What hardware are you using to get the best out of your aroma juice ?

[Robinowitz]

ruts and first world problems all around!!!
whoopeeeee!!!!



seriously though, me too - it was just part of the experience i hadn't even really thought about but now,the slow vaping during a conversation thing has gotten to be obnoxious and fairly obvious.
one thing i have noticed since is that the increased resistance of the coil to deal with the increased wattage on the kfl/istick combo has cancelled out any shortening of my draw time compared to the lower resistance/lower voltage setups on the provari (it may have even increased it a bit).i think either way you go, you end up with a bottleneck with the kfl's airflow.it seems like if you stray too far outside of any one of the parameters by itself and it's a fast train to burnt juice city.

*shakes fist* "MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sounds like my mechanical baby will continue to get much of my love when out and about. Really like the fast "ignition." Was hoping you, Mr. gutter, would be able to figure it out.
Nonetheless, I have been lurking around the P3 and VF threads. Do like regulated for safety and the friggin dependability of the Provapes can't be beat (at least in my experience).

The journey continues.....

 

[Guttermouth]

Sounds like my mechanical baby will continue to get much of my love when out and about. Really like the fast "ignition." Was hoping you, Mr. gutter, would be able to figure it out��.
Nonetheless, I have been lurking around the P3 and VF threads. Do like regulated for safety and the friggin dependability of the Provapes can't be beat (at least in my experience).

The journey continues.....

well...
it's probably gonna be one of those things where it takes a good amount of tweaking to get dialed in and may not actually be as grim as it seems from the outset.
From the reading i've done, the dna board should be faster with better power control and a larger range than anything else out there - the things i've been playing with lately are not really a fair comparison at all to what the newer generation of devices do on paper.
now that i have a kfl that's specifically dedicated for tweaking in higher wattage ranges, i may hit upon a combo that works -i've been trying different coils and wicking in it but,so far it seems that the extra resistance and mass needed to tame the istick has been a negative in the speed and quality departments. I have the full size provari setup how i like it and have yet to be able to replicate the vapor quality or taste on an identical topper wound to compensate for the istick's overages (or for that matter, trying to work with the isticks higher wattage range without negative effects on taste).I'm not saying it's bad -it's just not as good in the flavor department as a lower voltage,lower resistance,better regulated combination.The coil currently in the istick kayfun is wound to 2.3 ohms so, you can play with a large portion of the isticks range and it's just never as fast,smooth,full or sweet as the provari/kayfun combo or mech/kayfun combo.

of course, this goes into personal preference territory but, what i want ideally is something with the speed of a mech and adjustability and vapor quality on par with the provari. i'm not gonna carry around extra juice bottles or a bunch of batteries or a huge hammond box to do it.at the moment,a 2 second hit on the mech does the trick,the provari takes right at 5 seconds and the istick, almost 2 seconds longer than that.
so, a super fast, provari with a wider useful range in a pocket friendly enclosure and a day's worth of unburned juice is all i want ( ) and i think the dna40 is gonna be the closest to hitting that goal if the vapor quality is as smooth as it's being touted.

all of this is just a long way to say that i don't think higher wattage alone is what i'm looking for. it may be a combination of wattage and amperage (i've noticed that i tend to favor higher amperage/lower resistance combinations over the inverse) and for all i know, the higher amp limit and lower resistance abilities of the p3 and dna may be just the ticket.if i build it or buy it, it looks like a couple of hundred bucks is gonna jump out of my pocket to quell the curiosity in the near future.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I'm currently using a V2 Kayfun clone on a ZNA Robbot clone.
1.0 ohm coil, at 22 watts (4.7 volts), with a two second draw is about perfect.

The flavor is slightly muted at that temperature, with the tradeoff being that the vapor is nice and warm with decent vapor production.

I agree that the Kayfun's airflow is the bottleneck in pushing it's limits, as both the Heron and the Erlkonigin are caple of producing more flavor and vapor...at the expense of going through e-juice at an accelerated rate.

Based on what I've read, the Orchid is basically a Kayfun designed for more airflow and vapor production...at the cost of being almost forced to use dual coils or of being very creative with wick placement on a single coil setup.

Edit: I will be ordering the Zero Modz clone next week, and the DNA clone chip in that is "punchier" than regular DNA style chips...so we'll see how that works out.

 

[hittman]

You folks are way beyond me. I'm happy with the mini nautilus and mini aerotank that I've been running. I am a little curious about the peakomizer but don't know much about it yet. I just haven't been interested in those complicated toppers and tweaking them. It does sound like you're having a good time experimenting with them.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Surgeon General's Warning:
The hobbyist aspects of vaping can be just as expensive and addicting as cigarettes.

 

[hittman]

You've got that right plan. Even though I don't mess with the fancy stuff that you folks use, it can still be expensive trying different things.

 

[KGie]

well...
it's probably gonna be one of those things where it takes a good amount of tweaking to get dialed in and may not actually be as grim as it seems from the outset.
From the reading i've done, the dna board should be faster with better power control and a larger range than anything else out there - the things i've been playing with lately are not really a fair comparison at all to what the newer generation of devices do on paper.
now that i have a kfl that's specifically dedicated for tweaking in higher wattage ranges, i may hit upon a combo that works -i've been trying different coils and wicking in it but,so far it seems that the extra resistance and mass needed to tame the istick has been a negative in the speed and quality departments. I have the full size provari setup how i like it and have yet to be able to replicate the vapor quality or taste on an identical topper wound to compensate for the istick's overages (or for that matter, trying to work with the isticks higher wattage range without negative effects on taste).I'm not saying it's bad -it's just not as good in the flavor department as a lower voltage,lower resistance,better regulated combination.The coil currently in the istick kayfun is wound to 2.3 ohms so, you can play with a large portion of the isticks range and it's just never as fast,smooth,full or sweet as the provari/kayfun combo or mech/kayfun combo.

I'm thinking your problem with the iStick is the same one I'm having, and it don't think is has anything to do with the voltage or wattage, I can get it turned down far enough. The problem is, even when dialed down to get equivalent power, the iStick is to me a harsh vape compared to the same toppers (currently Areotanks for me) on the iTaste VV V3. And I think that's because the VV V3's, just like the Provaris, put out a flat waveform: the voltage is what it is, and it stays there as long as you've got the fire button pressed. Ask for more power, it outputs a higher voltage, and keeps it there as long as the button is pressed.

OTOH -- and I know most of you know this, so forgive me if I'm being tedious here -- PWM, pulse-width-modulated devices like the iStick, like the DNA 30's (but not the 20's) put out a constant voltage (their max voltage) which they cycle on and off during the vape. During the on time they're burning the juice with a higher than average voltage, and doing the off time it's not getting vaporized. There's a lot of talk about whether anyone can taste the difference, whether there's so much thermal inertia in the coil/wick/juice/atty/system that for all practical purposes it's a moot point, or whether it really does make a difference.

Many people say they can tell the difference. I was agnostic on the question until I got the iStick, now I'm a believer -- I can tell the difference. I expect how much a difference one would or would not notice, in addition to individual variations in sensitivity, has to do with the details of a particular setup: a mod whose duty cycle varied between the boost voltage of ten volts and zero volts is likely to produce a different vape then one that PWM's between eight volts and zero, for example. Some atty "systems" (by "system" I mean to include the coil, deck, amount of juice close enough to the coil to contribute to thermal inertia and anything adding to or subtracting from the thermal inertia) are almost certainly higher inertia than others, and while they would be slower to heat up and cool down, it makes sense that they'd produce a better vape with a PWM device than an atty with lower thermal inertia.

Bottom line for me now is I'm passing on PWM mods. DNA 30's (not in the cards anyway with the 40 now available) and iSticks are out. Provaris, DNA 40's, the new Innokin SVD 2.0 in.

A year from now I predict there will be no new PWM mods being introduced from from any serious vendors. (Assuming Deeming doesn't get rid of them first. Little hard to see how they can regulate a flashlight with replaceable bulbs that use standard 510 bulb connectors.

 

[Guttermouth]

I'm currently using a V2 Kayfun clone on a ZNA Robbot clone.
1.0 ohm coil, at 22 watts (4.7 volts), with a two second draw is about perfect.

The flavor is slightly muted at that temperature, with the tradeoff being that the vapor is nice and warm with decent vapor production.

I agree that the Kayfun's airflow is the bottleneck in pushing it's limits, as both the Heron and the Erlkonigin are caple of producing more flavor and vapor...at the expense of going through e-juice at an accelerated rate.

Based on what I've read, the Orchid is basically a Kayfun designed for more airflow and vapor production...at the cost of being almost forced to use dual coils or of being very creative with wick placement on a single coil setup.

Edit: I will be ordering the Zero Modz clone next week, and the DNA clone chip in that is "punchier" than regular DNA style chips...so we'll see how that works out.

the erlkonigin and orchids are both on the list to try for me as well.although, i'm not sure i could afford to burn more juice than i do already

i saw the zero mod clone and thought it was interesting. this guy has some gripes with it (his "fixes" close to the end were hilarious) - have they addressed some of that yet?

 

[olderthandirt]

iStick or L-Rider mini Lambo with Aspire mini vivi's are so perfectly functional for me at the moment.
BVC's on the former, BDC's the latter.

Igo-L with 2ish ohm coils for dripping powered with an Innokin SVD.

Me and hitt are so alike in many ways. Adherents to the KISS principle. But I'm better lookin'!

 

[hittman]

Says you. You've been spending too much time polishing your bones.

 

[Guttermouth]

You folks are way beyond me. I'm happy with the mini nautilus and mini aerotank that I've been running. I am a little curious about the peakomizer but don't know much about it yet. I just haven't been interested in those complicated toppers and tweaking them. It does sound like you're having a good time experimenting with them.

nah man - having a setup you are content with is a very,very good thing.Vaping gear is just like most other technology these days - off the shelf stuff will work for almost everyone but,when you start poking at the edges,the weak spots become apparent.the kayfuns really aren't as bad as they seem from the outside but, i don't know if i had kids and/or a life to speak of that i would have even gone that far given the out of the box options floating around these days (especially when you look at how far they've come from when we started in a comparative sense).looking at it that way, an mvp and a nautilus would have been godsends and i could see very easily being content with a nautilus on an mvp or itaste if i was going places and doing things all day every day.

i will say this though, if you ever get 15 bucks and a weekend free, a kayfun,some cotton and a spool of wire makes for a fun sunday afternoon.

 

[Guttermouth]

I'm thinking your problem with the iStick is the same one I'm having, and it don't think is has anything to do with the voltage or wattage, I can get it turned down far enough. The problem is, even when dialed down to get equivalent power, the iStick is to me a harsh vape compared to the same toppers (currently Areotanks for me) on the iTaste VV V3. And I think that's because the VV V3's, just like the Provaris, put out a flat waveform: the voltage is what it is, and it stays there as long as you've got the fire button pressed. Ask for more power, it outputs a higher voltage, and keeps it there as long as the button is pressed.

OTOH -- and I know most of you know this, so forgive me if I'm being tedious here -- PWM, pulse-width-modulated devices like the iStick, like the DNA 30's (but not the 20's) put out a constant voltage (their max voltage) which they cycle on and off during the vape. During the on time they're burning the juice with a higher than average voltage, and doing the off time it's not getting vaporized. There's a lot of talk about whether anyone can taste the difference, whether there's so much thermal inertia in the coil/wick/juice/atty/system that for all practical purposes it's a moot point, or whether it really does make a difference.

Many people say they can tell the difference. I was agnostic on the question until I got the iStick, now I'm a believer -- I can tell the difference. I expect how much a difference one would or would not notice, in addition to individual variations in sensitivity, has to do with the details of a particular setup: a mod whose duty cycle varied between the boost voltage of ten volts and zero volts is likely to produce a different vape then one that PWM's between eight volts and zero, for example. Some atty "systems" (by "system" I mean to include the coil, deck, amount of juice close enough to the coil to contribute to thermal inertia and anything adding to or subtracting from the thermal inertia) are almost certainly higher inertia than others, and while they would be slower to heat up and cool down, it makes sense that they'd produce a better vape with a PWM device than an atty with lower thermal inertia.

Bottom line for me now is I'm passing on PWM mods. DNA 30's (not in the cards anyway with the 40 out) and iSticks out. Provaris, DNA 40's, the new Innokin SVD 2.0 in.

A year from now there will be no PWM mods on the market. (Assuming Deeming doesn't get rid of them first. Little hard to see how they can regulate a flashlight with replaceable bulbs that use standard 510 bulb connectors.

exactly - i agree.i have an older vamo and the differences are immediately apparent and the istick is the same thing just taken to (what i feel is) an extreme level. the problem is the whole filtering issue and clock rate with pwm. the provari uses pwm just at a higher frequency and with a better filter - so that raises the question, where is the cutoff for acceptable and unacceptable? i think it's impossible to think that that point of acceptable clock or filtering would be a universal point (although, i have seen the provari ruin a lot of people for other devices with one hit..) and we may be in a position in the near future where we see manufacturers trying to creep up the speed while continuing to cheap out on the filters to see what most vapers will put up with.
for me, the istick is just too brutal (for lack of a better term) even when adding in a whole lot of resistance and mass to try and smooth those pulses/heat variations/whatever it is... out.i used it constantly this last week in the configuration mentioned earlier just to be sure and not to be snobby, it just doesn't cut it for me either.i do, however, absolutely love the form factor and user interface.
the svd was looking like a great contender but i'm not sold on the baseball bat-esque shape. i do like the way the p3 looks as well as the vapor shark and knowing my habits, realistically, it would probably be a toss up between the two. i honestly don't think i would get close to hitting the limits on either one any time soon so it just comes down to vapor quality and speed of vapor delivery.

man... speaking of first world problems...sheesh... i need to go do something

 

[hittman]

I on the other hand am happy with my isticks. I run the mini aerotank at 5.6 watts and the mini nautilus at 6.5 and get a satisfactory experience. The settings are just lower than what I run on other devices.

 

[KGie]

exactly - i agree.i have an older vamo and the differences are immediately apparent and the istick is the same thing just taken to (what i feel is) an extreme level. the problem is the whole filtering issue and clock rate with pwm. the provari uses pwm just at a higher frequency and with a better filter - so that raises the question, where is the cutoff for acceptable and unacceptable? i think it's impossible to think that that point of acceptable clock or filtering would be a universal point (although, i have seen the provari ruin a lot of people for other devices with one hit..) and we may be in a position in the near future where we see manufacturers trying to creep up the speed while continuing to cheap out on the filters to see what most vapers will put up with.
for me, the istick is just too brutal (for lack of a better term) even when adding in a whole lot of resistance and mass to try and smooth those pulses/heat variations/whatever it is... out.i used it constantly this last week in the configuration mentioned earlier just to be sure and not to be snobby, it just doesn't cut it for me either.i do, however, absolutely love the form factor and user interface.
the svd was looking like a great contender but i'm not sold on the baseball bat-esque shape. i do like the way the p3 looks as well as the vapor shark and knowing my habits, realistically, it would probably be a toss up between the two. i honestly don't think i would get close to hitting the limits on either one any time soon so it just comes down to vapor quality and speed of vapor delivery.

man... speaking of first world problems...sheesh... i need to go do something

Yah, I love the form factor of the iStick. But like you, I can't stand using it.

On the PWM point, there's nothing inherently wrong with using PWM, it really all depends on whether the output filtering is getting as much ripple (if you can even call it that on something like the iStick -- I'd call it a square wave, but everything is relative) -- where was I? Oh, PWM is fine when it's implemented such that the output filtering is getting as much ripple out of the output signal as you need for the application at hand. Up to (a very high) point, it's easier to smooth out ripple at higher frequencies because you need less capacitance, so the capacitors can be physically smaller -- and cheaper. But it looks to me Eleaf used a low frequency to start with, and then "forgot" to put in any output filtering.

 

[PLANofMAN]

the erlkonigin and orchids are both on the list to try for me as well.although, i'm not sure i could afford to burn more juice than i do already

i saw the zero mod clone and thought it was interesting. this guy has some gripes with it (his "fixes" close to the end were hilarious) - have they addressed some of that yet?

That guy got a fluke. Look up the most recent review posted by Nikkita on Monday for in depth coverage. I'm also sure he destroyed it for a) to up viewership and b) to try to keep his name on the preorder list for the original.

As far as PWM, the ProVari does use it. 800 cycles per second, or 800 Hz. When you run into "taste issues" is on the Vamo 33.3 Hz or even a Sigeli at 100 Hz.

For me, I've found that 120 Hz is about the absolute lowest PWM I can tolerate (VV Kick clone).

 

[KGie]

That guy got a fluke. Look up the most recent review posted by Nikkita on Monday for in depth coverage. I'm also sure he destroyed it for a) to up viewership and b) to try to keep his name on the preorder list for the original.

As far as PWM, the ProVari does use it. 800 cycles per second, or 800 Hz. When you run into "taste issues" is on the Vamo 33.3 Hz or even a Sigeli at 100 Hz.

For me, I've found that 120 Hz is about the absolute lowest PWM I can tolerate (VV Kick clone).

Sorry, I guess my last post wasn't that clear, but they all use PWM, AFAIK -- it's simply the best way to get voltage regulation at the levels we're dealing with here. It's just that the ProVari and DNA 40 (and DNA 20 and some other mods) are doing it at a combination of a high enough frequency with sufficient output filtering that for all intents and purposes you've got a flat output. That flat output is what matters, not how you got it there.

 

[olderthandirt]

Says you. You've been spending too much time polishing your bones.

Shiny as my SVD they are. Good lookin' (-;

 

[Robinowitz]

Love this thread. Must admit that I understand about 1/2 of it, even when I re-read it. Also dig that some of our folks are quite content and some are making it a journey. (Hobby) The bit of tinkering I do is really about fun....and in the early days of being off smokes, it gave me something to do with my hands.

I have a sneaking suspicion that flavors we enjoy most has much to do with our preferred devices. My taste tends to go with what I think of as "bright" or more complex flavors (Not referring to IQ). My ADV is P-38. If it's a tad too warm or muted I can tell immediately. (The same with Mint, Mango, madness). My evening, AM Vape is Black clove. There again, if it's slightly muted that's a no go for me although more heat is tolerable. Am wondering if tobacco lovers have more wiggle room in their taste buds and with fluctuation in devices/toppers?

And Gutter, I think you ought to get a P3 and Vapor Flask then report back. That will help me decide. You go first K?

 

[KGie]

.
.
And Gutter, I think you ought to get a P3 and Vapor Flask then report back. That will help me decide. You go first K?

No love for the Vapor Shark rDNA 40? (It's the one I've got my eye on, but their customer service garners... ah, let's just say less than the best ratings. lol)

 

[PLANofMAN]

Well the P3 does have the optional and programmable hot boost.