Why do we lump Big Tobacco in with the ANTZ

[p.opus]

I agree with what everyone else has said.

Big Tobacco made a mistake under estimating the effectiveness of e-cigs. Now that they are officially "in the ring". Things are looking worse.

They are not interested in a vaping enviroment where I can choose my own battery, my own clearomizer, and my own juice.

They are interested in proprietary systems using either disposable batteries, or rechargeable batteries with proprietary cartomizer systems which can NOT be refilled.

I would even imagne them coming out with some proprietary "gel" compound that would be very difficult for people to recreate.

Once the proprietary systems are in place, they will put more and more additives in the e-juice so that they are more addictive.

Big Tobacco has already written letters to members of the government urging tighter regulations on e-cigs. They have the money to comply with whatever regulations the FDA "comes up with". They will corner the market and e-cigs will then become MORE expensive than the real thing. vaping will become a luxury for the rich and will be priced accordingly.

Remember Big Tobacco wants us to still be addicted to Tobacco. As soon as the competition is done, we soon will not be able to afford e-cigs.

With the competition gone, e-cigs being a status symbol. Hollywood will embrace it because vaping will become trendy and exclusive. The rest of us will be left to smoke plant material and die.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to start learning to DIY my own zero nic juice, rebuild my heads, and buy a mod that uses commonly available batteries. Even though my MVP is in the mail...I'm thinking of getting a Provari for Christmas. It will last a life time and uses batteries that are readily available and used for things other than e-cigs....

God I sound like a doomsday prepper.....

 

[riseabovethestorm]

^^ That.

What we use for mod batteries have actually been in existence for years for use in flashlights, correct?

 

[Diogenes]

The 3 largest sellers of tobacco in the U.S. Are owned by large pharma.

Please make no mistakes. Big tobacco, big pharma and anti-tobacco people share the same money and agenda.
I am as against them as I am against the FDA.

Which three are owned by large pharma? Phillip Morris is owned by Altria, which owns UST smokeless tobacco, Ste. Michelle Wine Estates which makes wine, John Middleton Co. which makes cigars, and at one point owned part of Kraft foods. RJ Reynolds owns RJ Reynolds Tobacco Co. (of course), American Snuff Company (formerly Conwood Company), Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company and also owns, but is not owned by Niconovum AB, a nicotine replacement which is used in Sweden. And finally, Lorillard Tobacco Company is owned by Loews Corp, which owns commercial property and casualty insurance, the operation of offshore oil and gas drilling rigs, the operation of an interstate natural gas transmission pipeline system, the exploration, production and marketing of natural gas, natural gas liquid (NGLs), and the operation of luxury hotels and resorts.

 

[Diogenes]

I agree with what everyone else has said.

Big Tobacco made a mistake under estimating the effectiveness of e-cigs. Now that they are officially "in the ring". Things are looking worse.

They are not interested in a vaping enviroment where I can choose my own battery, my own clearomizer, and my own juice.

They are interested in proprietary systems using either disposable batteries, or rechargeable batteries with proprietary cartomizer systems which can NOT be refilled.

I would even imagne them coming out with some proprietary "gel" compound that would be very difficult for people to recreate.

Once the proprietary systems are in place, they will put more and more additives in the e-juice so that they are more addictive.

Big Tobacco has already written letters to members of the government urging tighter regulations on e-cigs. They have the money to comply with whatever regulations the FDA "comes up with". They will corner the market and e-cigs will then become MORE expensive than the real thing. Vaping will become a luxury for the rich and will be priced accordingly.

Remember Big Tobacco wants us to still be addicted to Tobacco. As soon as the competition is done, we soon will not be able to afford e-cigs.

With the competition gone, e-cigs being a status symbol. Hollywood will embrace it because vaping will become trendy and exclusive. The rest of us will be left to smoke plant material and die.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to start learning to DIY my own zero nic juice, rebuild my heads, and buy a mod that uses commonly available batteries. Even though my MVP is in the mail...I'm thinking of getting a Provari for Christmas. It will last a life time and uses batteries that are readily available and used for things other than e-cigs....

God I sound like a doomsday prepper.....

I don't think they necessarily underestimated ecigs and their effectiveness, I think with smoking getting more costly because of taxes, BT is trying to hitch on for a ride on the vape-train. Chicago's taxes are the highest, at $7.17 per pack, tax alone. New York? $6.86 The cheapest is Missouri, where the cigarette tax is only $0.17 per pack. And for vaping, the only tax that I can think of is sales tax.

I can see BT also going with proprietary stuff, almost every manufacturer has done something like that. Most cell phones started out having their own unique, (read pain in the a..), charger. It's only within a few years that they have gone to a more universal power port. Except for Apple, those goofy mothers. But when I hear people say that they are going to push for such tough regulations, I'm skeptical, honestly. I remember when people said Obama was going to make it very tough for us to buy and own guns. Never happened.

 

[stevegmu]

While looking for something from another thread, I came across this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...acco-admits-defeat-will-develop-e-cigarettes/

Why do many lump Big Tobacco in with Big Pharma and the ANTZ? While it doesn't look like BT is getting in the business of making mods, they are starting to develop ecigs. So why do we bash BT when they are starting to bring vaping to people that maybe wouldn't try it?

Everyone needs a boogeyman.

 

[Ken_A]

Which three are owned by large pharma? Phillip Morris is owned by Altria, which owns UST smokeless tobacco, Ste. Michelle Wine Estates which makes wine, John Middleton Co. which makes cigars, and at one point owned part of Kraft foods. RJ Reynolds owns RJ Reynolds Tobacco Co. (of course), American Snuff Company (formerly Conwood Company), Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company and also owns, but is not owned by Niconovum AB, a nicotine replacement which is used in Sweden. And finally, Lorillard Tobacco Company is owned by Loews Corp, which owns commercial property and casualty insurance, the operation of offshore oil and gas drilling rigs, the operation of an interstate natural gas transmission pipeline system, the exploration, production and marketing of natural gas, natural gas liquid (NGLs), and the operation of luxury hotels and resorts.

You should really do your research.
I've posted this before using a different list, but this is fairly good too.

http:// www. revenue.nebraska.g ov/cig/cig_alpha.html

Just remove the spaces in the broken link

 

[Diogenes]

You should really do your research.
I've posted this before using a different list, but this is fairly good too.

http:// www. revenue.nebraska.g ov/cig/cig_alpha.html

Just remove the spaces in the broken link

Umm, ok. What am I looking for now?

 

[Diogenes]

Still looking to find a link between BP and BT. Not seeing it. This is what I've found so far, for the larger companies mind you :


Loews' Non-Tobacco Companies:

Loews Hotels (100% owned) - Including the House of Blues Hotel (Chicago) and the Hard Rock Hotel (Orlando)
CNA Insurance and Financial (85% owned)
Diamond Offshore Drilling, Inc. (52% owned) - Operator of offshore oil drilling rigs
Bulova Corporation (97% owned) - A watch and clock maker


Philip Morris' Non-Tobacco Companies and Brands:

Miller Brewing Brands: Miller Geniune Draft, Miller Lite, Miller High Life, Lowenbrau, Red Dog, Leinenkugel’s, Icehouse, Milwaukee’s Best, Meister Brau, Sharps, Magnum, Celis, Shipyard, Olde English 800, Hamm’s, Mickey’s and Henry Weinhart’s. Miller has a majority interest in Molson USA, LLC, who imports Asahi, Presidente, Molson, and Foster’s into the US market

Kraft Foods Brands: Miracle Whip, Good Seasons, Jell-O, Sure Jell, Certo, , Kool-Aid, Seven Seas, Country Time, Taco Bell Home Originals, Baker’s Baking Products, Maxwell House Coffee, Sanka, Yuban Coffee, General Foods International Coffee, Cool Whip, Dream Whip, Athenos Cheese, Cheez Whiz, Cracker Barrel, Velveeta, Claussen Pickles, Philadelphia Cream Cheese, DiGiorno Italian Sauces and Pizzas, Calument Baking Powder, Minute Rice, Shake ‘N Bake, Oven Fry, Altoids, Toblerone Chocolate, Stove Top Stuffing, Capri Juice Drinks, Crystal Light, Tang, Bull’s Eye Barbecue Sauce, Knudsen, Sealtest, Breakstone’s, Light N’ Lively, Breyers, Jack’s Pizza, Tombstone Pizza

Post Cereals: (Alpha-Bits, Grape Nuts, Raisin Brands, Banana Nut Chrunch, COPYRIGHTDMCA, Toasties, Oreo’s, etc.)
Oscar Meyer Products
Louis Rich Products

Notes:
Philip Morris is the largest tobacco company in the world. Philip Morris also owns a financial subsidiary Philip Morris Capital Corporation.
Kraft also distributes and sells Starbucks coffee and California Pizza Kitchen products.

I realize that maybe some of the info is out of date, but I haven't been able to find anything, anything, regarding BT and BP together, outside of one drug/medical company making filters for another company who sold it to a tobacco company.

 

[skoony]

You should really do your research.
I've posted this before using a different list, but this is fairly good too.

http:// www. revenue.nebraska.g ov/cig/cig_alpha.html

Just remove the spaces in the broken link

this link just shows which brand of cigarette is owned by what company.
it does not list what companies own the companies making the cigarette.

regards
mike

 

[AgentAnia]

I don't know if I buy those arguments though, saying that BT will have something to fall back on if ecigs don't work out for them. The smoking trend is going down, so they're losing money to people quitting, no matter how they are doing it.

Tobacco and Smoking | Gallup Historical Trends

Many people argue that the smoking trend is going down precisely because smokers are switching to ecigs. So in the worst case scenario where BT gains a monopoly of the ecig market, BT balances its revenue from tobacco with its revenue from ecigs. (Of course there's not a one-to-one correlation, but probably pretty close to.) If ecig users switch back to tobacco, and BT is the only one producing both ecigs and tobacco, their revenue stays roughly equal. (We are assuming that the 18-20% of population who smoke (the hard core, whose numbers have not significantly changed for several years) will stay roughly the same.)

ETA: Plus the obvious fact that BT corporations are more heavily capitalized than small ecig manufacturers, so the former can carry over losses w/o going under, while most of the latter can't.

 

[AgentAnia]

not to sound stupid but what is ANTZ

Anti Nicotine and Tobacco Zealots

 

[Nightcall]

I was never forced to buy cigarettes from Big Tobacco. The U.S government forces me to do many things not in my interests.

 

[Ken_A]

Yeah... I'm going to agree to diagree with the cozy and fuzzy crowd and just keep stating:
Big pharma is bad
Big tobacco is bad
FDA is bad
ANTZ are misguided and mis-led, therefore... bad.
No more posts for me in this thread.

 

[vapero]

As I see it there are various players in this war
1 big tobacco
2 big pharma
3 ANTZ
4 politics
5 us vapers, modders juice vendors

big tobacco is making allies with politicians so they don't lose revenue with us (group 5)
big pharma is making allies with politicians (yes they don't have morals and can ally with two different enemies) and ANTS for the same reason as big tobacco does

ANTZ are fighting big tobacco but mostly us as they are allied with big pharma to fund

we have to defend ourselves from everyone and that's why we classify everyone as the same (our enemies)

 

[Diogenes]

Yeah... I'm going to agree to diagree with the cozy and fuzzy crowd and just keep stating:
Big pharma is bad
Big tobacco is bad
FDA is bad
ANTZ are misguided and mis-led, therefore... bad.
No more posts for me in this thread.

Ken, I'm sorry, but I just don't understand. You had said,

The 3 largest sellers of tobacco in the U.S. Are owned by large pharma.

I go and try to find which companies are owned by BP, and can't find it. Do you maybe mean the sellers, like Walgreens, CVS, various gas stations, and 7-11? I listed the holdings companies that own the 3 major players in BT, listed what their non-tobacco interests were, I figured I didn't need to list which cigarettes each made, like Newport or Marlboro. Please, if you have some proof that shows that BT is owned by BP, I'd love to see it.

 

[riseabovethestorm]

The 3 largest sellers of tobacco in the U.S. Are owned by large pharma.

Here, this is for you:

 

[Diogenes]

Here, this is for you:

Huh? Look, I'm only asking for something, anything that links BT with BP, mainly because I couldn't find it. If I'm wrong, and there is a link, I'll be the first to admit that I WAS WRONG.

 

[riseabovethestorm]

Huh? Look, I'm only asking for something, anything that links BT with BP, mainly because I couldn't find it. If I'm wrong, and there is a link, I'll be the first to admit that I WAS WRONG.

I was implying that making a claim like that requires the burden of proof.

I'm just being a smartass.

 

[Diogenes]

I was implying that making a claim like that requires the burden of proof.

I'm just being a smartass.

Sorry, I'm just a little slow tonight......

 

[riseabovethestorm]

Sorry, I'm just a little slow tonight......

Haha. It's all good.

In a nutshell: I was agreeing with you my quoting the original poster.