What's the best 18650 for 10a vaping?

[DaveP]

The difference is mostly about airflow and flavor balance for me. Right now, I'm vaping at 8W and getting vapor like I'd get from a light cigarette. Sometimes, I crank it up to 12W if the flavor needs to be at that level. That's the advantage of MTL as opposed to DTL. I'm not particularly interested in inhaling large volumes of vapor. For me, it's into the throat, followed by an exhale. I still get the nic hit, but my lungs are spared most of the vapor. High PG provides the throat hit.

 

[mcclintock]

Due to voltage conversion and protection not being perfect, seems to me with a regulated device you should never use batteries less than the manufacturer recommends, no matter how little power you use. However, most manufacturers don't state a recommendation or requirement.

 

[mimöschen]

My dual 18650 Smok mods have indeed such a recommendation in the manual:
"Use a battery with a CDR of at least 35A".
Thank you Smok!

 

[Mikes1992]

My dual 18650 Smok mods have indeed such a recommendation in the manual:
"Use a battery with a CDR of at least 35A".
Thank you Smok!

Samsung, LG and Sony all recently put out a public statement saying that their batteries are not to be used in a vaping devices, The shop I got my smok x-priv from is offering a refund of £80 because of this. I ignored them and the offer still stands nearly a year later, I see it as a very generous warranty, considering I paid £65 xD. I can't imagine they will be allowed to refuse something from a product recall saying that the product they sold has a risk of exploding and you should stop using it and return it immediately (all of the loose 18650 mods In argos was recalled). To be honest I was surprised Argos was handing out loose 18650s to the general public without one bit of safety information and/or advice.

 

[mimöschen]

Those statements are out there for quite some time.
As long as a county's law doesn't explicitly say otherwise, there's absolutely no reason for a shop to stop selling round LiIon cells to end consumers, or to even give out a safety warning, although it's a nice touch if they do the latter.
Sure, round LiIons are not meant to be used for vaping and you absolutely have to take care when you do so. But it's your choice whether you take the risk of using them or not.
In the end those letters are out there for one purpose alone: to exempt the manufacturers from any liability, if an accident happens because you misused their cells.

 

[DaveP]

Safety depends on the user operating under the limits of the cell. My 10W vape draws around 3.3A and that's well within the range of proper use. There are no cells that can stand up to a 200W vape unless the device uses multiple cells. Even then you are probably at or over the top of the cell's capacity.

Below is a list (18650 battery store) of the "best" cells for high CDR, but I prefer to go by Mooch's battery testing.

Best 18650 Battery | 18650 Guide - Comparison Chart

 

[DaveP]

Several is a big stretch. Lasted an year for me I guess

I have several VTC6 and 30Q's that I've been vaping at 10W for several years. I toss when the internal resistance begins to rise and vape time falls. Molicell P26A is my latest purchase and so far the four of them are performing really well in rotation.

 

[Mikes1992]

I'm sure my Aegis is discharging the cells down to 3v, because once it hits the low voltage protection if you flip over to the mods bypass mode it says it's putting out 3v when the low voltage protection kicks in, I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to measure your batteries output voltage. The molicel p26a measures a float voltage of 3.3v on my multimeter once the devices low voltage protection kicks in. Which would actually fit with the cells Vdrop at 10a down to 3v

I've also started using my external charger more because it only seems to charge to 4.14v using the mods integrated charger which reduces the runtime by about 20%.

 

[dripster]

I'm sure my Aegis is discharging the cells down to 3v, because once it hits the low voltage protection if you flip over to the mods bypass mode it says it's putting out 3v when the low voltage protection kicks in, I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to measure your batteries output voltage. The molicel p26a measures a float voltage of 3.3v on my multimeter once the devices low voltage protection kicks in. Which would actually fit with the cells Vdrop at 10a down to 3v

I've also started using my external charger more because it only seems to charge to 4.14v using the mods integrated charger which reduces the runtime by about 20%.

Daniel (DJLSB Vapes on YouTube) tested the Geekvape Aegis and found that the voltage cut-off of the mod was at 3.22V.

 

[Mikes1992]

Daniel (DJLSB Vapes on YouTube) tested the Geekvape Aegis and found that the voltage cut-off of the mod was at 3.22V.

I can't imagine it's different for the Aegis solo?

 

[Mikes1992]

I decided to buy a 30q to try it out. I got 10 more puffs (379) over my Record of 369 for the p26a at 32w. I'm quite surprised with the 30Q to be honest, the voltage sag seems extremely low. It almost matched the freshly charged p26a which puts out 3.85v on bypass, the 30Q puts out 3.84v. My low voltage protection kicked in and the cell measured 3.24v on my multimeter while the p26a trips the protection at 3.3v (also reinforcing my belief that the protection on my Aegis is allowing the cell to drop below 3.2v).

The only thing I can think for the 30q matching the performance is that the P26a I received isnt as good quality either that or the 30q isn't limited by the internal cell resistance for high amperage uses and the 15a limit is more a chemistry limitation?

 

[Mikes1992]

I'll see about doing some testing tomorrow morning to estimate the internal resistance of the p26a and the 30q

 

[Mikes1992]

My p26a is about 19 mΩ

My 30q is about 22 mΩ

 

[DaveP]

My p26a is about 19 mΩ

My 30q is about 22 mΩ

I'm charging a P26A now that's been through about 30 charge/discharge cycles. It's up to 57% charge and showing 26 milliohms internal resistance on the MiBoxer C4. I'll look again when it's through charging. The Miboxer is just a 4 bay charger, but it yields consistently repeatable values for IR. The other chargers I have are all over the place with IR readings and don't show consistent values for IR.

 

[Mooch]

My p26a is about 19 mΩ

My 30q is about 22 mΩ

Just another couple data points, DC internal resistance average of four cells...

P26A = 18.7mOhms
30Q = 22.1mOhms

Essentially equal to your readings.

Measured at 24°C (+/-2°C) after a 500mA charge to 4.20V down to 50mA and allowed to rest for one hour.

In my testing the 30Q and VTC6 can offer a little more run time down to 3.2V (under load) at under 50W or so (about 17A). This depends a lot on the cells you have though as all the ones from the big manufacturers, except Molicel, can be different grades stored under various conditions and from a wide range of dates-of-manufacture.

Add on all the variables involved when comparing cell performance when vaping and it can often be hard to spot even a difference of several percent (run time).

Lastly, the DC IR only predicts the voltage sag at the start of the discharge. The chemistry of the cells can affect how the IR changes as the state-of-charge and cell temperature Changes during discharge. A higher IR cell (of equal capacity) can run for longer than a cell with a lower IR, depending on how the chemistry of the cell reacts as it’s discharged. This is where the Wh specs (at the power levels of interest) can be so helpful as they tell you exactly how much energy each cell delivers for the entire discharge.

I’ve only seen small differences between the Wh specs for cells continuously discharged and those that are pulse discharged, under 5%, and the cells didn’t change their relative performance. That is, the best performing cell when discharged continuously was usually the best performing one when pulsed. Only if the cells were within a couple percent of each other was there a chance that performer #1 might switch places with performer #2. But we’d never notice the differences in actual use.

 

[sky4it]

Did Sony stop making the 18650? That is what I heard, that someone else was making it, is this false?

Thanks its battery time.

 

[Mooch]

Did Sony stop making the 18650? That is what I heard, that someone else was making it, is this false?

Thanks its battery time.

Murata bought Sony’s 18650 factories in, IIRC, 2017 and is making the VTC batteries now. They seem to be exactly the same as the ones Sony made. Which makes sense...why piss off all those huge industrial/commercial customers who buy millions of batteries a year?