When Is a Pass-Through-Battery Not a Pass-Through? All the time.

[exo72069]

I wanted a pass-through so I thought I would be cagey and buy a Pass-Through-Battery and have a Pass-Through that I could use as a battery whenever the mood struck. WRONG-WRONG-WRONG. The Pass-Through-Battery quit working after about two months. The vendor was kind enough to replace it, but told me (very gently) that I was an idiot. They said everyone knows that you should charge/recharge a battery, immediately remove it from the charger and use it until it was completely discharged before replacing it on the charger. After a lot of research I concluded they were right. It is probably true that in the early stages of charging that you can use the battery as a pass-through with out doing too much harm, but how do you know the battery is not close to being fully charged? So the bottom line for all of us Dummies is: Don't use a Pass-Through-Battery as a Pass-Through or you will be sorry.

 

[Bud Man]

Bumping this up I thought the same I'm new too I thought the batt would charge while u r tokin please let us know.

 

[r77r7r]

Not really true. I use Joye PT's, and I can do all those things with No problems.

edit- I'm not pushing Joye products here, Most charge and go PT's have no limitations.

 

[UncleChuck]

I could see that being an issue. I've heard that lithium ion batteries can have their lifespan greatly reduced by constantly "topping off" the battery and if stored for long periods of time should not be stored at max voltage.

Keeping a passthrough plugged in all the time and using it while it's plugged in is pretty much the same thing as putting a regular battery back on the charger after every drag, which would constantly be topping up the battery to it's max voltage.

I'm going on memory with this so if I'm wrong someone please correct me. It might have been a different battery chemistry I was reading about (maybe IMRs))

 

[Thucydides]

In older rechargeable batteries (nickel–cadmium based), if you did not discharge them fully before recharging, the chemicals inside would crystalize. This would decrease the surface surface area available for the chemicals to come into contact with one another, which caused them to hold much less of a charge. This was Charging and discharging the battery fully a few times would break down the crystals and restore battery performance. Remember laptops 15 years ago, with the battery refresh applications?

Lithium-based batteries do not suffer from the same problem. (They have different issues; e.g., they degrade more quickly during cycles of high discharge usage.)

That said, all rechargeable batteries have a finite lifespan, due to secondary chemical reactions that occur within the batter during use and reuse, which degrades the performance over time.

 

[UncleChuck]

In older rechargeable batteries (nickel–cadmium based), if you did not discharge them fully before recharging, the chemicals inside would crystalize. This would decrease the surface surface area available for the chemicals to come into contact with one another, which caused them to hold much less of a charge. This was Charging and discharging the battery fully a few times would break down the crystals and restore battery performance. Remember laptops 15 years ago, with the battery refresh applications?

Lithium-based batteries do not suffer from the same problem. (They have different issues; e.g., they degrade more quickly during cycles of high discharge usage.)

That said, all rechargeable batteries have a finite lifespan, due to secondary chemical reactions that occur within the batter during use and reuse, which degrades the performance over time.

I don't remember laptops from 15 years ago, but I do remember having to deep cycle my Ni-Cd Sanyo 2400 sub-c cells when I was into R/C stuff 10 years ago.

Ni-Cds had capacity issues if not cycled properly, which obviously isn't an issue with our ecig batteries, but what about battery longevity, not capacity? I could have sworn I read that either Li Ion or IMRs (maybe it was Lipo?) would loose overall lifespan (not capacity) if constantly kept at it's max voltage?

Charging them before fully discharged wasn't mentioned as harmful, just keeping the battery totally topped off for long periods of time? Any truth to this? If not, do you have any idea what I'm talking about? Is there some chemistry out there that has the issues I mentioned? I keep looking around google trying to find the page I read all that on, I think I got it through a link not a search so I might not be able to find it again. It's driving me nuts!

 

[exo72069]

Thanks Unk.

You stated the problem more clearly than I did. It's not that you can't use the battery as a pass-through, but it can harm the battery especially when it starts off fully charged. I still like the idea of not paying for batteries when you are sitting in front of the boob tube or using your computer. The next time I get some spare cash I'm going to buy a 2 amp USB wall adapter/charger and a variable voltage pass-through.

 

[UncleChuck]

I'm not personally 100% convinced, but IF what I read was true, then it could possibly damage it by leaving it plugged in all the time while using it.

Which chemistry doesn't like being constantly topped off is the question, it's very possible I was reading about Lipo or IMR cells, in which case it wouldn't relevant to egos as they don't use lipo or IMR cells.

I wish I could find that page I read it on!! My google-fu is failing me. Hopefully Thucydides will stop back by and address the longevity issue with keeping them topped off all the time.

It's always possible that the PT circuitry was faulty or something, and the continued charging and usage burned something out.

 

[thehipster]

Honestly if you vape that much you should consider getting a better APV. Get an eVic or a ZMAX (unless you have the funds to go Provari, in which case...definitely skip the aforementioned and go for the creme-de-la-creme).

 

[exo72069]

1. Sorry I didn't tell you my Pass-Through-Battery is/was an 808 X2 1300mAh (which nowdays I always use with a 510 adapter). 808 batteries are (so I have heard) all LiPo batteries.

2. But it gets worse. Currently all or almost all USB charged disposable bottom parts of vaporizers, including ego batteries are LiPo. See: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ment-internal-ego-battery.html?highlight=lipo. Only the discrete batteries that you slide into the sockets on a wall powered battery charger are still LiIon. I'm sure there are exceptions like the ego-t mods that open up so you can replace the batteries. I'm only about 80% sure of what I just wrote, but nobody's perfect certainly not me.

3. Don't know much about IMR's. When I found out they had no internal protection and could be ruined by overdischarging I decided against ever using them.

4. The vendor did suggest that constant recharging would eventually ruin the PT circuts.

 

[Thompson]

I'm not personally 100% convinced, but IF what I read was true, then it could possibly damage it by leaving it plugged in all the time while using it.

Which chemistry doesn't like being constantly topped off is the question, it's very possible I was reading about Lipo or IMR cells, in which case it wouldn't relevant to egos as they don't use lipo or IMR cells.

I wish I could find that page I read it on!! My google-fu is failing me. Hopefully Thucydides will stop back by and address the longevity issue with keeping them topped off all the time.

It's always possible that the PT circuitry was faulty or something, and the continued charging and usage burned something out.

I believe it is called a 'parasitic load' and it is considered bad for Li-Ion.

Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles. The battery is continuously being discharged to 4.20V/cell and then charged by the device. The stress level on the battery is especially high because the cycles occur at the 4.20V/cell threshold.

I have an eGo-T 650 that still works fine and was used as a PT often. I don't use it much any more, and will charge with the built in unit but I won't use it as a PT. They, at least in my mind, are nice because they don't require carrying a charger but just a cable.

To me, a pass-through would be something that has no battery inline, but this requires the appropriate hardware to reach the usable level. I find that the new Provape item is indeed a pass-through, but its too bulky (unless I were behind the wheel a majority of my day).