What is up with this "Sub-ohm advisory"?

[Jomiz]

Where is some evidence that what is said is even a little bit true regarding the carcinogens,and holds up enough to be the headline on every ecf page it's this kind of speculation we hate if there is a credible link with some info I would really appreciate it thanks a lot

vape on

 

[Cullin Kin]

First of all, proper punctuation is a blessing. Secondly, someone posted a thread the other day with the exact same question. We all agree it should be edited because there are a lot of unresearched and unverified claims, at least in the inhalation section.

 

[Scaralouche]

First of all, proper punctuation is a blessing.

No, not a blessing. A bloody requirement.

 

[Jomiz]

First of all, proper punctuation is a blessing. Secondly, someone posted a thread the other day with the exact same question. We all agree it should be edited because there are a lot of unresearched and unverified claims, at least in the inhalation section.

I just saw it today and it caught my eye- and I lol"d at you,re first comment!.

Thanks for the reply if you could link the other thread I would appreciate it I looked but had trouble finding it maybe I didn't look very hard.

Happy vaping

 

[Baditude]

This? The piece was written by our ECF forum administrator, Rolygate.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/562106-ecf-sub-ohm-advisory.html

"2. Inhalation issues

It is likely that the super-heating of e-liquids that takes place in an RBA run at less than 1 ohm will create some toxic materials.

This is just plain logic and should not be seen as anything radically new: burning up refills creates some nasties and there is no way around that. It is likely that materials such as acrolein and aldehydes will be seen in measurable quantities, and some pyrolytic compounds may even be created.

Inhalation of sub-ohm vapor is probably not the same as regular vapor and therefore may have additional risk. It is likely to create conditions where potential carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) will be seen in measurable amounts, and so there must be some elevation of risk, which will escalate as resistance goes down and heat goes up.

We can regard this as significantly more important than battery safety at this time: there are no reported incidents of exploding APVs or house fires caused by sub-ohm rigs self-destructing; but there are probably thousands of people inhaling materials that are simply not present in vapor from a regular clearo run at 2.5 ohms.

Buttery flavors
We have to add a specific note on butter/creamy flavors here. Diacetyl or a similar substitute is present in some flavors, and it is likely that many of this flavor group have exactly the same issues as diacetyl, since they are all fairly similar molecules. Because of the sheer volume of liquid consumed and the volume of vapor created by sub-ohming, all issues related to refill liquid safety are magnified. Previously it was considered that consumption of 10ml of refill liquid per day was high; now there are rumors that some sub-ohmers may even consume 20ml a day.

Until more information is available, our advice is that all butter/cream type flavors are avoided for sub-ohm use (inhalation of the butter-popcorn-custard flavoring diacetyl can cause the irreversible degenerative lung disease bronchiolitis obliterans, aka 'popcorn lung').

This warning is not pure speculation:
A research study has already indicated that the vapor created by high-power vaping contains more potentially toxic compounds
Dr Farsalinos' recent study reports that a very high percentage of cream-type flavors contain diacetyl even when the vendor claims there is none present
He states that 7 out of 10 vendors who claim there is no diacetyl in their products are not correct."

 

[rolygate]

Please see this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/585470-forum-posts-without-sources.html



[edit]
Moved the thread to an open access area.

 

[spartanstew]

Says I don't have permission to access that post.

 

[tj99959]

Roly
Need to put the post where access is not restricted.

Just as a general statement; the more extreme we become with our vaping, the more hazards we will encounter.

Which has more risk?
this

or this

 

[LDS714]

Please see this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/585470-forum-posts-without-sources.html

Would love to, but can't. It seems to be locked down.

 

[Cullin Kin]

No, not a blessing. A bloody requirement.

lol

I just saw it today and it caught my eye- and I lol"d at you,re first comment!.

Thanks for the reply if you could link the other thread I would appreciate it I looked but had trouble finding it maybe I didn't look very hard.

Happy vaping

This site's search function has a mind of it's own, and hardly proves useful. Lol I can't quite remember the title of the thread but I believe it's something similar to the title of this. Try doing a google search and include ECF in the keywords, that seems to be the best way to search for threads on this site.

Please see this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/585470-forum-posts-without-sources.html

I'm able to access this thread just fine.

 

[rolygate]

Apologies, that thread was in a restricted access area for IRC Mods.

Moved to an open access area.

 

[krewblink]

Roly Gate, I believe you need to re-edit that post, especially in this crucial time during the FDA regulation comment period.. That really reflects badly on the e-cig community and is not really even proven.

Edit* also with the diacetyl flavoring, Most Of the Fruit extract companies have removed that ingredient in the United states, TPA,Capella,FW,Natures Flavors, The real worry should be the replacements like acetoin, etc. Seesh. But anyhow at a crucial time we dont need any bad publicity.

 

[Ryedan]

I don't think the post should be changed. Possible health risks from high power vaping is IMO very valid and not enough of us think about this. I feel warning people about this is worth what I see as a very small risk of doing so being used against us.

As for the diacetyl etc, see this post from Dr. Farsalinos and click on the link for test results. If I remember correctly, 7 out of 10 sweet juices tested positive for diacetyl and/or acetyl propionyl, even those the juice vendors claim is diacetyl free. This testing is done and the data is out there.

 

[rolygate]

Roly Gate, I believe you need to re-edit that post, especially in this crucial time during the FDA regulation comment period.. That really reflects badly on the e-cig community and is not really even proven.

Edit* also with the diacetyl flavoring, Most Of the Fruit extract companies have removed that ingredient in the United states, TPA,Capella,FW,Natures Flavors, The real worry should be the replacements like acetoin, etc. Seesh. But anyhow at a crucial time we dont need any bad publicity.

Sorry, which part is incorrect, specifically?

As regards the toxic adulterants (diacetyl etc.), 7 out of 10 e-liquids tested recently contained them even though all vendors claimed they were clean. You can ignore what any vendor tells you and assume the product is contaminated since the odds are that it is, unless they publish a test certificate on their website.

The FDA's mission is to shut down vaping any way they can. It's what they are paid to do. You can expect things to get very tough in a year or two, and the scientific evidence and heath issues are completely irrelevant. What we do or don't do is of no importance whatsoever in the context of the coming regulations - that has all been decided already.

 

[crxess]

Have to suspect this has to do with the latest Hit low and go for points post on the blog of ......ahmmmmm.

I hardly feel being a member on multiple forums requires doing someone else work for them.

Here is a thought. Research for one's self. Eliminate he said/she said.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Where is some evidence that what is said is even a little bit true regarding the carcinogens,and holds up enough to be the headline on every ecf page it's this kind of speculation we hate if there is a credible link with some info I would really appreciate it thanks a lot

Vape on

Runonsentence?

The amount of information available on this top topic is immense. To sum it up on one post is impossible. Each individual needs to do their own research as to the possible effects of anything you put into your body from food, to liquids to the air we breathe as well as vaping. To "sound alarms" and to be alarmist after reading 2 paragraphs of a post is not a good use of anyone's time. All the information you need is at the tips of your fingers. Okay, off my SB.

 

[Susan~S]

Have to suspect this has to do with the latest Hit low and go for points post on the blog of ......ahmmmmm.

I hardly feel being a member on multiple forums requires doing someone else work for them.

Here is a thought. Research for one's self. Eliminate he said/she said.

Ditto! ....

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Awesome. I sub ohm at .5 and all my juices at the moment are somewhat custard


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ed_C]

I see this as the vaping community being responsible and knowledgeable about what they are doing. I don't see this as bad publicity.

 

[Ed_C]

Roly
Need to put the post where access is not restricted.

Just as a general statement; the more extreme we become with our vaping, the more hazards we will encounter.

Which has more risk?
this

or this

I don't know, when I used to climb, it was when I was closer to the deck, that I got hurt.