Just wanted to clarify this, as I can understand this, but I do believe this should be mentioned. It's perfectly fine to discuss how we need to educate people so that they are aware that e-cigs are nothing like analogs. How we need to separate ourselves from "smokers" because that's no longer what we are. But yet I was part of a discussion about a device that to me and others "looked" like it was designed for illegal use. I tried to bring up the fact that if us being grouped in with smokers was bad, that us being grouped in with using illegal substances would be even worse for us. To me, this is something that we should be allowed to discuss as this could affect our future. One journalist getting a snapshot of somebody using something like this, then writing an article about how it's an "e-cig", and now all the anti-smokers have even more to hold against us. I understand the need to close and delete threads where people talk about how to use our vaporizers for illegal use. Or when people talk about that kinda stuff just to talk about it. This was just one particular instance I'm referring to. I'm past that part, it was closed, I understand. My point to this thread is this, should a thread that is strictly discussing e-cigs, and our future as vaporers, still be automatically banned/closed because it mentions illegal substances, even if it's for the good of the forum?
What we can and can't discuss on ECF
- Thread starter GIMike
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Short answer. Maybe.
Longer answer: we don't allow discussions about drug flavors, drug paraphernalia, vaping prescription or illegal/illicit drugs. As soon as you start saying a mod looks like a [insert piece of drug paraphernalia here] or ask "can a PV be used to vape [insert drug here]?", or say "hey i want a flavor that tastes like [insert drug here]", you have stepped beyond what is allowed on this forum.
There really isn't any discussion. We'll either edit, close, or delete the post depending on the situation.
Longer answer: we don't allow discussions about drug flavors, drug paraphernalia, vaping prescription or illegal/illicit drugs. As soon as you start saying a mod looks like a [insert piece of drug paraphernalia here] or ask "can a PV be used to vape [insert drug here]?", or say "hey i want a flavor that tastes like [insert drug here]", you have stepped beyond what is allowed on this forum.
There really isn't any discussion. We'll either edit, close, or delete the post depending on the situation.
I'm not a mod and do not speck for the ECF but I think this might help you.
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NUMBER TWO:
The rule against talking about recreation drugs tends to reap a few warnings and infractions.
To explain why this rule exists is best described in post 28 of this thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/69061-police-ourselves-3.html
I have zero tolerance for this and posts with sexual content and racial remarks. No ifs, ands, or buts about it, I will enforce these rules each and every time.
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http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/sticky-forum/70953-ecf-forum-rules-new-members-read.html
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NUMBER TWO:
The rule against talking about recreation drugs tends to reap a few warnings and infractions.
To explain why this rule exists is best described in post 28 of this thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/69061-police-ourselves-3.html
I have zero tolerance for this and posts with sexual content and racial remarks. No ifs, ands, or buts about it, I will enforce these rules each and every time.
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http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/sticky-forum/70953-ecf-forum-rules-new-members-read.html
I understand what the OP is talking about.
I have had several people suggest that I was using a device for nefarious purposes , and I had to explain that no in fact it was a smoking cessation device that still delivered nicotine without all the excess toxins. Perhaps the key here is to develop these devices to less resemble nefarious paraphernalia. How? don't know. But it is something that needs to be both discussed properly and remedied in some way over the course of time.
Btw, I use clearomizers , so I REALLLY get some looks!
I have had several people suggest that I was using a device for nefarious purposes , and I had to explain that no in fact it was a smoking cessation device that still delivered nicotine without all the excess toxins. Perhaps the key here is to develop these devices to less resemble nefarious paraphernalia. How? don't know. But it is something that needs to be both discussed properly and remedied in some way over the course of time.
Btw, I use clearomizers , so I REALLLY get some looks!
I can see and agree with those last 2 reasons. However, it's the first one I'm unsure of. If speaking of a device in the sense that "hey man, this looks like what I used to have back in the day!" or whatever for discussion of drug use, I agree with that. I guess that thread was going that direction even though there were some of us, you included, trying to redirect it the right way. I was just hoping that a discussion about devices like that, only in reference to the image it gives us as a group, would be allowed. I just had to delete a bunch of stuff from this reply as I was wandering off into what should be it's own thread, if it were allowed
For the sake of all-you could create a google chat room to have those types of discussions-Just a thought.
I know PIF used to have an outside chat that was linked in their sub-forum for outside chats.
I have seen over the past 18 months-that certain discussions cannot be had. There is always someone going to come in and take it in the wrong direction-always.
I know PIF used to have an outside chat that was linked in their sub-forum for outside chats.
I have seen over the past 18 months-that certain discussions cannot be had. There is always someone going to come in and take it in the wrong direction-always.
This isn't the place for all discussions. A line must be drawn somewhere. I think its drawn in a pretty fair place. IMO there isn't much to discuss on that narrow topic.
But I think it is a topic that should be brought up here as it could affect all who vape....
Could affect vapers. Yes. That's been said. The moderators, managers, and owner know that and probably agree, but it conflicts with the rules which serve the larger goal of keeping this place as respectable as possible. They aren't going to change the rules because you post it a few more times.
All forums have their own set of rules and decorum .. I don't want ECF to degrade into something it's not, and at the same time, the OP does make a valid point .. ECF also has an auto censor ..
Much worse than the OP's question, to me anyway, are the health issue threads that get downright nasty at times when anyone questions the heath benefits of a PV and what not .. or posts a health issue they have that they think may be related to the PV ..
Much worse than the OP's question, to me anyway, are the health issue threads that get downright nasty at times when anyone questions the heath benefits of a PV and what not .. or posts a health issue they have that they think may be related to the PV ..
The health argument issue is about the same as the fanboy one, where people either flame a poster or jump in to agree if the OP is criticised. I don't think there is any way of stopping it as people have strong opinions about such things.
I think it is naive to believe that e-cigs will not harm somebody somewhere; on the other hand, if we go too far down the path of saying they will cause some harm to some people, we are adding to the antis' ammunition. It's hard to strike a balance but that is what is needed. Let's face it, if 60 million smokers all converted to e-cigs, the idea that no one would die after that date is plain crazy - but it's something we have to 'hide' for political reasons. Same as the fact that eventually, many 'smokers' will start out with e-cigs and not tobacco. Actually that's a good thing, but it is not politically acceptable just now...
I think it is naive to believe that e-cigs will not harm somebody somewhere; on the other hand, if we go too far down the path of saying they will cause some harm to some people, we are adding to the antis' ammunition. It's hard to strike a balance but that is what is needed. Let's face it, if 60 million smokers all converted to e-cigs, the idea that no one would die after that date is plain crazy - but it's something we have to 'hide' for political reasons. Same as the fact that eventually, many 'smokers' will start out with e-cigs and not tobacco. Actually that's a good thing, but it is not politically acceptable just now...
I agree that this forum should not degrade itself to the point of discussing all the things that it has banned related to illegal uses. I don't agree with anything those posts would be related to and understand the majority of those reasons. This forum should be about discussing the e-cig, it's legal uses, it's affect on people individually and the future of our nicotine endeavours. If you had seen the device I'm referring to, you might have a better understanding, but I won't mention it here so that we can keep this on topic. But I will say that to me, it looked to me as if it were crafted to look like a certain device used strictly for illegal purposes. I was just imagining how if this device, or I'm sure others that are out there, were used in public, how badly this would look for us in general. To me, this would be like the church not discussing how to deal with child molesting clergy because it's illegal and talking about it is a bad thing. If they refuse to discuss it, maybe it would be like it doesn't happen and it's not their concern? That's just an example that came first to my mind, don't read any more into it's meaning than that. My $.02, and if it's really that big of a deal, I'm broke and can't afford any more pennies, so we can stop it where it is if you'd like.
I would hope that people would be smart enough to refrain from using such a device in public if it would cause a problem. As far as discussing "illegal" things on here, that would depend on what your local laws are so I wouldn't necessarily label it as such. That is of course if I am interpreting the point of this thread correctly. If you are talking about something that is completely illegal everywhere then it would make sense 
Well, discussions of that nature are prohibited here pretty much exclusively. I was just saying maybe we should open it up when it comes to discussing hardware/liquids/stores etc, if they perhaps should be excluded or not here on ECF due to their possible affect for all of us and our future, as it hangs in the balance right now and should be treated very carefully. Speaking only of "good" things and banning bad ones seems to be counter-productive. It's all about perception after all.
People will always find new ways to twist things. I personally think that the option of vaping medicine instead of nicotine is great for certain people. I am not too concerned about my "vaping future" and would gladly prove that what I am vaping is legal if asked. I do agree that it should be treated carefully and as long as people think about how they word things before posting, they should be fine
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Agreed .. .. I participate in only a few Forums, and the main one I frequent is technology related where things are more "cut and dried" .. however, I believe that the underlying purpose of a Forum, in the classic sense, is an exchange of information / debate / observation / personal experience / ... done respectfully as possible ..
The issue of sidestepping or hiding, even denial, of some issues or concerns is counterproductive to the whole cause, IMO .. since if there is an issue, it is still an issue .. thus, a full discourse, warts and all, seems to be the best action ..
One of the most common phrases in the english language has to be "it looks just like a <fill in the blank>. Consider, that bottle of Root Beer in a brown bottle "looks just like" a real beer.
A hand rolled pipe tobacco cigarette "looks just like a" *****. Many common household items "look just like" something they are not, depends on what direction your thoughts go, or how unaware you are of their real purpose.
A discussion of using or not using something because it "looks just like a" seems counterproductive to me.
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A hand rolled pipe tobacco cigarette "looks just like a" *****. Many common household items "look just like" something they are not, depends on what direction your thoughts go, or how unaware you are of their real purpose.
A discussion of using or not using something because it "looks just like a" seems counterproductive to me.
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