Why do atty's fail?

[thewomenfolk]

Why do atty's fail? I have a little copper JOYE 510 I wear around my neck all day and just love it (my Janty Stick is in its holster at my waist But why can't someone make an atomizer that lasts a couple of years or a lifetime?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

TheWomenFold---the residue on the coil builds up and eventually snaps the leads of the coil. Even with cleaning, the coil leads weaken at their soilder joints and fail like a filiment in a light bulb. Coupled with the constant heating and contracting of the coil over and over again, it is going to fail. A thicker coil may last longer but might also pull too much current and also burn too hot for our needs so it is a catch 22 at this point.

Sun

 

[mischiefgrrl]

My first two attys from my starter kit died this week and my spare is seeming like it wants to retire as well. Thank goodness, I ordered from RMV today so I know I'll have my new ones on Monday.

I don't know what caused the two to die. I just know that I was drawing like crazy just to get a little bit of vapor out of them. One of them, I did see the wicking material come out from under the bridge. It was singed on the edges.

RIP to my original two attys. You did good... made it almost 2 months and got me off of analogs.

 

[Snarkyone]

Let's be clear about one thing with these that EVERYONE seems to overlook or never learned. They were never intended to be a full time replacement for tobacco cigarettes. They were to be used when tobacco smoking was not an option. They were not designed for everyday long term use. If that's what your looking for then you are going to be disappointed. If you can adopt the mentality that these are consumables just like the tobacco cigarettes you used to smoke but cheaper you will get more enjoyment and satisfaction from these. If your like most smokers you could buy a new kit each month and still save money over buying tobacco not to mention the health benefits. The atomizers especially take a beating in this process. They are the heart and soul of the E-Cig, much like the engine in your car, that Cadillac or BMW sure looks pretty but it is useless without the engine under the hood.

What I do is just rotate among my kits throughout the day. I am not putting all that stress on one atomizer, and I also use a KR808D-1 cartomizer as well. I don't mind spending under $15 for a fresh atomizer each month, the flavor improvement if your like me and try a bunch of flavors until you get a few that you like can just cake a atomizer with all kinds of different flavors eventually resulting in a cruddy taste and poor performance if your not careful.

For the best enjoyment either rotate your atomizers or plan on replacing them once a month for the ultimate in performance. I don't buy the argument that it is too expensive and that you could just smoke for that cost. It's still tons cheaper than smoking tobacco even if I was to spend the money on a new atomizer each week! One thing about replacing them before they die is that you also have a stash of working atomizers if you ever find yourself in a pinch, or if you like to mod.

 

[mischiefgrrl]

This is true. I actually only expected mine to last one month and am happy with the nearly two that they lasted. I had planned on building up a better stock for these situations but got hit with a nifty 20% paycut that forced me to wait before adding any more to my stock. Thankfully, this month I broke even between e-cigs and analogs so I could buy another atty and months worth of e-liquid. I keep thinking of how much worse this cut would be if there were no e-cigs!

 

[trog100]

the real thing folks need to take in is they dont ether simply work or die.. with use they become less effective and produce less vapor..

if a user dosnt expect much from them they can keep using them until they fail completely or in other words die.. depending on use and the amount of devices folks keep cycling thru this can be months..

but if near new performance is required from them they have to be replaced long before they totally fail...

all cycling does is mean they all fail at once.. it dosnt prolong the real life of the things in the slightest..

the oft posted picture that should tell the story of why atomizers dont last long..

an atomizer still working okay after about ones weeks use..

this little part gets heated red hot each time you puff.. it starts off as a wire wrapped around an absorbent wick...

the real problem isnt the wire failing its the simply fact the wick soon ceases to be a wick and turns into a lump of charred bunt coal..

if you need them to work as intended and need to use them to replace a full time smoking habit they need be replaced often..

this is a simple fact... everything else you read is just bums on seats forum filling waffle.. which is what busy forums are really about.. getting bums on seats..

it has been estimated around 5000 puffs is an atomizers effective use life span.. bung you own time period around this..

trog

 

[Giantfan]

I have had my kit for a about 3 weeks, and the atomizers work great. I decided to clean one as an experiment today. I did so because I noticed the filler material was turning dark brown, and I realized it wasn't the fluid causing this. I soaked it in vodka and a lot of fibers and brown liquid came off it. I rinsed it and am drying it now. I hope it works again.

 

[trog100]

I have had my kit for a about 3 weeks, and the atomizers work great. I decided to clean one as an experiment today. I did so because I noticed the filler material was turning dark brown, and I realized it wasn't the fluid causing this. I soaked it in vodka and a lot of fibers and brown liquid came off it. I rinsed it and am drying it now. I hope it works again.

came out of it might be a better description.. a mini atomizer is full of wire wool stuff.. this holds the liquid that feeds the heater coil.. the cart keeps the wire wool topped up.. this wire wool can get gunged up with all the liquid that passes thru it.. just like the wool in the cart can if its used for too long..

however gunged up wire wool can produce a harder draw but it isnt really connected to the heater coil wick simply getting burned to a crisp.. which is the real problem and the real reason why atomizers soon stop working as they should..

a million people have probably cleaned a million atomizers since e smoking came into being.. atomizer are atomizers.. no really effective way has been found to prolong the life of the things.. this dosnt really matter because they are cheap and easily replaced..

as snarkyone said.. e cigs were designed and intended for light occasional use..

they will work for all day and every day use but only if treated as semi disposable items.. no real problem here except folks are conned into thinking they are fit for a purpose they were never intended to be used for..

my next question is a simple one.. who exactly is doing the conning..

trog

ps... used occasionally 5000 puffs can be a long time... used all day and every day it can be two weeks.. two weeks is in semi disposable land.. time isnt what matters its the puff count that matters..

ps.2.. if this thread was sticked folks might learn something useful.. being as it wont be the waffle continues and the seats get bums on them..

 

[happily]

I have dozens of new atomizers sitting on hold. If mine even looks at me funny it's going in the trash. I can afford $5-$10 a month to replace my $300 a month habit.

 

[Keef]

If you cant be bothered counting puffs measure the liquid you use.

I use about 40 - 50ml per atomiser for optimum results after that its on its way to the atty graveyard.

 

[trog100]

If you cant be bothered counting puffs measure the liquid you use.

I use about 40 - 50ml per atomiser for optimum results after that its on its way to the atty graveyard.

carts used or liquid vaporized is good way of measuring things..

time is a meaningless disasterouse way of measuring things..

you are kinder to them than i am keef i would knock bit off that perhaps 30 to 40 but we are in the same ball park..

the other simple way.. one that people who cycle theirs around miss out on is always have new ones to compare with..

but the real point that needs making is people are being mislead.. i could say lied to but i wont.. what i will say is the truth is not being made clear to folks who buy into the world of e smoking..

the truth is a simple one... people are not being told that these things are not really intended or suitable for folks who wish to replace their heavy smoking habit with them..

the first con was each cart is the same as a packet of real cigs.. that one is now mostly been put down.. the big con hasnt tho..

mind you there is a double edged sword at work here.. the better the con the more folks will buy into the e cig world.. the truth might not sell so many e cigs..

the only real difference here would be the upkeep costs.. selling the things as semi disposable simply means the long term running costs are way higher than a lot of new buyers think they are.. the plus side is the frustration would be less.. folks would at least know what they are buying into..

trog

 

[Giantfan]

trog, I think it will move that way in the future. Once the big tobacco companies, big pharma, or whoever get involved, which they will, they will try and model the e cigarette experience around the cigarette smoking experience. Meaning, buying a "pack" with cheap disposable parts, and throwing them away when done.

 

[Scottbee]

trog, I think it will move that way in the future. Once the big tobacco companies, big pharma, or whoever get involved, which they will, they will try and model the e cigarette experience around the cigarette smoking experience. Meaning, buying a "pack" with cheap disposable parts, and throwing them away when done.

That's certainly the business model and product design behind the KR808D-1/VK/Greencig etc. cartomizers. Something to be said for that.

 

[trog100]

trog, I think it will move that way in the future. Once the big tobacco companies, big pharma, or whoever get involved, which they will, they will try and model the e cigarette experience around the cigarette smoking experience. Meaning, buying a "pack" with cheap disposable parts, and throwing them away when done.

yes i think it will.. Ruyan already moved that way with their disposable cigar..

the problem with be the price.. little paper tubes filled with tobacco leaves cost nothing to make.. they are a huge cash cow both for the makers and the tax-man..

e cigs can be made fairly cheaply but the money for nothing factor wont be there like it is with tobacco..

trog

 

[Giantfan]

True, but they they may make up for that with volume. If e cigs are finally cleared as not hazardous, more people will start using them. If they are allowed to be used everywhere, then no doubt there will be more e cigarette users than cigarette users, at least in the western world.

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

I haven't been vaping long enough to really know why the atty's fail.

I have killed one on accident by doing dry burns to try and get rid of a burnt taste. (Looking back, if I would have just juiced up the atty good, that could have been avoided.) I popped one running it at 6V with not much juice in it, and another one just up and died out of the blue. I can only guess that one died of natural causes

So far, for me, it seems the problem is not keeping them juiced up enough. I am pretty confident that an atty can last a good long while, especially if you have a device that can run at multiple voltages, or multiple devices at least.

When the atty's resistance is lower, it will heat up quickly and work quite well at 3.7V. Over time the resistance builds, and the performance will become very weak at 3.7V. You can move that atty to a 5V device like a passthrough (without an in-line battery) and see better performance. When the performance drops again on the atty, as the resistance builds, you can move that same atty to a 6V device and perhaps get the last use of the atty with decent performance before it finally dies.

I haven't thrown away an atty that still fires up yet. I just run them as long as possible, through the gauntlet of PV's, until they finally go cold. I am guessing I can get a good 6-8 weeks use from an atty this way.

There are of course the weak atty's. I suspect they die due to manufacturing defect.

EDIT: Well I decided to dissect my one atty that is cold, but still had a resistance reading of 4.5. I wasn't very gentle in dismantling it, however, I was able to say that every single solder point had wires connected to them, so the soldering points were not the problem. Further, I finally got to the actual heating element, which had the classic caking of burnt liquid and the wick itself in the middle of the heating coil. I straightened the heating coil out, and as a result all of the charred liquid broke off without any issues. The heating element wire was still soldered nicely to the red wires.

I can only assume the failure was somewhere else, but I have no idea where

 

[Eric in AK]

I first heard of e-cigs when I saw a banner ad for Blu e-cigs on a web site. Before making a purchase, I looked for online reviews and information, and that's how I found ECF. I ended up getting a Joye 510 based on advice from forum users, but when shopping for the 510 I looked at the warranty information on various sites. A couple of them were rather blunt in saying they offered, say, a 7-day warranty or a 30-day warranty, for instance.

It wasn't until later that I recalled that Blu offered a one year warranty. Having read enough information on ECF about atomizer life, I thought my recollection must be wrong. No one can warrant an atomizer for a year, can they?

Well, Blu does, and I have no idea how they can claim theirs work that long. I verified with their online chat that they do, indeed, cover not only the atomizer but also the battery for a full year. I'd love to hear if anyone ever had an atomizer that made it that long with even moderate use (1 ml or less per day).

I just ordered six atomizers today for my 510. I figure it's a cost of enjoying it. When I see how some people switched from 2-pack-a-day analog habits to e-cigs, I'm surprised anyone would even flinch at buying an atomizer every couple weeks. Heck, I know I never thought twice about shelling out $6 for a pack of analogs, and there are plenty of people paying more than twice that each day for the privilege of loading their lungs with tar and chemicals!

Wow....what was I thinking..... (I'm officially the millionth person to say that).

 

[b00gym4n]

I first heard of e-cigs when I saw a banner ad for Blu e-cigs on a web site. Before making a purchase, I looked for online reviews and information, and that's how I found ECF. I ended up getting a Joye 510 based on advice from forum users, but when shopping for the 510 I looked at the warranty information on various sites. A couple of them were rather blunt in saying they offered, say, a 7-day warranty or a 30-day warranty, for instance.

It wasn't until later that I recalled that Blu offered a one year warranty. Having read enough information on ECF about atomizer life, I thought my recollection must be wrong. No one can warrant an atomizer for a year, can they?

Well, Blu does, and I have no idea how they can claim theirs work that long. I verified with their online chat that they do, indeed, cover not only the atomizer but also the battery for a full year. I'd love to hear if anyone ever had an atomizer that made it that long with even moderate use (1 ml or less per day).

I just ordered six atomizers today for my 510. I figure it's a cost of enjoying it. When I see how some people switched from 2-pack-a-day analog habits to e-cigs, I'm surprised anyone would even flinch at buying an atomizer every couple weeks. Heck, I know I never thought twice about shelling out $6 for a pack of analogs, and there are plenty of people paying more than twice that each day for the privilege of loading their lungs with tar and chemicals!

Wow....what was I thinking..... (I'm officially the millionth person to say that).

My Joye 510 came with a 6 month warranty. I've already sent back parts for about 2 bucks in shipping and is receiving the replacements in my next order, which I have already placed. They only warranty it cause they know it's going to fail. I've talked to manufacturers and they told me atomizers and batt life only last on avg about 3-6 weeks. I guess the warranties are out of good will.

 

[thewomenfolk]

Thanks to everybody for your opinions, tips, and knowledge about how these attys work.

I bought my first e-cig with the clear intent and purpose of quitting smoking, and it worked. For me it is indeed the best alternative to smoking.

I have little doubt that the PV industry will improve all these PV's to the point where we'll have to invest in little more than batteries, an occasional atty and juice. Ohhhhh, soooo much cheaper and healthier than burning up packs of cigarettes and lungs.

 

[jerrydon10]

The warrantors are hoping that you won't bother to ship the dead ones back. I would imagine that most get tired of that and start ordering by the ten-pack.