What is in the vapour?

[KiwiGrover]

Hi all,
Just wondering. I have read many times that the exhaled vapour is just water vapour, but with ejuice made of a mixture of PG VG Flavourings and Nicotine, where does the water come from?
I'm just sort of interested in the chemistry of the thing, hopefully I absorb most if not all of the nicotine, most of the flavour perhaps stays on the tongue..what happens to the PG VG?
I seem to be able to smell the exhaled vapour, but those around me say that they can't smell it. Perhaps I can't really smell it and it is a residue of the taste?

 

[dice57]

It is water vapor, and it isn't. All the ingredients are made up mostly of, yeah water. When you atomize the juice it is turned into juice vapor, whose primary molecule is made up of water vapor, but it's VG, PG, Favoring vapor, which it's main composition is water.

And yes vape has a sent, more of a fresh essence kind of scent, of the flavor you are vaping, but it doesn't smell bad, it smells gooooood.

 

[Bunnykiller]

It is water vapor, and it isn't. All the ingredients are made up mostly of, yeah water. When you atomize the juice it is turned into juice vapor, whose primary molecule is made up of water vapor, but it's VG, PG, Favoring vapor, which it's main composition is water.

And yes vape has a sent, more of a fresh essence kind of scent, of the flavor you are vaping, but it doesn't smell bad, it smells gooooood.

Even if you ate Kimshi and garlic?

 

[Dampmaskin]

Propylene glycerol is not water, it's ... propylene glycerol. Same kind of things goes for VG.

I honestly have no idea why people refer to it as water vapour.

I mean, it's got oxygen, and it's got hydrogen, yes. But there's no chemical reaction going on afaik, so I cannot fathom how the C₃H₈O₂ would be converted to H₂O in the vaping process. My tentative conclusion is that it isn't.

 

[Charon]

Even if you ate Kimshi and garlic?

Nothing can be done about Kimchi breath. ;> But I totally know a flavour I have to make now!

 

[Katya]

Propylene glycerol is not water, it's ... propylene glycerol. Same kind of things goes for VG.

I honestly have no idea why people refer to it as water vapour.

I mean, it's got oxygen, and it's got hydrogen, yes. But there's no chemical reaction going on afaik, so I cannot fathom how the C₃H₈O₂ would be converted to H₂O in the vaping process. My tentative conclusion is that it isn't.

The vapor consists of propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine and flavorings. That said, there is water mist there too, but AFAIK, nobody knows exactly how much, percentage-wise. In my understanding, since both PG and VG are highly hygroscopic and as such are able to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment (air, our bodies, etc.)--thus adding water to vapor. If you don't believe me, just check the condensation that constantly builds up in clearomizers' center tube and mouthpiece.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I also don't know why people refer to it as water vapor. Yes, the PG and VG pick up water and water vapor is exhaled, but water is only a part of what is exhaled. The nicotine that may get exhaled. Is low enough to be a non issue scientifically speaking I think. The PG and VG are also pretty harmless. Vegetable glycerin is used in fog machines already, and propolyene glycol is used in asthma inhalers. Considering these uses, I doubt they're harmful.

 

[Katya]

I agree--I believe the process is similar to that used in fog machines.

Fog machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So yes, there's plenty of water in the vapor--and fog. The question is how much? I wish somebody would test it.

 

[Katya]

and propolyene glycol is used in asthma inhalers. Considering these uses, I doubt they're harmful.

Not anymore. But PG used to be used in asthma inhalers--in the past.

This is another myth propagated here and elsewhere by proponents of vaping.

 

[MarkD77]

I'd say that many people probably just associate vapor as being water vapor and don't really stop to think about it. I mean, regardless of the chemistry and percentages of what's actually in it, it's easier and sounds more harmless than calling it "propylene-glycol-glycerin-nicotine-food-extract vapor". When explaining what vaping is to others, just hearing the word "vapor" might not sound as harmless as "water vapor", but I typically just say "vapor" and explain a little what's in it.

 

[Charon]

I agree--I believe the process is similar to that used in fog machines.

It's absolutely identical to a heater fog machine. ;>

There's a video floating around somewhere of a guy pouring a bottle of his juice into a commercial 400amp fogger and vaping it through a cardboard tube. For comedic purposes, of course. But it does the exact same thing, flash heats a glycerin/PG mix which condenses in the air, drawing water with it. (That's why you're dehydrated a little by vaping, it's pulling and condensing moisture in saliva as well)

As a note, commercial fog juice can also contain a variable percentage of Mineral Oil, don't vape it or try to use it as a base for your juice, no matter how cheap it might be...

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Not anymore. But PG used to be used in asthma inhalers--in the past.

This is another myth propagated here and elsewhere by proponents of vaping.

Ah. Thank you for the correction. Why was it stopped?

 

[Katya]

Ah. Thank you for the correction. Why was it stopped?

They just found a better carrier. Don't know the details. But not because PG was harmful.

 

[MarkD77]

I was wondering about this as well. PG in itself isn't a harmful substance, but it can cause reactions depending on the person. I actually haven't seen where it's been used in inhalers, but have read a few times now that it's actually been linked to risk of developing asthma, rather than something that helps it.

 

[louis]

If you look at the medications used in nebulizers in a doctors office you will find PG listed. I don't have a rescue inhaler anymore as I don't need it.
I started vaping 3 years ago after smoking the analogs for 48 years, still lucky not to have cancer, & after coughing up crud out of my lungs for about 4 days found i cold breath better. I now can do things that I haven't done for years. I looked into this & found the PG in medications for breathing problems.
If I can find the old inhalers & will update this with the carrier agent.

louis

 

[Katya]

I was wondering about this as well. PG in itself isn't a harmful substance, but it can cause reactions depending on the person. I actually haven't seen where it's been used in inhalers, but have read a few times now that it's actually been linked to risk of developing asthma, rather than something that helps it.

Got links? Never heard of PG contributing to asthma...

That said, even though PG is not commonly used in asthma inhalers anymore in this country (it's still used overseas, I believe), it is used currently in Johnson & Johnson's Nicorette QuickMist.

NICORETTE® | NICORETTE® QuickMist | NICORETTE® products | Stop smoking | NICORETTE® AU

List of ingredients:

Propylene glycol
Anhydrous ethanol
Trometamol
Poloxamer 407
Glycerol
Sodium hydrogen carbonate
Levomenthol
Mint flavour
Cooling flavour
Sucralose
Acesulfame potassium
Hydrochloric acid
Purified water

 

[Katya]

If you look at the medications used in nebulizers in a doctors office you will find PG listed. I don't have a rescue inhaler anymore as I don't need it.
I started vaping 3 years ago after smoking the analogs for 48 years, still lucky not to have cancer, & after coughing up crud out of my lungs for about 4 days found i cold breath better. I now can do things that I haven't done for years. I looked into this & found the PG in medications for breathing problems.
If I can find the old inhalers & will update this with the carrier agent.

louis

Please do. I checked many nebulizers and they don't list PG anymore--I'd love to know if anyone uses PG still. It would be very nice to have actual proof that they do.

 

[twgbonehead]

Actually, there is a high percentage of water in the EXHALED vapor, not in what you inhale. The water comes from your mouth and lungs. This is why you need to keep hydrated while vaping.

 

[rurwin]

There was an animal study done by the US navy IIRC in 1947 on the effects of PG vapour. After six months in a PG atmosphere, they found no harmful effects.

 

[MarkD77]

Got links? Never heard of PG contributing to asthma...

I don't recall for sure where exactly I've heard it mentioned, but here are a few source links from wiki...

Everyday substances increase risk of allergies in children, Swedish study reveals -- ScienceDaily
"The study shows for the first time that the concentration of PGEs, propylene glycol and glycol ethers, in bedroom air was linked to an increased risk of developing asthma, hay fever, and eczema in children,"

Common Household Chemicals and the Allergy Risks in Pre-School Age Children
"A natural-log unit of summed propylene glycol and glycol ethers (PGEs) in bedroom air (equal to interquartile range, or 3.43 – 15.65 µg/m3) was associated with 1.5-fold greater likelihood of being a case (95% CI, 1.1 – 2.1), 1.5-fold greater likelihood of asthma (95% CI, 1.0 – 2.3), 2.8-fold greater likelihood of rhinitis (95% CI, 1.6 – 4.7), and 1.6-fold greater likelihood of eczema (95% CI, 1.1 – 2.3),"

Chemical compounds emitted from common household paints and cleaners increase risks of asthma and allergies in children | HSPH News | Harvard School of Public Health
"researchers found that propylene glycol and glycol ethers (PGEs), commonly found in cleaners and paints and widely considered safe, pose enough risks to toddlers and children to raise concern."


At a glance, none of these sources seem to show any concrete direct cause. Just that studies find a connection between concentrations and risks, which I suppose could end up just being that the PGEs are used in household paints and cleaners which contain other things which are actually the cause. I'm no chemist, so I don't understand in depth. Are these referring specifically to a type of ether and not PG as we're inhaling? I just remember it caught my attention that it mentioned PG separately from ethers and other things involved.