Who here lived through the Cold War, fought Socialism/lived under it's terrible yoke?

[mrl]

I just care about if I can get treatment for pre existing medical conditions if everything turned private. I dont think I would. I earn a little over the average wage. I know that the principle that care for everyone has reduced my medical bills below what I otherwise would be charged despite the doctor visit fees we have in NZ.

ideology is fine if you can pay for stuff, but things become sticky if your a poor pleb lol

 

[mrl]

I have always thought benefits paid were a substitute for wages that should of be paid to workers by companies making a good profit. BTW I hate benefits and have nearly always worked. Only now have I earned a good wage to be able to afford luxuries, but don't begrudge people on benifits them. I think it is necessary to the human condition to enjoy things. Just my 2 cents lol thank god for spell check lol lol

 

[angel.white]

Why spend "X" number of years getting a education or seeking that new cure/invention,when your neighbor sweeps a floor for a living and lives the same lifestyle you do?

Why sweep floors when you could live the same lifestyle and get to become educated, and discover cures / seek out inventions to make the world better for everyone?

How empty it must be to feel that becoming educated, learned, discovering truth, helping others, challenging yourself, and making the world a better place are all chores one is forced to do if one ever wants to acquire enough dollars to justify snubbing their nose at their neighbour. In order to accept your thought process, one must be a narcissistic misanthrope.

The reason we have this advanced medical care is because people are willing and able to pay for it. If the medical profession were saddled with the yoke of socialism, these treatments would be unavailable, as they are in the more "enlightened" countries.

Only the rich can afford health care in America. Everyone else bands together through a handicapped version of socialism known as insurance. If you use insurance, you have socialist health care. Insurance is the misapplied medicine we use to treat the blight of capitalism in our health care system.

The very idea that people are able to draw a profit on these treatments is what allows them to be.

This is the very thing that corrupts them. How can there be a free market when the product is your life? How do you put a price on that? To put it simply, you can't. Our lives are held hostage over our wallets, we are not consumers, we are the extorted. There is no such thing as a free market in health care. This is why our health care system is so pathetic, the money motivator too frequently trumps the humanity motivator.

 

[bitfi3nd]

Why sweep floors when you could live the same lifestyle and get to become educated, and discover cures / seek out inventions to make the world better for everyone?

How empty it must be to feel that becoming educated, learned, discovering truth, helping others, challenging yourself, and making the world a better place are all chores one is forced to do if one ever wants to acquire enough dollars to justify snubbing their nose at their neighbour. In order to accept your thought process, one must be a narcissistic misanthrope.
Only the rich can afford health care in America. Everyone else bands together through a handicapped version of socialism known as insurance. If you use insurance, you have socialist health care. Insurance is the misapplied medicine we use to treat the blight of capitalism in our health care system.
This is the very thing that corrupts them. How can there be a free market when the product is your life? How do you put a price on that? To put it simply, you can't. Our lives are held hostage over our wallets, we are not consumers, we are the extorted. There is no such thing as a free market in health care. This is why our health care system is so pathetic, the money motivator too frequently trumps the humanity motivator.

Ridiculous. Ignorant.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ALTRUISM. Every action, even if it's jumping on a grenade to save your friends, is SELFISH. You do it because the other outcome would make you unhappy.

People are selfish by nature, and that is a good thing. We are not ants. If individuals are allowed to work towards their own goals- unfettered -we get the opportunity to purchase their produce with our labor.

Private healthcare is VOLUNTARY and PRIVATE. Not forced .gov bull****.

All I have left to say is YOU AND YOUR KIND ARE THE ENEMY OF HUMAN FREEDOM. Wait for the collapse that comes with the implementation of your insidious pal's goals. See how you fare.

See where this country is in 6 months. I'll be back then, if any of our infrastructure still works.

SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS

 

[b00stzx3]

I do much enjoy my socialist roads, my socialist police and my socialist public education

 

[Nuck]

Ridiculous. Ignorant.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ALTRUISM. Every action, even if it's jumping on a grenade to save your friends, is SELFISH. You do it because the other outcome would make you unhappy.

People are selfish by nature, and that is a good thing. We are not ants. If individuals are allowed to work towards their own goals- unfettered -we get the opportunity to purchase their produce with our labor.

Private healthcare is VOLUNTARY and PRIVATE. Not forced .gov bull****.

All I have left to say is YOU AND YOUR KIND ARE THE ENEMY OF HUMAN FREEDOM. Wait for the collapse that comes with the implementation of your insidious pal's goals. See how you fare.

See where this country is in 6 months. I'll be back then, if any of our infrastructure still works.

SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS

Well..you can't argue with such a well thought out and careful presented argument such as this.

Really. You can't.

 

[kraut]

Born 67 and grown up at a hot spot of cold war, in my opinion socialism AND capitalism can't proper work with us imperfect human beings. The reasons for that seem to be sadly the same: greediness...

 

[Kate]

I agree, one or the other is not going to work, it will have to be a compromise of both.

Moderation in everything and everything in moderation. The middle of the road is the place to be (unless a lorry is coming 8-o).

 

[surbitonPete]

I used to earn much more money than the guys who swept the floor because I had a far more skilled job and a better education but I wouldn't have cared at all if they were paid just as much as I was, they physically worked much harder than I did and I wouldn't have wanted to do their job even if I was paid more money to do it.

 

[cucurucho]

I agree, one or the other is not going to work, it will have to be a compromise of both.

Moderation in everything and everything in moderation. The middle of the road is the place to be (unless a lorry is coming 8-o).

I completely agree. However, the problem we have is that most "middle of the road" politicians today lean significantly to the right/authoritarian quadrant, as demonstrated by the good old political compass.

 

[Kate]

Yeah, I mean real middle, not relative to today's standards.

Wouldn't it be nice if everything was reset by a god to a default setting in the middle of everything, left/right and authoritarian/libertarian.

Maybe the Order of the Wholey Technofoggers can swing it with the powers that be

 

[Nuck]

The middle is too authoritarian.

Damn the man!

 

[Kate]

It's less authoritarian than current political trends in the developed world.

 

[strayling]

The middle has shifted so far to the right that they think the Democrats are left-wingers. Heck, by US standards even New Labour looks like a left wing party.

 

[Kate]

It always makes me laugh when I hear folk saying that Obama is a socialist.

 

[cucurucho]

Totally, I'd love to hear what they'd have to say if Nader ever got into power

 

[Nuck]

It's less authoritarian than current political trends in the developed world.

Sad but true. Natasha Richardson's tragic death already has a renewed movement to enforce helmets as mandatory on all ski slopes in Canada. Wouldn't want adults to make decisions on their own. Far too dangerous.

Death of British actress renews calls for snow helmets

 

[angel.white]

Ridiculous. Ignorant.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ALTRUISM. Every action, even if it's jumping on a grenade to save your friends, is SELFISH. You do it because the other outcome would make you unhappy.

Even if we were to accept that all altruism is selfish (I don't, but I'm trying to meet you on a level you can understand), it does not follow that all selfishness is altruistic.

Consider: I can do something beneficial for my neighbour, and it can help me, and we can choose to call this altruistic action selfish.

Or: I can do something destructive to my neighbour, and it can help me, we cannot call this selfish action altruistic.

Thus if we wish to rate actions, we must rate them by their altruism, and not their selfishness.

People are selfish by nature, and that is a good thing. We are not ants. If individuals are allowed to work towards their own goals- unfettered -we get the opportunity to purchase their produce with our labor.

This can at times be a good thing, but it is not inherently good (and by good I mean beneficial, as opposed to a positive moral). As evidence, I point out that we have a legal system.