Where am I going wrong?

[dkeppel]

Hi,

New to DIY here, I've made up a couple of juices so far and the flavour has been very disappointing, I'm not sure why but my juices smell great vaped I can smell everything I put in there quite well but the flavour is very mute.

My 1st attempt I've adjusted a Pistachio RY4 recipe to try make it a bit less sweet and more tobacco'y and the result was something that tastes a bit like soy sauce and smokeyness, been steeping over a week had a couple of hot water baths using hot tap water when I mixed it and I've shaken it daily.

My 2nd attempt I took out the extra tobacco flavouring I put in the 1st time and tried using 2 types of Vanilla but the result is again smells great but this time no real flavour at all, Gave this one a few hot water baths a day and a good shake for about 5 days then added in the nicotine and its been shaken for the past 3 days daily.

#1

3% RY4 (FA)
1% Tuscan Reserve (FA)
2.5% Pistachio (FA)
2% Caramel (FLV)
2% Vanilla Bourban (FA)
Started with 0 drops then added 3 drops of Sweetener (TFA)

#2
4% RY4 (FA)
2% Caramel (FLV)
0.75% French Vanilla (TFA)
0.75% Vanilla Bourban (FA)
3% Pistachio (FA)
Started with 3 drops then added 3 drops more of Sweetener (TFA)

Am I missing some key ingredients ? Am I putting to much in ? Or do I need to give it more time ?

Any help appreciated, Thanks.

Sam.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I do know that the vanilla's do need time to steep and I have not had any luck trying to get them to develop sooner. Hope neither one is a huge bottle because that takes longer to 'age' than a smaller bottle. Maybe put these away and check on them in a couple of weeks.
You could then try adding one flavor, vape 3 drops onto a dripper or 510 atty. If that tastes ok then add the next flavor and so on. This may help to guide as to what is happening step by step. I know its a lot of work, but these kind of things usually pay off if you are patient. (I know, easier said than done..LOL)

 

[JCinFLA]

I don't make any tobacco flavored eliquids myself, but IMO...maybe you need to bump up the % of the flavorings you're using. Your % in both tries is less than 11%. Many people may disagree, but I'd at least try it with a small batch of maybe 10mL or so.

There's only 1 mix I make that's anywhere near that low of a flavor %, and it's because it's already a blended flavoring made up of many different flavorings. The rest of the recipes I make are all in the 17%-30% range, and 99% of them are vapable when I finish them. The only mixes I don't vape when just finished...are those that have ethyl alcohol in them. I let it evaporate off before I vape it because it gives me a headache if I don't.

 

[dkeppel]

Thanks for your responses.

I've just mixed up 1 in a 30ml and the other in a 15ml bottle so not to much lost, I should probably mention I'm mixing at Max VG so maybe your right JCinFLA.

Those % I'm using are what others seem to use in there own recipes for those particulate flavours, I can taste the FLV caramel in the background quite happy with what I can taste of that, in fact I'd say its the best caramel I've ever tasted.

I've based my mix off a recipe that came from diyordie that was on e-liquid-recipes, I noticed on his site he has a updated version of this PRY4 and he's added Capella Sugar Cookie so maybe its the missing link for my own version.

I should also add I didn't use TFA Double RY4 and excluded Brown Sugar which was in his original recipe posted on e-liquid-recipes and TFA Double RY4 remains in the updated version because I was trying to reduce the sweetness a bit for my own tastes, hence opting for FA RY4 and using FLV caramel instead of a candy caramel flavour.

Maybe the TFA Double RY4 is a must, I've just had a friend make me this before as a straight mix and I found far to sweet but I am unsure what % he used maybe it was quite a high % and just to strong for my taste.

I've read FA flavours are not very sweet and by using them and removing others like the brown sugar / Double RY4 I've gone to unsweet so it just doesn't taste right at all.

 

[salemgold]

I agree with SAS. You are using creamy and vanilla flavors in a high VG mix. This will take time for the flavor to come through. Nothing ( including hot water baths) will take the place of time.

If you are getting a decent aroma the taste is sure to follow. I make a few creamy, vanilla type flavors that actually take a month or so to reach full flavor and that is using a 50/50 PG/VG blend. High VG will take a bit longer.

I am so glad to see that you are starting with reasonable flavoring amounts though. I see so many new DIYers (and old alike) using upwards of 20% and it just makes me cringe. My opinion is to just be patient. Put these away and make something else to vape in the meantime if you are able to do so. Good luck.

ETA- It is only my opinion that it is best to stay low on flavoring % not knocking anyone with different opinions

 

[MsLoud]

When I do a mix, I decide what I want for the dominate flavoring first. Then I choose what supporting flavors or profile (vanilla, fruits, nutty, etc) I want to add. through trial and error - for me and what I'm aiming for in my mixes - I never exceed the percent of my dominate flavoring... like this:

This is a Peanut Brittle recipe from another member - the Ry4 and Peanut Butter are complimentary so equal parts are used - this is the main flavor.


7.5% Peanut butter
7.5% RY4 double
3% Sweetener
2% Brown Sugar
1% Acetyl Pyrazine

The sweetener, brown sugar and AP are complimentary flavors - notice together they do not exceed the main flavor/s.

this has been a rule of thumb so to speak for me and has served me well. Also, you may want to have a look around at tried and true recipes here to start. helps to have some success in getting use to mixing before tweaking your own recipes. I did this for a few weeks then started taking recipes I liked and adding/changing them to suit me.

My Peanut Brittle looks like this now:

10% Peanut butter
4% RY4 double
3.5% Sweetener
3% Brown Sugar
1.5% Acetyl Pyrazine

I also add saline at 1 drop per 10ml (I make 100ml at a time so 10 drops of saline)

 

[Train2]

Just a couple quick thoughts -
First - what are you USED to?
If you are accustomed to "commercial" juice - many of those are up near 20% flavoring, and you might be going too light. When I started DIY, I used FA DoubleRY4 at over 15%. I've since lowered it, and it's still a very rich flavor...

Second - that RY4 has VERY little tobacco to it. Adding a touch of something like Tobacco Absolute might be worth doing, if you really want a tobacco flavor.

Third - Caramel and Vanilla, in general, are VERY tricky. They can spoil a mix. Vanilla often has a very chemical/alcohol/perfume sense to it until steeped.

Good luck!!

 

[dkeppel]

Thank you for all your responses.

I feel a bit impatient now, this afternoon I revisited the first mix I made the soy sauce is gone and I can taste the vanilla, the only thing I'm thinking now is I need something to make the vanilla and caramel "pop" maybe something sweet like Brown Sugar or Sugar cookie ?

I'm going to just let them sit for now, I've made up a watermelon that's tasting great so that should hold me over and give them some more time to develop.

I was more adding the extra tobacco to try reduce sweetness and make it more of a tobacco vape but after tasting them I'm thinking I want to make it a sweet vape and do something different with the tobacco.

A cherry tobacco sounded like a good idea when I ordered everything but after trying FA's black cherry I don't know what I can do with it.

 

[salemgold]

Put them away and try hard to forget about them. The worst thing that you can do is to start adding stuff to them before they fully mature. I know that it is hard to be patient but once you get your recipes where you like them, you will be able to keep enough made ahead of time that there will be no more waiting for them to steep.

 

[BrotherBob]

Suggestions:
Your percentage look could be correct for FA (Average [3% RY4 (FA)] mixing quantity: close to 5 % ). If your not getting a taste after *4-5 weeks steep then suggest upping the appropriate percentages.

* Tobacco mixes in general 4-5 weeks steep unless you know otherwise.
Custards 4 weeks min.
When I started DIY, I mixed single flavors and noted their properties. It helps to know the worth of a flavor before you mix with it.

 

[dannyv45]

Your percentages look pretty good so I would have to agree with the rest that more steeping is required. I think what you will notice with more time is the caramel will fade to the back ground and the tobacco and vanilla will start to come through more.

 

[SteveS45]

I have found the easiest way to kill the flavor is using too much power. What kind of tank are you using?

 

[Yiana]

I use tfa ry4 dbl and love it. It doesn't seem to take a long time to steep. However, I've read where tobacco flavors usually take a month, so I agree with the others just let it steep longer.

 

[mike phill]

RY4 has VERY little tobacco to it. Adding a touch of something like Tobacco Absolute might be worth doing, if you really want a tobacco flavor.
http://www.excell.to/