Why can't someone make a rechargeable PV that is the same size of the NJoy King and vapes like it too?

[UncleChuck]

I just posted a lengthy reply in the njoy King megathread on this specific topic. I figure it's relevant here so I'll copy what I said in the other thread:

"So many many pages back in this thread I had suggested the design that njoy could use in order to make the Kings rechargeable, with replaceable cartos, basically turning it into a standard cigalike rechargeable unit.

BUT, with some specific goals:

Must not change the outward appearance of the unit
Must keep additional weight to an absolute minimum
The design should be simple and inexpensive to produce

I'm not sure how specific I got in that post, but I know I wasn't as specific as I'd like. So I drew a picture. I would have mocked this up in AutoCad but I wiped it during a reformat of my hard drive, and lost the CD, so I had to use MS Paint. Don't judge me

View attachment 176253

As you can see it's a two piece design. The pic is sort of large, open it in another window and zoom in if you can't see the details. The current materials of the King (soft plastic tube) would still be used. There is very little metal, only two small pieces of metal would be on the carto, and two on the battery. These would be about the thickness of an aluminum soda can, friction fit into a slot in the carto, then bend out and laid flat against the side of the carto's male end.

The battery's female connection would just be the tube, with the same metal contacts laying flat against the inside. When you insert the carto, make sure the contacts are lined up and then just push the carto into the battery. The metal contacts will meet up completing the circuit, as well as acting as springs to keep tension on the joint between the carto and battery. Polarity will not matter as the only thing in the carto is a coil, which doesn't care which way current is flowing.

As you can see this is a very cheap, easy, lightweight method to turn the King into a rechargeable unit. I can't imagine this adding more than a few cents to the total cost of each unit. Replacement cartos could be sold instead of an entire new King. Say, a buck a piece, even if you go through a few a day that isn't much money at all.

Even at $1.50 ea. I think Njoy could still make a good profit and customers would be happy. Standard cartos, with metal tubes, metal 510 connections, sometimes punched holes or flanges sell (on the low end) for that price or lower, so I see no reason why making the carto out of much cheaper materials, with a less complex design requiring fewer tools and machines wouldn't result in a carto with a retail price that is lower than what we are used to seeing for regular cartos.

Is it as strong, reliable, and long lasting as a traditional connection with metal bits and threading? No. But that's the idea. The King is supposed to be light, small, and ideally would be cheap. This design would make the King more of a semi-disposable, as the batteries can be recharged, and new cartos purchased, but the overall construction and cost means that it's no biggie if you battery dies, or you break the connection, or something stops working. Just buy a new unit, they are dirt cheap.

What do you guys think? Do you like the idea of it being a two piece rechargeable, or would you prefer the King exactly as it is right now, just cheaper? Any major flaws with the design? Any better design you can think of? Let me know! (And if anyone at NJoy sees this post, please realize I just did all the thinking and figuring for you, so please, take advantage, produce a product that people would really, really, really like, and be a bit more fair to your customers that want to use your product, yet you refuse to release a reasonable setup)"

 

[UncleChuck]

One more thing-

It seems some people don't "get it" when it comes to the King. I can't even count how many times I've seen people suggest an eRoll or some other cigalike on the market to those wanting something just like the King, but rechargeable.

There isn't anything like the King, period. Well, except for a real cigarette.

The weight, the overall feel, the texture of the paper, the size, the flavor, the throat hit, the extremely accurate looking ash cap, the carto that could be confused for the filter on a real cigarette, nothing matches the king.

Some people don't like them, that's fine, but nobody can argue the King is... well THE King when it comes to cigalikes.

I've shown the Kings to: Four friends, two servers at a local bar, my mother and father, my aunt, and my grandmother. Of those 10 people, most of those people smoke, so they are very familiar with real cigarettes. All of those people have seen my other vape gear, have some have used my RBAs on VW Devices, used my egos, used TONS of other cigalikes (I'm always trying to convert people with cigalikes, so they have seen the other options)

What happened each and every time those people saw the King? They were amazed. Not once, ever, had any of them been so excited about a piece of vaping equipment that I showed them. They were blown away. They all agreed it's the MOST accurate ecig they have ever seen, and nearly identical to a real cig in all respects.

This same response to the King has been repeated by many many people here on ECF, just check out the 40 (+?) pages of the NJoy King thread.

I'd consider myself a veteran vaper, and I still really want a reasonable Njoy King setup. Which means rechargeable. Rarely do I use cigalikes, but if a rechargeable king kit came out that would change.

I still enjoy being able to smoke without even noticing you have something in your hand. Even with the smallest and lightest cigalikes the device never really just becomes an extension of your hand like a real cig would do. The King does, for me at least.

 

[JP_Guinness]

Even at $1.50 ea. I think Njoy could still make a good profit and customers would be happy. Standard cartos, with metal tubes, metal 510 connections, sometimes punched holes or flanges sell (on the low end) for that price or lower, so I see no reason why making the carto out of much cheaper materials, with a less complex design requiring fewer tools and machines wouldn't result in a carto with a retail price that is lower than what we are used to seeing for regular cartos.

Right on, man! Right on. I may have dropped out of VA Tech's engineering program, but I did pick up a BS in business. The business minded part of me tells me that even if NJoy made one penny per unit sold, they would still make a huge profit because every smoker this side of the galaxy would buy them. This is exactly how stores like Walmart and even Giant Food make a fortune.

Anyway, hopefully you're right (whoever mentioned it), and NJoy is just testing the market and maybe even stimulating demand so they can make a better version.

 

[UncleChuck]

Right on, man! Right on. I may have dropped out of VA Tech's engineering program, but I did pick up a BS in business. The business minded part of me tells me that even if NJoy made one penny per unit sold, they would still make a huge profit because every smoker this side of the galaxy would buy them. This is exactly how stores like Walmart and even Giant Food make a fortune.

Exactly!

There was some discussion on the sales aspects in the King megathread awhile back. About how Njoy has the opportunity to huge, and I mean really huge. They need to copy big tobacco. I know that sounds bad to some, but it's true. A pack of smokes doesn't cost 10 bucks, or even 5 bucks. Nearly all of that is taxes. Cigarettes are dirt cheap, yet BT still makes a killing people MILLIONS of people buy their product on a daily basis, and those same people CONTINUE to make that same purchase day, after day, after day, for years, decades even. THAT is big money.

What sounds better from a business standpoint, ripping people off on price to make a few million sales, or giving the customer what it wants, make less profit per sale, but make literally billions of sales, that will continue indefinitely. The answer should be obvious to Njoy, but for some reason it's not. Methinks either Njoy just doesn't have any desire to become bigger than they are and make mad money, or they have some people placed in positions where they really shouldn't be. Anyone that says no to the idea that all of us have been screaming about forever has no business being in that position.

 

[JP_Guinness]

I don't see what this product provides that cig-a-likes haven't provided for years, other than the lighter battery and squishy carto, which was a pretty smart innovation. It's still just a small improvement in form.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Lighter battery; squishy carto; exact size of a ciggy; the end lights up just like a ciggy, with the orange emitted from the LED not just lighting up the end but a little but of the sides as well.

Hell, when I leave a King at my desk at work, sometimes I have to do a double-take b/c I thunk its a real cig at first.

I've been vaping since the early golden years of PVs (2008). I've also browsed those forums for years too. I'm telling you guys this: I don't think ecig manufacturers have completely realized how incredibly powerful the psychological part of cigarette addiction can be. I'm referring not to how we psychologically crave nicotine, but to how our brains after decades of smoking have become conditioned to that one very specific ritual; the ritual of smoking. If one thing changes about that ritual, our brains realize this.

Sucking on a flashlight sized PV does not fully satisfy my need for that ritual. To me, these are nothing but a nicotine replacement device (which I enjoy mucho, btw)

 

[UncleChuck]

Lighter battery; squishy carto; exact size of a ciggy; the end lights up just like a ciggy, with the orange emitted from the LED not just lighting up the end but a little but of the sides as well.

Hell, when I leave a King at my desk at work, sometimes I have to do a double-take b/c I thunk its a real cig at first.

I've been vaping since the early golden years of PVs (2008). I've also browsed those forums for years too. I'm telling you guys this: I don't think ecig manufacturers have completely realized how incredibly powerful the psychological part of cigarette addiction can be. I'm referring not to how we psychologically crave nicotine, but to how our brains after decades of smoking have become conditioned to that one very specific ritual; the ritual of smoking. If one thing changes about that ritual, our brains realize this.

Sucking on a flashlight sized PV does not fully satisfy my need for that ritual. To me, these are nothing but a nicotine replacement device (which I enjoy mucho, btw)

Very good point. For me personally, nicotine is a very small aspect of my addiction to cigarettes. I believe the MAOIs and other alkaloids and anti-depressant like chemicals in cigarettes were a large part of the addiction due to the mood calming effects in addition to the nicotine. This was a big issue for me at first, when I started vaping, but after awhile now I no longer feel the need for the other chemicals in cigarettes.

BUT, I still do feel the need for something the exact shape, size, and nearly identical weight and vape experience, a role which the King fills incredibly well for me. This is something that I don't think will go away for me, I've been vaping for a few years now and the desire is still with me.

Just as an example to back up what you say about how strong the mental aspect of it is, I have heard that ...... addicts, before actually consuming the drug, can sometimes actually feel the effects of the drug before using it. Their brain is excited because it knows it's going to shortly get the drug, and it tricks itself into feeling it already.

Some of them also would feel the nausea associated with the drug before actually consuming the drug.

I've also seen tests where they would have a food product, like jello, and have people taste it and figure out the flavor. They would color the jello something that does not match what the real flavor is, and it would confuse the people into actually tasting the color of the jello. Orange colored jello would taste like orange, even though it was a strawberry flavor. Or red would taste like cherry or strawberry even though it was lemon. That sort of thing.

Goes to show how powerful the mind is. I know the examples I gave aren't exactly like what you are talking about, but I think it helps to illustrate the same concept.

I personally put the Njoy King in a different mental category than any other vaping equipment. For me, when I use one, I do not feel like I am vaping at all. No other device is capable of tricking me like that.

 

[noi_max]

K got the thinking cap on. To maintain the light weight and mostly plastic construction, reuse the battery and just have replaceable cartos.
The connectors that screw on cartos to batteries would add too much weight. A possible solution would be a flimsier, press-fit design. Two contacts reside in the well which holds the battery, and the carto simply has two wires that make contact once the carto is fit into the rest of the tube design.

Ever see how miniature christmas tree lights go onto the wire? Same principle.

The PCC could have sturdier contacts for the rechargeable battery, since weight of the PCC is less of an issue. If the PCC were 1000+ mAh, and held 2 or 3 of the battery housings you could potentially vape all day carrying something not much larger than an ordinary pack of cigarettes.

When the carto wears out, you can press-fit in a new one for much less cost than the whole unit.. and less cost than even a standard carto if there's no threaded connection. Just plastic, wires, coil, filler material and juice.

Now designing a rechargeable battery to match these concepts, and maintain the same light weight, have plenty of charge cycles to make it worthwhile and handle changing cartos in this fashion would be the real trick.
The problem would be long-term durability. We're talking about plastic parts that would be easy to break and wear out. The whole thing would be really "cheap" feeling, as far as PVs go, but uber light weight being the goal, you're bound to have these sorts of trade-offs.

 

[UncleChuck]

K got the thinking cap on. To maintain the light weight and mostly plastic construction, reuse the battery and just have replaceable cartos.
The connectors that screw on cartos to batteries would add too much weight. A possible solution would be a flimsier, press-fit design. Two contacts reside in the well which holds the battery, and the carto simply has two wires that make contact once the carto is fit into the rest of the tube design.

Ever see how miniature christmas tree lights go onto the wire? Same principle.

The PCC could have sturdier contacts for the rechargeable battery, since weight of the PCC is less of an issue. If the PCC were 1000+ mAh, and held 2 or 3 of the battery housings you could potentially vape all day carrying something not much larger than an ordinary pack of cigarettes.

When the carto wears out, you can press-fit in a new one for much less cost than the whole unit.. and less cost than even a standard carto if there's no threaded connection. Just plastic, wires, coil, filler material and juice.

Now designing a rechargeable battery to match these concepts, and maintain the same light weight, have plenty of charge cycles to make it worthwhile and handle changing cartos in this fashion would be the real trick.
The problem would be long-term durability. We're talking about plastic parts that would be easy to break and wear out. The whole thing would be really "cheap" feeling, as far as PVs go, but uber light weight being the goal, you're bound to have these sorts of trade-offs.

Sounds nearly identical to the idea I posted, great minds think alike

I think my post is on the last page, I posted up a picture to reinforce the idea a bit. Great idea with the PCC though, that would make it a much more useful device.

Your totally right that it would feel extremely cheap and flimsy compared to the gear we are all using. But that what we want, cheap and flimsy just like a real cig. Considering the extremely low cost this design could be produced for, replacing components more frequently shouldn't be an issue economically speaking.

The cheapyness of it, I think, would be a plus for getting smokers to begin vaping. Most smokers I know do NOT want to fiddle with anything. They are used to buying a pack of cigarettes, smoking them, and then throwing the box away. If they could go to the store, but a few 2-piece Kings, and a box of cartos (a pcc would be nice too as you brought up) they just use it until something breaks or wears out and toss it.

Right now that wouldn't really work, because of the cost of rechargeable cigalikes. But with what we're talking about here, they could be made so cheap it doesn't sting at all to toss out the battery or carto, while still being able to recharge the battery as to keep costs down.

 

[noi_max]

Sounds nearly identical to the idea I posted, great minds think alike

I think my post is on the last page, I posted up a picture to reinforce the idea a bit. Great idea with the PCC though, that would make it a much more useful device.

Your totally right that it would feel extremely cheap and flimsy compared to the gear we are all using. But that what we want, cheap and flimsy just like a real cig. Considering the extremely low cost this design could be produced for, replacing components more frequently shouldn't be an issue economically speaking.

Ah well see, I should have stopped and read all of your post
Judging by your location, there must be something in the water. I've had an NJoy King taken apart. Heck, they're disposable, might as well get a utility knife and see what's inside, right?
Not a whole lot going on in there... but enough to make it an e-cig. It is pretty remarkable how they got it all to taste, feel etc.. like a real cigarette.
I liked your drawing Yes great minds...

 

[noi_max]

Oh put the charging contacts at the light-up end of the e-cig and keep the "zippo" flip-top on the PCC. That would be cool.

I wonder if NJoy is hiring hehe.

 

[JP_Guinness]

K got the thinking cap on. To maintain the light weight and mostly plastic construction, reuse the battery and just have replaceable cartos.
The connectors that screw on cartos to batteries would add too much weight. A possible solution would be a flimsier, press-fit design. Two contacts reside in the well which holds the battery, and the carto simply has two wires that make contact once the carto is fit into the rest of the tube design.

Ever see how miniature christmas tree lights go onto the wire? Same principle.

The PCC could have sturdier contacts for the rechargeable battery, since weight of the PCC is less of an issue. If the PCC were 1000+ mAh, and held 2 or 3 of the battery housings you could potentially vape all day carrying something not much larger than an ordinary pack of cigarettes.

When the carto wears out, you can press-fit in a new one for much less cost than the whole unit.. and less cost than even a standard carto if there's no threaded connection. Just plastic, wires, coil, filler material and juice.

Now designing a rechargeable battery to match these concepts, and maintain the same light weight, have plenty of charge cycles to make it worthwhile and handle changing cartos in this fashion would be the real trick.
The problem would be long-term durability. We're talking about plastic parts that would be easy to break and wear out. The whole thing would be really "cheap" feeling, as far as PVs go, but uber light weight being the goal, you're bound to have these sorts of trade-offs.

You read my mind. This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. When Imagined a press-fit design, I picture it like this: the cartridge, which is made of plastic would have a large deep well on it's battery end (deep concave hole, and this). This deep well would fit over the battery end (so the cartridge is the female and the battery is male). Now, it may seem like after you fit the cartridge onto the batt, you would have ridges flanking slightly out to the sides all around the ecig. You wouldn't, though, because the battery would have a plastic casing just like the NJoy does now, but this plastic casing would only extend down the length of the battery as far as it needs to meet the plastic casing from the cartridge perfectly flush.

As for what you said about the charging...well, you've already been proved right. The Colibri and the SafeCig Micro (both of which suck like a porn star), charge in a jiffy.

 

[JP_Guinness]

Ah well see, I should have stopped and read all of your post
Judging by your location, there must be something in the water. I've had an NJoy King taken apart. Heck, they're disposable, might as well get a utility knife and see what's inside, right?
Not a whole lot going on in there... but enough to make it an e-cig. It is pretty remarkable how they got it all to taste, feel etc.. like a real cigarette.
I liked your drawing Yes great minds...

UncleChuck is who inspired my thinking. Forgot to mention that

 

[Faylool]

I'm with you. I'm the farthest they come from being smart about such stuff but the thing is very popular except price. I still want something disposable ...to a point...that thing is a huge waste of money as it is. I've adapted very well to the eRoll and I know the market for awesome cig a likes is hot. I'm thinking by the time I use up all my eRoll stuff they'll have something with the gushy end, glows orange and refills etc...if you havent tried eRoll I think it will be hard to beat until they come out with a different kind of powersource

 

[UncleChuck]

Ah well see, I should have stopped and read all of your post
Judging by your location, there must be something in the water. I've had an NJoy King taken apart. Heck, they're disposable, might as well get a utility knife and see what's inside, right?
Not a whole lot going on in there... but enough to make it an e-cig. It is pretty remarkable how they got it all to taste, feel etc.. like a real cigarette.
I liked your drawing Yes great minds...

Didn't notice you were in Portland too, something in the water indeed

I don't know about you, but I'm waiting for my check from Njoy for promoting those things to everyone I know, as well as doing their designer's work for them.

I almost want to try and borrow money to have a large batch of my own design made by someone in China. I could draw up professional quality plans for the device and have them made in China fairly easily, the problem is getting the juice right, figuring out exactly what type of paper they are using on the outside of the tube.

That's how crazy Njoy is making people.

 

[Faylool]

I'm confused. Does suck like a porn star mean really good or really bada. I wouldn't know and I'm getting ready to look those two up if they are good. I'm kinda doubting they are since I've never heard of them

 

[Faylool]

Throw some 36mg in an eroll and call it a day

Absolutely and you will not have such a nasty harsh hit. But I never tried the lower nicotine version of the King. Not at that price. Mine was free sample. I aint no fool

 

[JP_Guinness]

I'm confused. Does suck like a porn star mean really good or really bada. I wouldn't know and I'm getting ready to look those two up if they are good. I'm kinda doubting they are since I've never heard of them

It means sucks very hard --so I guess it's good if you're on the receiving...(ok, I don't want to get banned)


...the porn star wouldn't like the SafeCig though. It sucks. Harder than she sucks. In a bad way. Not like her. ...I'll shut up

 

[Unforeseen]

Moved to APV Model Specific Discussion - KR808D-1

 

[lexpres61]

Yep it sure is!

There is no counter argument.

I'm sure we will get the usual self righteous guys who think their .... dont stink because they vape on a large device, but those people are basically saying they don't care if smokers die. Because the facts are most smokers will only ever use a small ecig out in public.

There a millions and millions of smokers. The easiest way to get their money is to develop the best cigalike looking ecig.

That's funny. I notice that the bigger the device, the bigger and more superior some vapers attitudes are. Notice the word "some", not all.

 

[UncleChuck]

808D section seems an odd choice for this thread, no?