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When Public Health and Big Tobacco Allign: Joe Nocera's back

Discussion in 'Media and General News' started by Bill Godshall, Mar 9, 2017.

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  1. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    Joe Nocera: When Public Health and Big Tobacco Allign
    When Public Health and Big Tobacco Align

    Joe used to be a columnist for the NY Times.
    But after Joe wrote several excellent columns advocating vaping for smokers, and criticizing FDA, CTFK, Glantz, etc. for demonizing and campaigning to ban vapes, the NY Times (which demonized vaping and urged FDA to ban vapes) reassigned Joe to write sports stories.
    Joe is now working for Bloomberg, where they apparently don't have a problem (so far) with his truth telling about vaping.
     
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  2. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    I don't accept the "truth" as expressed in the first of those two sentences at all. Did Snus in Sweden come from BT? Has vaping in the UK come from BT? The only reason the resources mentioned in the second sentence are "required" is due to the giant hurdles that government regulations have put in place.
     
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  3. Who_Dey_1991

    Who_Dey_1991 Super Member Verified Member

    Aug 22, 2016
    Ohio
    My question is, if PM really IS trying to end smoking deaths and create reduced-risk alternatives, why aren't they fighting the FDA? Why should THEY be the only ones manufacturing and marketing smokeless tobacco products?

    I don't believe them. I simply think they've recognized that more and more people are giving up cigarettes for vaping and they just want to be where the cash is headed.

    I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.
     
  4. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    It's good to be the only company (or one of a small number of large companies) who are allowed to sell a particular type of product. It's much easier to be profitable that way than if there are lots of upstart competitors, who tend to have lower much overhead and would have much greater agility without the FDA regulations.
     
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  5. Endor

    Endor Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 31, 2012
    Southern California
    A very interesting paragraph, which ties into all of our concerns over FDA submissions and especially in terms of using the modified risk classification:

    "In the U.S., Philip Morris has done something extraordinary: It has made a submission to the Food and Drug Administration to get the right to market IQOS as a reduced risk product. The expensive submission consumed 2.3 million pages and is backed by a great deal of research, including several clinical trials."
     
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  6. dobroeutro

    dobroeutro Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2016
    North Carolina
    I don't care what BT comes up/out with or what narrative they try to sell. I ain't buying... :cool:
     
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  7. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Yep. Let's say it takes an average of 1 minute to read a page. Then it will take over 38,000 hours to read the whole thing. There are only about ~2000 working hours in a year. Probably fewer if you work for the government. o_O
     
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  8. LaraC

    LaraC Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 6, 2013
    Tennessee
    But it takes only a few seconds to stamp:
    "Application denied on the basis of possible risk to the population as a whole."

    Ya know... tempting the blessed children to experimentally TRY just one puff.

    The imaginary dreaded gateway. Yadda yadda.

    The population as a whole, in the eyes of the rabid anti-smoking brigade at the FDA, can consist of just one kid.

    To hell with millions of adult smokers who might be looking around to find a pleasurable alternative to striking a match and inhaling smoke.

    When the FDA denies Phillip Morris's Modified Risk Product, the FDA won't be doing experimental kids any favor -- the experimental kids who might never become steady smokers of real cigarettes if there were several safer "adult" alternatives to play around with for awhile.

    Oh, but then there's always that good old imaginary "normalization of smoking" thing.

    And above all, the dreaded imaginary "nicotine addiction" thing.
     
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  9. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    Altria/PM and Reynolds backed the Cole bill last session, and the Cole/Sanford bill this session because it will keep Mark Ten, Green Smoke, IQOS, and Vuse on the market, while still imposing all other disastrous Deeming Regulations (and forthcoming vapor regulations and standards), which are likely to ban/eliminate the vast majority of other vapor products in the future (unless Trump and his successors block them).
     
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  10. Stubby

    Stubby Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Madison, WI USA
    The only thing in the Cole/Sanford bill that would be of concern is the battery issue, but there is a section in the bill that would have some protection against that.

    It is not ideal, but it would be a vast improvement over what we have today.
     
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  11. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    I sure wish you'd post more often.
    :)
     
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  12. LaraC

    LaraC Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 6, 2013
    Tennessee
    awww, you're sweet. :wub:
     
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  13. Endor

    Endor Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 31, 2012
    Southern California
    I, too, am growing weary of the whole "gateway" theory.

    I'm sure that many of us starting smoking as teenagers; I did, and in my case, that was the mid 1980's when I was around 15 years old. Tobacco control was really starting to ramp up in those days, yet it didn't deter me.

    Why didn't it? Simple. Smoking was something adults did, it had age restrictions, and smoking was starting to be demonized. Doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing held appeal to me at that age. It was a mild form of rebellion... I say "mild", because I personally wasn't a seriously rebellious kid and did no more than smoke and drink. I didn't even drink very much, because my parents didn't make a huge deal about it (as long as I didn't drive).

    This is the elephant in the room that nobody in tobacco control wants to see. The more you age-restrict vapor products, the more you demonize them, the more kids will WANT to do it. That's a fact of human nature, folks.

    SIDE NOTE: I agree with DC2.... you should post more, LaraC! :)
     
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  14. WorksForMe

    WorksForMe Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 21, 2012
    N.N., Virginia
    I believe a lot of tobacco control people do see this but….. Hardcore ANTZ think ecigs are just another evil tobacco product that needs to be stamped out, or at least taxed very heavily. They know that won’t happen unless the general public also believes ecigs are evil.

    For them, age restrictions are a means to an end. If the government says kids can’t buy ecigs, maybe the public will believe they’re dangerous. If a bunch of kids try ecigs now, because of the restrictions, that’s OK. The ends justify means.
     
    • Like Like x 4
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