Which VW mods have RMS ?

[VapinSweetZ]

I'm looking for another mod that can resize to 18350-size (telescopic or using shorter battery tube) that have VW adjustment and RMS feature.

Right now I have the ZMax V5, so I don't think I'll go with Zmax Mini (as far as I see it doesn't really gives me anything new or better).

I was thinking about the SID with 18350 tube...
Will be happy to hear to opinions and other suggestions

P.S - ProVari Mini isn't an option because personally, for it's price, not having a VW and not having an option to extend to 18650 kinda make it a waste of money IMO.


Thanks!

 

[suspectK]

Provari isn't RMS. It is a high frequency PWM chip, similar to MVP.

I don't think you're going to find many options.. Why do you want RMS and not a high frequency pulse width modulation chip(mean)?

 

[twgbonehead]

All VW mods use RMS values for their power/Voltage output settings. One mod offers the (useless, IMHO) option of "Average" as well.

SuspectK, the RMS value is applicable regardless of whether the waveform is a sine wave, a square wave, or any other shape.

 

[VapinSweetZ]

suspectK - I've seen some test results of the ZMax and it looks like the output voltage is much (much) more accurate when using RMS compare to mean.

twgbonehead - Are you sure about that? so even the iTaste VV use RMS system?


P.S. What's PWM chip (such as in the MVP) ?

Thanks for the quick responses!

 

[TheAmazingDave]

pulse width modulation (PWM) is a method of controlling output signal.

With PWM, the output pulse voltage remains constant. To lower the effective voltage, the output is pulsed a certain number of times per second. Lowering the number of pulses in a cycle lowers the voltage. This is why they generate a square wave on a scope.

An example is modern LED tail lighting in cars. If you move your eyes fast when they're lit, you can see them strobe. This is PWM. It allows the same set of LEDs to be ran at different brightness levels.

MVP (actually not the MVP) and a lot of others pulse at 33.3 Hz. The VTR and possibly other higher-end APVs pulse ~48 Hz.

 

[rucni]

if you are looking for a low cost VV VW with RMS and MEAN settings there is always the Vamo line. i have both the V3 and V4 and both have rms and mean almost with vv vw. in fact both use the same chip set ksd 3.0 and from what i have read the vamo v5 does as well. only issue with the vamo is you cannot go below a set ohm level, i think its 1.2ohms.

 

[VapinSweetZ]

Thanks, is PWM more accurate than RMS?
MEAN is just the basic output mode with no "measurement process" right? I don't think I care about that. Mods with only RMS or PWM should be good enough I guess.

The Vamo is awesome, but because I already have the Zmax V5 I don't see a lot of reasons getting the Vamo, they kinda look the same and have similar features.

Is there any better mod than the Smoktech SID in its price range ? (Under $100) ?

The MVP and VTR are probably less portable than the SID/Vamo/Zmax, at least from what I can see from pictures. In real life I just saw them behind displays in B&M stores...


Thanks again for all the fast replies!

 

[TheAmazingDave]

PWM is a type of signal.
RMS is a type of measurement.

Two different things.

edt: Also, regarding the VTR, it does have substantial weight (which I love), but it isn't very big at all in my opinion. With the tank cage 'built-in' it is very pocketable. It's roughly the same size as the MVP without atty, and just a bit thicker.

Here it is in my, admittedly large, hand:


The MVP itself is smaller and lighter, but less pocketable with the topper on.

 

[VapinSweetZ]

Thanks, Personally I don't think I'll go with the VTR because I don't want to limit myself to specific tanks or sand the ring (for example I have the Smoktech DCT V1 that probably won't fit well without sanding).

Does the MVP have any advantage over the SID ?
I'm keep going back to the SID because it looks so nice with a 18350 tube
But I'm pretty sure there are better mods in this price...

 

[suspectK]

SuspectK, the RMS value is applicable regardless of whether the waveform is a sine wave, a square wave, or any other shape.

True, true.

 

[VapinSweetZ]

Honestly? 我不知道你剛才所說的...
Can I please get it in English, for kids?

BTW I'm still trying to understand what MEAN mode is, no measurement system or just a sucky one? why is the ZMax output is so much more accurate with RMS compare to MEAN mode?

 

[BeRight]

A PBusardo Video - Beginners Guide to E-Cigs and E-Cig Tech - YouTube watch this guy for explanation.

Mean: also known as average - yes a measurement but is being used by manufacturers to denote how voltage is applied to atomizer. -

in this instance: average (mean) voltage the atomizer gets when you press the button. If ecig device is in "Mean" mode then atomizer gets full voltage setting all the time.

If ecig device is in RMS mode then atomizer gets a pulse width modulated voltage instead. Example: if a 50 percent on (5 volts to atomizer) 50% off ( 0 volts to atomizer) PWM then the RMS value might be 3.7 Volts (depends on width of pulses) but the mean voltage value would be 2.5 volts.

Your vaping experience relates to 3.7 volts and not 2.5 volts because coils do not instantaneously get hot and then get cold.

Hope I didn't add to confusion

 

[beckdg]

pulse width modulation - all three words are significant to it's meaning.

the voltage output is modulated (controlled) by the width of the output.

width in this case is only significant in the sense of time.

let's take your average mod for example. they commonly put out 33.3 hertz. this is invariable. it doesn't change. the pulse of voltage is sent 100 times every 3 seconds. thus, 33.3 Hertz. hertz translates into pulses per second.

the voltage of these mods is typically fixed to a 6 volt output. though, some use differing voltages. all utilize a DC to DC (direct current) voltage regulator to boost the voltage from battery output to their desired results.

how the mean, median or rms voltage is attained is by dividing up the amount of time and how it's shared between the on and off cycles. for example, to get 3 volts from the 6 volt regulator, each pulse cycle would spend just as much time with the power off as with the power on. to get 4.5 volts, each pulse would have the power on twice as long as the power would be off. for 6 volts, the output should give steady voltage with the pulse not occurring ideally.

at 33.3 hertz, this rapid changing of on/off states (ie pulsing) would happen at 33.3 times per second and produce an output that could be averaged. the width of the pulse would be considered as the amount of time it is on relative to the amount of time the output is off. thus the pulse width is modulated.

at higher frequencies (say 800 hertz of a provari for example), the output would be observed as smoother or higher pitched (as would be the case if we were discussing sound frequencies such as when adjusting an equalizer on a stereo).

duty cycle means the cycle at which the electronics perform their duty. in this case, that cycle would be a square wave (on and off with no variation between the two states) at 33.3 hertz (pulses per second).

the mvp II, although, i am not sure of it's duty cycle characteristics (frequency for example) has a very smooth output similar to a provari. for $40 it's a steal of a deal. with an on board battery, charger cable, included atomizer and ego and 510 connections, it covers all the necessities at an unbeatable price point.

 

[VapinSweetZ]

Thanks for the GREAT technical explanation!

1. In real world results, with common Clearomizers and Cartomizers, is the difference really big enough to notice? do we really need that accuracy and voltage "stability" for basic ecig setups?

Also, I'm looking at the big picture, portability, design, combined with the accuracy/stability of the output, it's just one of the (important) characteristics of the mod.
So going back to my first question, MVP design isn't really what I'm looking for, I really rather have a long-style mod (such as the provari/vamo/zmax and such). Is there a better device than the Smok SID under $100 with an option for 18350-size (tele' or tube)?

Edit: iTaste 134 mini is also in my budget...

 

[beckdg]

we don't really need such regulation.
with some builds and/or toppers, the perceivable difference can be negligible.

though, once you have something so smooth, it will certainly be revered and highly regarded.

have you held a box mod, before? i don't have experience with every mod and i simply couldn't be sure as to what would tick your boxes for you until you knew and experienced it. so i can't say whether there is one that fits your criteria. though, many, many folks have been quite pleasantly surprised at the size, portability and ergonomics (for lack of a better word) of an mvp.

to be honest, i'd much rather have my mvp in my pocket than any 18350 mod simply because i know i won't be stranded mid day without something to puff on without a pocket full of extra batteries. there's a chance it would actually take up much less pocket space than an 18350 mod for that reason alone. 2600 usable mah in such a small form factor is kind of a big deal.

mind you, i have a vamo, a couple provari, a reo grand, a couple mechs and i've still purchased 4 mvp IIs. though, they were to get family members geared up and ready to quit smoking.

(i hope you understand, i'm not trying to sell you one. i just find them very convenient, smooth vaping and economical and realize that the reasons some folks are against them really aren't as valid as they think they are all the time. i swore i'd never buy one at one time, myself.)

 

[beckdg]

i can't say anything about the 134 mini, but according to pbusardo, the full size 134 is a 48mhz regulated mod. check out his results on that here... A PBusardo Review Innokin iTaste 134 - YouTube

 

[suspectK]

MVP and a lot of others pulse at 33.3 Hz.

The MVP has a fast cycling speed.. it's similar to the provari.

I guess a lot of mods that have the option of RMS and mean do it differently.. If you don't have a scope meter, you're multimeter is going to read the lowest value of voltage when using the slower pulse voltage. I guess in your zmax, mean cycles from the setting to what you're able to see with your voltmeter 33.3 times per second/hertz.

My vape-pro has mean as the high frequency setting, and RMS as the slower pulse/square wave at 33.3hz.


I hate using phone... can't read posts while I'm posting, and many other things... The semovar is expensive, but it is modular and DC-DC(this I'm relaying from owners. I have not put it on a scope meter)..no frequency involved..I love the look and feel of it. You said you didn't want a provari mini cuz you couldn't use a 650 battery..so check that out.

 

[TheAmazingDave]

The MVP has a fast cycling speed.. it's similar to the provari.

Thanks for that, corrected my post.

 

[FlyBoyJourney]

Thanks for the GREAT technical explanation!

1. In real world results, with common Clearomizers and Cartomizers, is the difference really big enough to notice? do we really need that accuracy and voltage "stability" for basic ecig setups?

Also, I'm looking at the big picture, portability, design, combined with the accuracy/stability of the output, it's just one of the (important) characteristics of the mod.
So going back to my first question, MVP design isn't really what I'm looking for, I really rather have a long-style mod (such as the provari/vamo/zmax and such). Is there a better device than the Smok SID under $100 with an option for 18350-size (tele' or tube)?

Edit: iTaste 134 mini is also in my budget...

I am SOOOO surprised no one yet on this thread has mentioned the Innokin SVD!! Im NO salesman, and in fact have only been vapeing a few months, BUT I have moved quickly thru the ranks from E-cig (Last year now that I think about it) then to Evods and EGO twists ((with the associated power chart settings for low Ohm tanks)) etc etc. I did a TON of research (Grimm Green, PBusardo, The stoner from WA lol and a few others) and thought after all that; the SVD was simply a SMOKING deal lol.

Well heres my thoughts a month into it. The SVD is a CHAMP. LOVES 18650 batteries, and then TELESCOPES (like you want) down for the 18350. It just performs flawlessly and I paid 89 bucks for it (at a Brick and Mortar store, as I like to support local business) Saw it on another popular site for 99 bucks (Not the express kit which is just the MOD, but the whole package which includes the MOD, and two Iclear30 tanks and an extra tube) GREAT deal either way. And on FT for 60 something (if you dont mind waiting a month like one reviewer said) BUT heres the biggest kicker.....

VARIABLE WATTAGE! I remember from High School science the relationship between resistance and voltage, but with variable WATTAGE ((which the Provari does not offer)) you dont need to calculate the Ohms/voltage as setting the wattage will VARY the voltage for you. Piece of cake. The only thing I have varied is between 6.5 watts for some Ejuices to about 10 watts for others. Some flavor better hotter. Hope this helps!

 

[iknitsteel]

pulse width modulation (PWM) is a method of controlling output signal.

With PWM, the output pulse voltage remains constant. To lower the effective voltage, the output is pulsed a certain number of times per second. Lowering the number of pulses in a cycle lowers the voltage. This is why they generate a square wave on a scope.

An example is modern LED tail lighting in cars. If you move your eyes fast when they're lit, you can see them strobe. This is PWM. It allows the same set of LEDs to be ran at different brightness levels.

MVP (actually not the MVP) and a lot of others pulse at 33.3 Hz. The VTR and possibly other higher-end APVs pulse ~48 Hz.

Uhhhhh.... I think your description of PWM is half correct.
Pulse width modulation is the, for lack of better terms, the modulation of the pulse width. Meaning that the duration of the pulse is changed not the frequency it is pulsed at.
Your contradicting yourself when you say that "Lowering the number of pulses in a cycle lowers the voltage" and then say that "MVP (actually not the MVP) and a lot of others pulse at 33.3 Hz. The VTR and possibly other higher-end APVs pulse ~48 Hz." because if they change there pulse rate then there wouldn't be a definite 33.3Hz pulse rate, it would change to accommodate your power setting right?


What PWM is actually controlling is how long the pulse stays on (duty cycle) at the set 33.3 Hz or what ever frequency. For example if you have a VV/VW device that regulates output with PWM, with ranges from 3.0 volts to 6.0 volts very common limits, and you have it set on VV at a low setting like 3.5 volts, it will pulse at 6.0 volts, the max output, but the amount of time that the pulse stays at 6.0 volts (duty cycle) will be very short to give a average of 3.5 volts. Then the higher you set the voltage the longer the pulse will stay on giving a higher average voltage until you have it set at the max 6.0 volts where there will be no PWM but just a constant 6.o volts.

In simple terms the APV is putting out its max output all the time but is pulsing it at a specific frequency and changing how long that pulse lasts to give the average voltage you set.

Not to hijack the thread but just thought i should throw that out there


BTW I just got a Kayfun and put it on m VTR of course with a modification