What wire to buy?

[Blazr]

Mmmmkay, I bought a box of 500' rayon at Sallys, bought coil master kit which came w/10ft of 26g wire, picked up a Royal Hunter X and Tobeco Stargate RTA $15 each yesterday (holiday clearence). So now wut???

Steam engine confuses me to say the least. I'm thinking in the future I will want a Etheon because I guess it's a Hadaly that doesn' leak?

My issue is this,, flavor chasing! Due to a medication (adderall) it does something weird to my senses. I drink tons of water plus hot teas each day. I've practically sworn off most caffine. Gawd I miss black teas....

It's not olfactory fatigue or dehydration. I know when I haven't drank enough and try to avoid most of the time.

As of last week I started buying 0mg e-liquids. Even my favorite took a taste hit because of that. I hope once all my juices are 0mg, my brain will come to like them as well.

On top of this I'm a super smeller. Boo to those who don't believe some people like myself continued to smoke to avoid smelling the world. Smells can trigger migraines and nausea for me. I never really lost much of my taste and only some sense of smell smoking. I smell things no one else can smell, even as a smoker. vaping is amazing alternative as long as I can taste it...

Saturday will be 18 weeks ZERO ciggys. I'm amazed at how easy my transition was because I went straight into DL sub ohming. 36 yrs, multiple quits and fails, used every quit aid from the horrid nasal spray to lozenges. Still keep the 2mg for in case of emergency can't vape times ; )

I have a Revenger and a broke 510 on a G priv ( any links to fix would be appreciated.

My tanks are Baby beast w/GT4 coil, NRG & Big Baby w/GT2 coils using non or lightly sweetened tobacco/cereal/bakery juices. I run these tanks at the low end of coil rate.

Blazer Pro w/.03 ceramic coil using menthol like juices. I run at 85 watts and it is a cool wonderful vape with tons of clouds. Unless I chain vape then it gets a wee bit hot. This tank I get very little flavor from and is why I'm using menthol juices in it.

3 Tobeco w/.5 coil and can run any juice with on point flavor. I run these at 37w to start and end up around 44w by coil change.

I have to change coils at about a week to wash because flavor becomes muted. I do a quick hot water boil, then PGA soak, then warm water rinse soak, air dry...

I would love to learn how to rebuild the Tobeco coil heads. I know the gage is smaller than 26g and they use a parallel build. Many wraps. I like the simplicity of drop in and go, no leaks ect.. I'm a chain vaper with small children around so tanks are a must for me on weekends and evenings. Dripping is doable during the day.

So besides to rebuild those coil heads, I need to know what size wire to buy and type of coils to build for the Stargate and Royal Hunter X to get similar results as my Tobeco Super tanks? I do have a drill.

Bought my son a N2 and I tried it out using the .7 coil running it about 21w. While it was restictive, it was still a flavorful enjoyable vape. I could use this as a stealth vape lol.

I want dense cool/warm small clouds rich in flavor which would be equivalent to my super tanks. But wouldn't mind trying a build to get into the 30-ish watt range. I do not wish to vape over 50w except on my Pro. I'm beginning to think less may be more for me personally due to my med/taste issue.

I know this is a long drawn out post, but thought it might be helpful in getting opinions and insight. Oh one last thing, I'm pretty sure I have a sensitivity to PG. I won' be buying any juice less than 70/30 and may have to switch to 80/20. Still trying to figure that out....

 

[Baditude]

I'm not familiar with any of the gear that you listed. My advice would be to do searches on You Tube of the tanks you listed and see what those reviewers are using.

My personal motto with building coils is using the K.I.S.S. method. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

I tend to use 26 - 28 gauge kanthal wire. I like to use 2.5 - 3 mm inner diameter coils because its easier for my tired old eyes to see while wicking my Rayon. I make simple compressed coils because I'm convinced they work better for me than any exotic build. Single or dual coil builds depending upon the RBA. I never build lower than 0.6 ohm total because I like to have a margin of safety for my battery. I ALWAYS use Steam Engine coil calculator to confirm the safety of my builds, and always check the resistance on an ohm meter before firing it on a mod.

With that said, you may find some useful information in my blog below:

Information Resources for Your First RBA​

 

[stols001]

I'd say, if steam-engine is confusing you but you have wire with the kit, just start with that. Enter the Kanthal and gauge. It's not too hard. Coil diameter is the diameter of the jig you wrap it on. Coil legs are the length from the coil to EACH leg (total) in mm (you can guestimate a little here). Once you have all that, you will receive instructions in wrapping. Starting with a contact coil is probably easier.

You can see how you like what you have and use it for initial experiments, it is what I did with mine. I mostly use SS wire that's 26 or 28 gauge nowadays.

As far as rebuilding store coils, youtube will be your friend there, Batitude is correct.

Anna

 

[VNeil]

I think Baditude gave you some great advice on the coils. For the past year or two I've been building exclusively on 27 ga Kanthal, 3mm ID, 7/8 turns, dual coil, for a final build around 0.7 ohms. I like relatively higher resistance (in the sub-ohm age) on my coils because all else equal higher resistance yields larger surface area on the coil, and that should generate more vapor and more flavor. I'm not a cloud chucker, I just like a good warm vape with high flavor.

I like 27ga because it is not too bulky and difficult to work with, but it is thick enough to be robust. I rebuild the coil when it no longer "steam cleans" back to gun metal gray, replacing it when it it stays dark/black, and I've never had one break on me since that happens long before the coil physically fails. Your 26 ga should be fine to get started. Drop down to 27 if you don't like working with it or want more surface area on the coil.

My experience with drippers is that the smaller the cavity (chamber) the more flavor. That was the idea behind the original Derringer. I vaped a clone briefly but I did not like the ergonomics, particularly the tiny mouthpiece. I bought a number of Royal Hunters (the original, not the newer X). Then I tried a Royal Hunter Mini. I liked the RH Mini so much I stopped buying new RDA's for the most part because it was a solution in search of a problem. I vape the RH Mini at 30W most of the time and I think that is the sweetspot for that RDA and my coil builds. I use KGD organic cotton wicks. You can find RH Mini's for as low as $15 or so if you look around. They are easy to build on and the screw holes bottom out right at the coil wire holes so it is almost impossible over-tighten the coil lock screw and clip the wire. Which I find a PITA in most other RDA's I've used. I don't mind rebuilding but I don't want it to be an art form/advanced hobby. I just want a good and cheap vape, and minimize my consumable costs.

ETA: I also like the chuff tip that comes with the RH Mini. It is NOT swappable so you need to like the supplied chuff tip.

There may be better RDAs out there for you, I'm not the guy that can give you a review of 100 different ones. But I would suggest you try an RH Mini.

 

[Blazr]

I think Baditude gave you some great advice on the coils. For the past year or two I've been building exclusively on 27 ga Kanthal, 3mm ID, 7/8 turns, dual coil, for a final build around 0.7 ohms. I like relatively higher resistance (in the sub-ohm age) on my coils because all else equal higher resistance yields larger surface area on the coil, and that should generate more vapor and more flavor. I'm not a cloud chucker, I just like a good warm vape with high flavor.

I like 27ga because it is not too bulky and difficult to work with, but it is thick enough to be robust. I rebuild the coil when it no longer "steam cleans" back to gun metal gray, replacing it when it it stays dark/black, and I've never had one break on me since that happens long before the coil physically fails. Your 26 ga should be fine to get started. Drop down to 27 if you don't like working with it or want more surface area on the coil.

My experience with drippers is that the smaller the cavity (chamber) the more flavor. That was the idea behind the original Derringer. I vaped a clone briefly but I did not like the ergonomics, particularly the tiny mouthpiece. I bought a number of Royal Hunters (the original, not the newer X). Then I tried a Royal Hunter Mini. I liked the RH Mini so much I stopped buying new RDA's for the most part because it was a solution in search of a problem. I vape the RH Mini at 30W most of the time and I think that is the sweetspot for that RDA and my coil builds. I use KGD organic cotton wicks. You can find RH Mini's for as low as $15 or so if you look around. They are easy to build on and the screw holes bottom out right at the coil wire holes so it is almost impossible over-tighten the coil lock screw and clip the wire. Which I find a PITA in most other RDA's I've used. I don't mind rebuilding but I don't want it to be an art form/advanced hobby. I just want a good and cheap vape, and minimize my consumable costs.

ETA: I also like the chuff tip that comes with the RH Mini. It is NOT swappable so you need to like the supplied chuff tip.

There may be better RDAs out there for you, I'm not the guy that can give you a review of 100 different ones. But I would suggest you try an RH Mini.

That sounds right up my ally!

I ended up buying a Demon Killer pack and right off that bat, the first coil was supposed to be .85 Clapton coil. Well, uhmm, no! It homed out at .64 (single coil build) and I'm running it at my happy 44w : )

My first wick ever too, using Rayon. Odd taste first few hits but wasn't icky. No leaks and one side could have been fluffier, but the long strands are good I think.

Thanks for the Rayon thread with pics and video, it made my first attempt grand. My juice tastes completely different and super yummy, where before it was just bland. Wow just wow!

 

[Foggyroomz]

If you are looking for a great flavor device to run at low wattage that you can cutomize your experience and also have it be something that suites all needs, the Tobeco Kay fun V5 is a wonderful device it is a RTA so it's a tank that you can rebuild and allows you to custom tailor your vape to what you need. Another suggestion would be get some quality cotton wick because rayon tends to mute flavors in my experience and it also masks others. As far as building a coil do yourself a favor and find out what the ohms per foot of the material is that you are using to make your coil with. Then you can determine how much material in inch length you will need to achieve desired range. Remember that when you make 2 coils to run in a device it cuts the ohm rating of the single coil almost in half so if a single coil is say .80 running 2 identical coils may come out around between .40 and .45 area. The OBS engine nano is another excellent single coil RTA that I have used and produces excellent flavor and can chuck clouds if that is what you desire, the airflow can accommodate MTL or DL vaping styles and can run 25w to 150w depending on your build.

 

[Blazr]

Thank you for the suggestions. I decided to be daring and coiled /wicked the Tobeco Stargate RTA. Well the coil part was okay but using the Rayon proved a disaster.

It leaked like a siv and now that I've cleaned up everything,, think my next go at it will be with cotton.

As for flavor with the Rayon, it's great on the Royal Hunter X.

If I fail again with the cotton, I'm just gonna put it back in box til I get better at all this.

All I want to do is recreate the vape experience I get from my Tobeco 25mm Super Tanks using the .5 stock coils running 42/45w.

The only reason I bought these two was because they were on clearance for $15 each. I figured at that price I'd learn a little bit and cuss maybe a little more lolol whilst teaching myself what not to do ; )

 

[stols001]

Rayon shrinks when wet. You have to almost overstuff the coil (I twist/pull while holding on to the coil gently with my nail) and then work on length and thinning. Having it really tight in the coil (tighter than cotton) should clear that up for you, but it sounds like you are off to a great start

Anna

 

[Belhade]

With the builds you mentioned, using 26g kanthal aiming for around .5Ω should suit you fine, that's what I use on some of my devices.

 

[Foggyroomz]

Rayon is not going to work in a RTA it does not swell like cotton does so you will end up with tremendous leaking issues. I suggest using a cotton like native wicks, vaper's choice cotton, or coolwhicks as they are more straight fiber and wick very efficiently, these have always worked best in my RBA and RTA applications, as much as I don't care for it much the cottonbacon V2 isn't bad but I find it breaks down much quicker and has a bit longer break in time, however is cheaper than the others I have mentioned by 4 or 5 dollars. I have not messed with a Tobeco Stargate so unfortunately I can not give advice on wicking it, but rule of thumb is you want the cotton to move trough the coil with a fair amount of resistance but not enough that it starts moving the coil and then you want to fluff the ends so that they expand creating a barrier but not so much that you get dry hits.

 

[vapdivrr]

. Another suggestion would be get some quality cotton wick because rayon tends to mute flavors in my experience and it also masks others. .

Quality cotton? Rayon mutes and masks flavors? I could accept a close comparison in which you slightly prefer cotton, but to say this simply means you did not wick rayon correctly


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[vapdivrr]

Rayon is not going to work in a RTA it does not swell like cotton does so you will end up with tremendous leaking issues.

come on man...you serious. ...rayon works just as well as cotton in any tank including rtas.....although I prefer rayon slightly more, cotton is great also, but your statement is like me saying cotton is no good in rta's. ..if I made that statement, you would definitely know I must be doing something wrong...



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Belhade]

Cotton and rayon each have their benefits, but must be used differently.

 

[ScottP]

You decide on a wire based on a few questions:
1. Do I want to use Temp Control? If yes then I suggest SS316L, if no then SS316L or Kanthal will work.
2. What resistance am I targeting? .25, .5, 1.0, 1.5 etc.
3. What diameter of coil am I wanting to use? 2mm, 3mm, 4mm etc.

The first question determines wire type, the second 2 are used to determine gauge. Of course if you want to use exotics such as Claptons, Aliens, Staples, etc. you need to know the ohms per some unit of length (inch, mm, foot, etc,)

 

[Letitia]

Thank you for the suggestions. I decided to be daring and coiled /wicked the Tobeco Stargate RTA. Well the coil part was okay but using the Rayon proved a disaster.

It leaked like a siv and now that I've cleaned up everything,, think my next go at it will be with cotton.

As for flavor with the Rayon, it's great on the Royal Hunter X.

If I fail again with the cotton, I'm just gonna put it back in box til I get better at all this.

All I want to do is recreate the vape experience I get from my Tobeco 25mm Super Tanks using the .5 stock coils running 42/45w.

The only reason I bought these two was because they were on clearance for $15 each. I figured at that price I'd learn a little bit and cuss maybe a little more lolol whilst teaching myself what not to do ; )

The rayon wasn't a disaster, you just need to learn better wicking techniques or you may have an oring issue. I'm leaning towards you just need to watch some youtube videos to develope your wicking. You may find you prefer a different wattage and resistance from various atomizers. I prefer lower ohms in my rdas for example. Trial and error is part of the journey. My advice to you is, decide to enjoy the journey and laugh off the mishaps.

 

[ScottP]

It is important to note that cotton expands when wet, and supposedly rayon shrinks a bit when wet. I haven't personally used rayon but that is what I have heard. So using rayon you need a lot more wick crammed into the coil than you do cotton.

 

[Foggyroomz]

come on man...you serious. ...rayon works just as well as cotton in any tank including rtas.....although I prefer rayon slightly more, cotton is great also, but your statement is like me saying cotton is no good in rta's. ..if I made that statement, you would definitely know I must be doing something wrong...



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I wasn't saying rayon was garbage or anything, I used it for a while but I found that my flavors did taste different between rayon and cotton, each pronounced and muted different flavors that I use in different ways. I also found that rayon produced an after taste that I didn't have with my cotton builds, everyone's taste buds are different and for those that use it and enjoy it more power to you, if you have found a way to quit smoking and enjoy your vape experience I am glad and proud of your accomplishment, everyone's vape journey leads them in a different direction the one thing we all share in common is that we vape. Its like someone saying that i'm a psycho because I like a very hot vape while someone else likes a cool to slightly warm is a puss. That's not the case we just have different styles. I also found that for my RTA experience with rayon was less than satisfactory it either leaked horribly or it gave nasty dry hits I could not find the happy medium and if you have ever had a rayon dry hit you would know what I mean when I say you might as well smoke a set of Yoga pants. I have never had this trouble with Native wicks or vapers choice cotton. Heck I vaped using organic cotton cheesecloth for a while because it handles extreme heat amazingly, until the store I was getting it from closed up and I could not find it locally anymore. I don't know if my vape style is too hot for rayon or what but I never had an enjoyable experience with it personally that's all. Different strokes for different folks. I in no way am trying to insult anyone or be condescending. I just know from experience that rayon does not swell when wet and I could never get it to work in an RTA and I am an avid builder, modder, and have helped develop flavors for different juice lines, as well as worked with a few china companies as a beta tester in their R&D departments for their new products. I was partners in a B&M store for 3 years before local legislation in Indiana shut down all the small shops, so it isn't like I'm a new vaper or a hack either. I taught ohms law, battery safety, and coiling classes every other Sunday for patrons that had no mechanical mod experience. If they didn't know these things we would not sell them a mechanical device. As a shop co-owner I felt that it was our responsibility to ensure a customers safety over making a buck and we didn't charge for the class. Most of our customers respected and appreciated the fact that we were concerned more about their safety than making a sale. 95% of these people would come back take the class and would end up loyal customers afterwards. I want everyone to enjoy their vape journey however simple or intense that journey may be and if I can help reduce their stress in some way I try or point them towards someone that can. I cannot help with the rayon wicking problem so maybe you can make a video for our friend Blazr that would help so that leaking tanks will no longer be a source of frustration.

 

[smacuser]

 

[evan le'garde]

I've got reels and reels of wire, maybe a mile or two, i dunno. Most of them i don't even use anymore. Wire's cheap so........

Coils tend to be too "fragile" for repeated re-wicking from about 30-31g upwards. Thinnest wire i use, in fact is my go to, is 29g kanthal. It's perfect !, stays rigid so is ideal for re-wicking, has a reasonably high resistance.

In your post you said : "I would love to learn how to rebuild the Tobeco coil heads. I know the gage is smaller than 26g and they use a parallel build. Many wraps".

What do you mean smaller ?. D'you mean thinner ?, or do you mean 25g, 24g etc ?.

If the coils you are trying to copy have many wraps then the wire would be quite thick, so in actual fact you mean a lower resistance than 26g when you say "smaller". A lower resistance wire to 26g would be 25g, lower than that would be 24g and so on.

Get yourself some 25g and some 24g and start with the 25g.

A dual coil arrangement of two 3mm inner diameter coils made with 25g kanthal with 10/11 wraps each would have a total resistance of 0.6ohm.

 

[vapdivrr]

I wasn't saying rayon was garbage or anything, I used it for a while but I found that my flavors did taste different between rayon and cotton, each pronounced and muted different flavors that I use in different ways. I also found that rayon produced an after taste that I didn't have with my cotton builds, everyone's taste buds are different and for those that use it and enjoy it more power to you, if you have found a way to quit smoking and enjoy your vape experience I am glad and proud of your accomplishment, everyone's vape journey leads them in a different direction the one thing we all share in common is that we vape. Its like someone saying that i'm a psycho because I like a very hot vape while someone else likes a cool to slightly warm is a puss. That's not the case we just have different styles. I also found that for my RTA experience with rayon was less than satisfactory it either leaked horribly or it gave nasty dry hits I could not find the happy medium and if you have ever had a rayon dry hit you would know what I mean when I say you might as well smoke a set of Yoga pants. I have never had this trouble with Native wicks or vapers choice cotton. Heck I vaped using organic cotton cheesecloth for a while because it handles extreme heat amazingly, until the store I was getting it from closed up and I could not find it locally anymore. I don't know if my vape style is too hot for rayon or what but I never had an enjoyable experience with it personally that's all. Different strokes for different folks. I in no way am trying to insult anyone or be condescending. I just know from experience that rayon does not swell when wet and I could never get it to work in an RTA and I am an avid builder, modder, and have helped develop flavors for different juice lines, as well as worked with a few china companies as a beta tester in their R&D departments for their new products. I was partners in a B&M store for 3 years before local legislation in Indiana shut down all the small shops, so it isn't like I'm a new vaper or a hack either. I taught ohms law, battery safety, and coiling classes every other Sunday for patrons that had no mechanical mod experience. If they didn't know these things we would not sell them a mechanical device. As a shop co-owner I felt that it was our responsibility to ensure a customers safety over making a buck and we didn't charge for the class. Most of our customers respected and appreciated the fact that we were concerned more about their safety than making a sale. 95% of these people would come back take the class and would end up loyal customers afterwards. I want everyone to enjoy their vape journey however simple or intense that journey may be and if I can help reduce their stress in some way I try or point them towards someone that can. I cannot help with the rayon wicking problem so maybe you can make a video for our friend Blazr that would help so that leaking tanks will no longer be a source of frustration.

Sounds like a great shop my friend....no it just seemed that your response to rayon was so finite, like as there was no doubt it was the wrong wicking material for the job. I usually hear just a certain preference tilted one way or another, so it just caught me as maybe you ripped some rayon fabric off of a shirt or just perhaps tried it once and failed, but I'm sure it's just not for you...I actually do have a few videos, not rayon specific, but rta build videos in which I do wick with rayon and my latest one on the kayfun prime does show a decent amount of time spent on the wicking aspect. ..I do think rayon is a bit more time consuming , especially with wire thinner then 26g, but because I bought a lifetime supply, I use it 99 percent of the time. ..but when I do occasionally use ... cotton, it seems pretty much the same imo. Both wick about the same (at least at 20 watts in a rebuildable rta), flavor fairly close, although I prefer rayon a bit more, both never have any cottony taste, and both have similiar vapor....and I know everyone says it, but my rayon seems to expand like cotton....I mean how can a wicking material like rayon not expand? I recently did a test, where I just put in about 3/4 of the amount I usually put in and saturated, let it sit for a day and when I went to pull it out, it was definitely tighter then before. ...I have heard of some that just don't like the flavor of rayon (I still feel if that's the case it's wicked incorrectly ) but for it also to be extremely leaky, just seems impossible to me because imo the wicking materials are so very close in all aspects. ..I know they are different, I mean in the way they are made, but they look the same and at least in my experience work pretty much the same...now I can see differences between cotton and mesh, or cotton and porous ceramic, but people seem to think cotton and rayon are so far apart and totally different animals and I just don't see it....the only difference I do, and like I said my results are very similar, is I put a tad more rayon in the coil...yes I do trim some off the tails, but because I probably use more cotton then most, I trim my cotton tails also.... sorry for going on, I know everyone is different, but that's a good thing and it's all good as long as we just keep vaping..oh and just do a utube seach for vapdivrr, where I have a few vids

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk