Why are there no giudelines?!

[FACE MEAT]

First things first: I enjoy DIY and don't expect all of my attempts to be home runs. I also realize that taste is somewhat subjective.

I've got about a month's worth of DIY under my belt. Admittedly, I have almost no idea what the hell I'm doing. Trial and (mostly) error. Although I'm not concocting anything that'll hurt me, most of my DIYs leave much to be desired. I realize that mastering the art of DIY e-liquid is a long process with quite a steep learning curve.

Now, my question:

Why the hell don't flavor/concentrate manufacturers/vendors give their customers some sort of ballpark flavor concentrate percentage range for their consumers?

Mixed at 5%, "flavor A" and "flavor B" from the same manufacturer can turn out vastly varying and different (read: palatable) end products.

I can't figure out why the manufacturers/vendors don't give us, their customers, some guidance. It seems like they're of the opinion that the consumers deserve to waste a ton of product on our quest to mix something that's halfway decent.

 

[boomerdude]

Most concentrate vendors give an recommended percentage. Granted they are a bit on the general side but everyone has different tastes. While one may like a flavor at 3% another may prefer 8%. DIY takes a lot of experimentation so as you go along you gain more experience. Pretty much the same goes for cooking, painting, etc. Artistic pursuit doesn't come with a manual.

 

[Iffy]

Why the hell don't flavor/concentrate manufacturers/vendors give their customers some sort of ballpark flavor concentrate percentage range for their consumers?

First off, they're flav vendors, not DIYers. BTW, there are a limited few that do give some numbers.

Secondly, and probably da most important, hell, we can't agree here on da ECF as to 'target' percentages due to personal preferences!

Vendor - We recommend x to y percentage.
Consumer - What da Hades? Your flavs _____ (insert negative, favorite and banned adjective here)!!!

Just saying...

 

[FACE MEAT]

I haven't seen any recommended percentages on the vendor sites I frequent (E Cig Xpress and Wizard Labs).

Are they not there or am I not looking in the right place?

 

[JazzyTech]

Also consider that every batch made by the flavor manufacturers will not always be perfectly consistent. I've noticed more than once variations in strengths between orders. This is most noticable with flavors produced with natural/organic components.
I always start out at 1% and work my way up until I start tasting the flavor. I then either add more (if that's the only flavor) or I add others depending on my needs. Let's not even get started with what happens to the flavors when they've sat a week or two

 

[FACE MEAT]

First off, they're flav vendors, not DIYers. BTW, there are a limited few that do give some numbers.

Secondly, and probably da most important, hell, we can't agree here on da ECF as to 'target' percentages due to personal preferences!

Vendor - We recommend x to y percentage.
Consumer - What da Hades? Your flavs _____ (insert negative, favorite and banned adjective here)!!!

Just saying...

I get that. However, if I were in the business of making flavor concentrates, I would strive to give my entire line of flavors a similar level of concentration.

Maybe I'm asking too much. I still enjoy the feeling I get when I mix something decent. I relish the feeling of vaping a DIY that's good. I can't wait to DIY something that's excellent.

 

[Kevin Brown]

Proprietary mixtures and combo's

you can make flavors muse many different flavors so there is no set guideline

like apple and watermelon can make a spot on mango

or watermelon and apple make rosewater or better apple

one must remember these are flavor helpers'''' you can infuse from the real source

i have found out how to make watermelon do a number of different flavors

so there is no set measuring point your the chef get to experimenting

 

[Iffy]

... give my entire line of flavors a similar level of concentration.

Then in that case, an excellent chocolate flav would be 'bout $50 per ml!

(Just messing wid ya; although I think I might would pay that!)

 

[Red_Bird]

Face,


***HOW TO GAUGE UR PRIMARY INGREDIENT



When in doubt "Taste."

Take the cap off, slap u finger over the top and give it a tip. Taste fingertip.

If it tastes great 10-12%, minimum......if you are using 50% VG or more bump it 12-14% possibly 15%

Now....if it tastes stronger then u like use it at less then 10%

If your mouth and tongue are still tasting it 5 minutes later you better go a few percentage points lower.... 8% or less

If its overpoweringly strong instantly go 5% or less..

If u eyes roll back in ur head and u clutch out for water.......stagger towards a faucet go 2.5% or less

 

[FACE MEAT]

Are you suggesting I taste the concentrate or a flavor/base mix? I assume you're referring to the concentrate but thatght I'd ask, just incase.

 

[Red_Bird]

Ya, taste the flavoring (concentrate) before you figure out what percentage to use in your DIY ejuice.

It can save you from a bad batch. Its all food grade and safe, btw.

 

[AngelsBreath]

Okay, what I don't understand...the Super Concentrates from Vaping Zone...they recommend 1-2.5% if I do anything over it kinda freaks people out cause they insist they've never gone over 3% with the SC from VZ lol. It's like what the crap, how am I supposed to do this? lmao. I've been talking to Red and FB about this and it's just crazy.
I suggested that there be a recipe thread for specific manufacturers cause VZ strawberry is WAYYYYYYYY differen't from Capellas strawberry so I hear.

 

[Red_Bird]

Super concentrate means just that....its meant to be super strong....so theoretically you would need to use much less of a % as your primary ingredient.

but tasting is believing.....many companies will say anything to make a sale....let your tastebuds guide you...always

what I say and others say can give you a ballpark idea....we all have diff tastes.....so I strongly suggest tasting everything before making a large batch......every single flavor u put in....

ya may need to drink water and rinse in between tasting flavors

 

[AngelsBreath]

That's why my juices don't have any flavor...cause I'm not using enough. I just think that I'm not getting enough flavor, I want MORE flavor Ughhhhhhhhhhh lol

 

[DuaneNeveu]

I feel your pain...truly.

I first started doing DIY after only vaping for about a month. Immediately, I came to greatly respect the e-juice vendors whose offerings I enjoyed. There's a lot of trial and error involved, and "nailing it" comes after diligent experimentation.

My suspicion is that because we don't enjoy any decent level of consistency amongst ourselves in regards to mixing practices, and because those who have established hard and fast rules for flavours in their "vape-pantry" are often vendors, keys to success remain elusive...not because they aren't obtainable, but because they're guarded. Having worked so hard to decipher the truth, most would balk at the thought of sharing full details.

Having been a restauranteur for many years, my palate has become fairly highly developed, and my prowess in a kitchen is above average (I'd say, though my wife, friends, and family tend to agree). Still, much to my dismay, I've found that mixing e-juice simply can't be approached in the same way as the culinary arts. From time to time one can find success with "a dash of this, or a smidgen of that", but generally it's not at all like a food recipe. Flavourings each have their optimal ratio, but adding a second won't necessarily be a compliment because they don't all play well together at just any ratio...oh yeah, and don't even get me started about subjective tastes.

I would think that you'd all agree that expecting three to five experiments to arrive at a good single flavour isn't at all unreasonable, or even terribly difficult. The trouble begins when we try to combine singular flavours that we love in the hopes that we'll create that magic ADV with the satisfying nuances and subtleties we set out to produce. There's a bit of alchemy and magic to that, and a whole lot of kitchen sink batches to get through first.

As a result, a few weeks ago I went back to the drawing board. I've begun doing several single-flavour batches of the nearly eighty flavours in my repertoire to better become intimate with their characteristics, making painstaking notes all the while. It's ridiculously time consuming and often frustrating, but I hope to eventually know them all as well as I understand the herbs and spices that I've worked with for decades. Maybe then, I'll produce a multi-faceted juice that the masses love, just as a handful of vendors have managed with some of their creations.

It took me years to hone my skills and understanding in becoming a good cook. I fully expect the same will be required in the production of fantastic e-juice.

 

[Red_Bird]

You won't learn much making one flavor ejuices.....I was making 4-5 flavor eliquids within 30 days of mixing.

How different flavorings combine is what you need to learn.....how they steep......and if its an ADV or not.

I've tossed 3 or 4 batches in 9-10 months.....sold a few, sold a few recipes.

You need to be creative to make good eliquid......and learn which companies make which flavor the most accurate.....and then how well certain flavors combine with others.

if u think eliquid vendors make the best ejuices you are kidding yourself.....if they did nobody would DIY.....I started DIY'ing because out of the 20 juices I bought I liked 3......

you can tailor every juice you create to your own tastebuds......the more flavorings u own the more versatile and creative your liquids can become

 

[FACE MEAT]

I feel your pain...truly.

So DIY is like baking, not cooking. Mostly science and barely any art.

I ****ing hate baking. There's no room to play around and experiment.

I love eating baked goods though. Just as I love vaping an expertly crafted e-liquid.

Oh, the humanity.

 

[DuaneNeveu]

You won't learn much making one flavor ejuices.....I was making 4-5 flavor eliquids within 30 days of mixing.

How different flavorings combine is what you need to learn.....how they steep......and if its an ADV or not.

I've tossed 3 or 4 batches in 9-10 months.....sold a few, sold a few recipes.

You need to be creative to make good eliquid......and learn which companies make which flavor the most accurate.....and then how well certain flavors combine with others.

if u think eliquid vendors make the best ejuices you are kidding yourself.....if they did nobody would DIY.....I started DIY'ing because out of the 20 juices I bought I liked 3......

you can tailor every juice you create to your own tastebuds......the more flavorings u own the more versatile and creative your liquids can become

I agree with everything you've said with the exception of the first sentence.

Respectfully, I believe that knowing single flavours intimately can only help in the creation in combinations that employ them. I don't believe vendors can necessarily outdo me down the road, but they are way ahead of me in experimentation right now. That's the crux of it.

 

[DuaneNeveu]

So DIY is like baking, not cooking. Mostly science and barely any art.

I ****ing hate baking. There's no room to play around and experiment.

I love eating baked goods though. Just as I love vaping an expertly crafted e-liquid.

Oh, the humanity.

I don't know that it's like either...it is its own thing, IMO.

 

[Red_Bird]

You can taste the flavoring on your tongue and gauge it. Instead of wasting nic on a one flavor ejuice you will get bored with.

I can know it seconds how much to use in the recipe I want to make.