very like to start through a black market.
To me, that leaves a small percentage who would risk a black market.
And I'm not so sure the biggest risk of a black market is the risk of getting caught.
I know for me it wouldn't be considered the biggest risk.
I don't want to inhale anything that anyone could just throw together in their kitchen without any market forces to control for quality.
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Well, I would not quit. I also feel it is my duty to practice civil disobedience when faced with laws I do not agree with. I am quite sure I am not alone on this. Show of hands?
I think the black market will be inevitable, lucrative and once again the money and the power will be snatched up by the bad elements. Criminals and the government. Yes I am aware that is redundant
Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
I think the black market will be inevitable, lucrative and once again the money and the power will be snatched up by the bad elements. Criminals and the government. Yes I am aware that is redundant
Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
If they can't find the actual scientific studies that say that vaping is at least 95% less harmful than smoking, I'm really not worried about them finding nicotine in my freezer.
I'd be more worried about adulterants, like those poor people who died from drinking 'bathtub gin' in the days of prohibition. But that fear wouldn't stop me, if I really needed that nicotine, and I'm pretty sure my husband would go along with it, since if I didn't have nicotine, he'd suffer just as much as I would.
Andria
Are not all kids (under 18) that vape, currently utilizing the black market? I say this to show that people will surely take the risk.
I think if a black market does arise, it will be less people vaping than what is going on now. Tempted to say 'far less' but it is possible that it could be far more as the cool factor for vaping will go up a notch, and if science on vaping is anything like it is now, people (never-vapers) will realize that is a complete joke of a ban.
But I do think it will likely be less and is the intended goal for such a ban. At same time, there is no magical way to end the high demand that currently exists. And banning could arguably make the demand even higher. So, I continue to see it as doom/gloom from our side to say 'vaping will end if such and such ban is put into place.' NYC ordinance right now is good example of this. Yes, it could be illegal to sell flavored eLiquid in NYC. I think most politically aware people aren't terribly surprised that NYC would move in that direction. Or at least give it a shot. But if they succeed, I feel very confident that a black market, for just flavored eLiquid, would ensue. And that the ordinance would be seen as either unenforceable or so low on totem poll that it is treated as not worthy of much enforcement.
I am glad to speak more on this NYC ordinance and happy to do it in CASAA area if deemed appropriate, but I see as with other CTA's, it is mentioned in lots of other threads, and as there is gung-ho faction dedicated to our side of the fight, I'm thinking it okay to have this sort of side discussion in this type of thread where the doom/gloom thing is being discussed.
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