Which ejuices are really safe?

[jrentor]

So I just found out through this forum, that many vanillas are very dangerous to your health and can possibly cause lung failiure due to something called diacetcyl

http://www.osha.gov/dsg/guidance/diacetyl-guidance.html

Diacetyl chemical in artificial butter popcorn linked to Alzheimer's plaque build-up - HealthPop - CBS News

Well I just bought 30 ml killa vanilla and now hate to waste it. Also reading that most ejuices contain some sort of variant of diacetyl that even vendors do not know, even if they tell you they do not use it.

Then I was reading more and found that inhaling cinnamon is bad too.


So my question is what juices are really safe for you if any to inhale with many of these food flavorings? vanilla and cinnamon is out. Are the fruity ones safe?

I am tired of spending and wasting money on ejuice to find out just as bad as smoking in just different ways.


Can someone list some ejuice and where to get it, where it is completely 100% safe?

Also I really think these vendors should start to put up warnings about vanilla and cinnamon, if I had known about it would never have purchased it

 

[JudeaB]

Just read up that info - interesting. I am presently vaping Watermelon but I do enjoy the vanilla and cinnamon. I have a head cold at the moment so might avoid those two flavours in the interim. However the studies done appear to be in a work place and will re-read research but no time frame was mentioned. I am going to do some more research on DIACETYL so thx for your info. I am starting diy and so will check contents in the flavourings I use. Here in Aus., and I suppose over there too, manufacturers have to list all ingredients so I will check out those. However at my age, 69, I will continue. Good luck in your search for DIACETYL free EJuice. One thing to remember tho' is, I am sure, the risk factors must be lessened by vaping rather smoking. Cheers and all the best from Tas.,

 

[jrentor]

I found a huge thread last night somewhere in these forums will try to find it and post.

One report was people got this popcorn lung disease anywhere from 6 months to 9 years after exposure.


I am 38 years old so if in 5 - 10 years I need a lung transport well not sure how much better off I am.

I just want to find juice that is 100% safe is that possible?

 

[Iron Molly]

This is old news people. Most vendors state "diacetyl free". If they don't, I'm sure you can ask, and it is most likely the case. Diacetyl has been removed from the flavoring labeled for e-cig use by the flavorant producers.

As far as 100% safe juice well who knows. It's much less harmful than burning tobacco.

 

[clnire]

Reading and talking to others, I got the impression that it is butter/custard flavors that are the real culprits. From The Perfumer's Apprentice web site (The Flavor Apprentice/TFA)

Perfumer's Apprentice

" Acetyl propionyl and acetoin. Both of these ingredients are replacements for diacetyl, which is no longer being used by many (but not all) flavor manufacturers." (from above article) goes on to state these may not be such good replacements.

I don't see vanilla mentioned in any of the warnings. Now Vanilla custard, big yes! but a straight vanilla? I don't think so but I am NO!!!! expert, just know what I have read, and I try to real all I can to keep it as "safe" as I can.

Also, with TFA flavorings, to notice that the "deluxe" version of a flavor, i.e. French vanilla, contain harmful ingredients, but "regular" version does not:
"French Vanilla Deluxe Flavor

water soluble
This is a stronger, richer French Vanilla. It may be too strong for some, but we still have our original French Vanilla!
This flavor contains "Custard" ingredients (Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl)
and it is recommended only for Food based applications
Our original French Vanilla does not contain these custard ingredients.
Please read our information section on the Custard ingredients in the Flavorists Corner.
Ingredients: Natural and Artificial Ingredients, Propylene Glycol"

I am impressed with TPA/TFA laying it all out on their web sites. I spent some hours reading and it was very educational.

So I try to stay away from buttery, custard flavored liquids. If I doubt, I email the vendor. If they won't disclose, I look elsewhere for my juice. I find most pretty forward and honest. No, they won't give you their recipe but if you ask they will be as informative as possible. If in doubt, go elsewhere or don't purchase that juice flavor. And as you say, some vendors don't know a chemical is in their ingredients. So be aware, be informed, and try to keep it as safe as possible.

Happy Vaping!

 

[jrentor]

This is old news people. Most vendors state "diacetyl free". If they don't, I'm sure you can ask, and it is most likely the case. Diacetyl has been removed from the flavoring labeled for e-cig use by the flavorant producers.

As far as 100% safe juice well who knows. It's much less harmful than burning tobacco.

Might be old news to you, but new to me since I started vaping about 2 weeks ago, and spent money on killa vanilla, which according to some posts still have it. I hate to throw it out but I guess I have to. I also bought cinnamon which is supposedly bad as well.

I emailed the vendor but even if they state they don't use it, no way to know for sure.



We cannot say 100% for certain it safer, until there are true studies down how do you know? Worst case it still kills us with a different type of cancer from inhaling food flavorings. I mean if you think about it food flavorings were never meant to be inhaled were they? They were meant to be ingested.

But what I really want to know what juices so far are known to be at leat 99.9% safe? Do I just go with tobacco flavors? menthol flavors? stay away from fruity flavors?

 

[clnire]

I don't think it it is fruit flavors, just stay away from buttery/custard flavors. Straight fruit flavor without the creamy stuff should be as safe as an eliquid an be. Again, JMHO, no one can say for sure.

 

[Iron Molly]

How do I know it's safer than tobacco cigs?

Lab Reports: ecigarettes

Research has been done and much more on the way. Also I make my own juice so I know exactly what is and is not in it.

Bottom line to each their own vape what makes you feel comfortable.

 

[The Rebel]

My concern when I vaped was where I bought my juice. Not long ago a lot of juice vendors made their juices in their homes or apartments. That scared the heck out of me. What prevents contamination in environments like these? I just couldn't stop thinking about one of these vendors mixing up juice in the kitchen, getting a phone call and then forgetting how much nicotine they put in the juice. Not that I would like to see the FDA regulate vaping, but it wouldn't hurt to regulate it a little to ensure consumers safety. Here's a link to a good article for Spinfuel, an online vapor magazine. It also lists juice vendors that have special sterile rooms set up for mixing. Like I said, I don't vape anymore but if I did I would seriously research who I was considering buying juice from.

What Do You Really Know About eLiquid Vendors? - Spinfuel Magazine

 

[SouthernBliss]

What prevents contamination in environments like these? I just couldn't stop thinking about one of these vendors mixing up juice in the kitchen, getting a phone call and then forgetting how much nicotine they put in the juice.

Sterile is only sterile until you introduce things like people and air into the environment. Nor am I aware of many businesses in the US that do not have phones and other potential interruptions like co workers. My point is that unless your taking nearly every human factor out through absolute automation and a closed environment then there will always be some sort of risk when your talking about things that come in contact with your body. If this strikes fear into your heart then you need to immediately stop eating in any restaurant, most pre packaged foods and a vast number of products that come in contact with your body in other forms because they are by and large not produced in a closed sterile environment without human intervention.

The reality is that there are already things in our food that we would never personally consider acceptable in food we cooked ourselves and I am sure you would consider contamination at any level. None the less the FDA has limits on fly eggs and rat hairs with "maximum levels of unavoidable defects". Basically, if your worried about what is in your e-juice then odds are good you should be scared crazy about what is actually in your food.

I'll keep living dangerously myself. Keep eating out, buying brownies at bake sales, having a slice of cake from the local coffee shop (a really nice woman makes them at her house) and even eating the occasional pre packaged foods. And yes supporting non corporate level vendors.

 

[The Rebel]

Sterile is only sterile until you introduce things like people and air into the environment.


I'll keep living dangerously myself. Keep eating out, buying brownies at bake sales, having a slice of cake from the local coffee shop (a really nice woman makes them at her house) and even eating the occasional pre packaged foods. And yes supporting non corporate level vendors.

I beg to differ when it comes to sterile. There is a big difference between mixing toxic chemicals at your kitchen table while the dog lays at your feet, the wife cooks dinner on the stove, and the kids finish up their homework when compared to a climate controlled environment using sterile equipment with dust collectors, rubber gloves, and face masks with no distractions.

And we're not talking about some little old lady putting a bit too much sugar in the cake batter or downing a little rat feces in a Poptart. We're talking about a toxic alkaloid that by, and I quote, "Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact." I'd rather see a little regulation in juice making than have to worry if the gent making my juice messed up while watching Spongebob and double dosed the nicotine. Just my opinion of course but I do tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to death.

I don't even vape anymore and I could care less where people get their juice. All I stated were a few facts and opinions to reflect if I were currently vaping. Take it at that as we all have different views. You buy your juice where ever you want.

 

[skoot]

Personally I DIY, but when I do buy juice I test it with a nicotine testing kit to make sure nobody forgot to dilute, or whatever.

Also, diacetyl is naturally occurring in many flavors. So flavor manufacturers may not ADD any diacetyl to their juice, but it may be in the flavors themselves.

 

[SouthernBliss]

"Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact."

Which is an issue if your actually preparing the e-liquid using nicotine juice at a high percentage and spill it on you. Since I doubt if any of us ever spent any time using e-juice without spilling it on us at some point and we are not dieing in droves from it then that seems to not be an issue with purchased products or DIY people.

Now your assumption that someone will be unable to tell that they have already added a large portion of the fluid volume (and the pricy bit at that) and brew up a poisonous batch of juice is actually far more logical if the mixing is being done on an industrial scale. It is fairly easy to see that you already have 10 out of 15mls in a 15ml bottle but much harder to tell if you have added one gallon to 3 gallons in a vat. I can see the variations in flavor lessoning when mixing on an industrial scale since a drop won't spoil the mix where it can on the micro scale may people bottle at. But, I'm not sure that I buy the concept that rules and regulations meant to keep people from micro production will make me safer since in the end your still depending on someone to pour x into y and frankly once you get to a large industrial and "safe" environment like your looking for your also often hiring people who have no attachment to the industry or the people they are producing for. Nor, based on what we see on the news about the food industry and pharmaceutical industry, will regulation be a fool proof way to protect people. I think there should be standards but I think regulation would be just a way to force out small businesses and artisan shops in favor of conglomerates with deep pockets who will not care about anything but money.

I'd rather see a little regulation in juice making than have to worry if the gent making my juice messed up while watching Spongebob and double dosed the nicotine. Just my opinion of course but I do tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to death.

You must have been vaping some pretty strong stuff if a double dose would have put you in the poison range. Personally I don't order over 24 and generally 18 so even if they did double dose it would be 48 at most. It would no doubt give me a head rush and make me feel sick after too many drags but as there are people who start out that high or move up it is unlikely it would kill me any more than the occasional over stressed smoke till I was nic sick days did in the past.

 

[The Rebel]

You win. Vape anything you feel like.

 

[kumimuumi]

I haven't been buying juices for a while, since i diy, but one of the places I do trust on this subject is Flavourart. They have a launched their own studies on the subject, and built a site with the info - named Clearstream. On the subject of Diacetyl, check this link. They are one of the few companies that do check their stuff throughly and seem to be up front with it.

They are a tad bit more expensive and currently hold around 45d as a shipping estimate, yeah, six weeks. Fortunately you can find their products all over, so that isn't such a setback.

Currently vaping licorice, vanilla and peppermint flavours from them, content, as I don't have to stress about the safety issue.

 

[jrentor]

Well I have good news, I just got a call from Welcome to Vapor Associates LLC - High Caliber America's Finest E-liquids (they make high caliber liquid) after I contacted them asking if they have any of the 3 ingredients in killa vanilla

and he guarantees me those are not in killa vanilla or any of their ejuice and can feel 100% safe. He says they take it very serious and have a blacklist of certain ingredients never to use.

 

[Justin66]

Which is an issue if your actually preparing the e-liquid using nicotine juice at a high percentage and spill it on you. Since I doubt if any of us ever spent any time using e-juice without spilling it on us at some point and we are not dieing in droves from it then that seems to not be an issue with purchased products or DIY people.

Now your assumption that someone will be unable to tell that they have already added a large portion of the fluid volume (and the pricy bit at that) and brew up a poisonous batch of juice is actually far more logical if the mixing is being done on an industrial scale. It is fairly easy to see that you already have 10 out of 15mls in a 15ml bottle but much harder to tell if you have added one gallon to 3 gallons in a vat. I can see the variations in flavor lessoning when mixing on an industrial scale since a drop won't spoil the mix where it can on the micro scale may people bottle at. But, I'm not sure that I buy the concept that rules and regulations meant to keep people from micro production will make me safer since in the end your still depending on someone to pour x into y and frankly once you get to a large industrial and "safe" environment like your looking for your also often hiring people who have no attachment to the industry or the people they are producing for. Nor, based on what we see on the news about the food industry and pharmaceutical industry, will regulation be a fool proof way to protect people. I think there should be standards but I think regulation would be just a way to force out small businesses and artisan shops in favor of conglomerates with deep pockets who will not care about anything but money.



You must have been vaping some pretty strong stuff if a double dose would have put you in the poison range. Personally I don't order over 24 and generally 18 so even if they did double dose it would be 48 at most. It would no doubt give me a head rush and make me feel sick after too many drags but as there are people who start out that high or move up it is unlikely it would kill me any more than the occasional over stressed smoke till I was nic sick days did in the past.

Very well said. There's this thing some people don't realize called "manufacturing tolerances"... On a small scale, like a one-person shop, those can be easily eliminated. On a large scale, they're allowed, especially if we're talking about companies looking to make big profits. Anything mass-produced will have tolerances, whether we're talking cars, food, appliances, golf clubs, whatever.

I DIY for myself and my friends and frankly, I'm insulted that people just insinuate that we who make juices are that careless and/or stupid (or lack pride in our work), especially knowing the risks- and the cost of nicotine juice. Those types of people can ..... off, in my opinion.

 

[GwenB]

Okay. I am officially freaked out. My ADV is Gourmet Vanilla from Mrs T's.

NEVERMIND

WHEW

" Ms T's juices are completely free of diacetyl."

 

[galmedic]

There are some really great and informative responses here! The thing no-one mentioned though, is that nothing is 100% safe- Not even water!