Why do we need to let TV age?

[budster]

I have heard so many mentions that TV (Tasty Vapor) juice needs time to do "something". TV has never suggested it that I have seen, yet, so many TV users suggest letting it age. Why is this? I know, its made fresh, on a per order basis, but what are we waiting for?

 

[tiempo]

Sometimes the flavors just need to settle in, mix a bit and mellow out. Most flavors that you order have been made a month or more before you receive them, so they have "settled" (for lack of a better term)

 

[Whistle_Pig]

I suspect it's similar to cooking, where there is the concept of flavors "marrying". In other words, they don't blend together right away. I've noticed this when I make a batch of chili. It's always better the 2nd and 3rd days.

 

[vleath]

He does mention it on his website. As well as the explanation.

http://www.tastyvapor.us/faq-i-15.html?TVid=87b8fe9a84ba8321a50f19b1152c65df

 

[cainne]

With all respect that isn't an explanation.
That's a "general idea with nonspecific phrasing."

Steeping is a specific process of soaking a solid in a liquid to release a soluble ingredient over time. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

I think what people are looking for, at least I know I am, is an exact explanation of what chemical process(es) is/are going on which is effected by time. IE: Oxidization of metals, steeping of solid tea leaves, etc.

 

[crand]

I know that someone will disagree but I personally have not found any fundamental change in flavor or vaping characteristics as my TV products age.

 

[CaptJay]

cainne - I like to think of it as the same process that happens to cheese or wine, as it ages the flavors tend to improve. This is simply an ongoing reaction of enzymes (in cheese, usually from fats and milk protiens) or sugars, acids, alcohols (and phenols in wine) over time. This reaction changes flavors from a 'fresh sharp' to a more mature 'rounded' taste.
As Ejuice contains some form of sugars (PG and VG) or sugar alcohols, and TV uses Ethyl Maltol (sugar compound) these would react in a similar way to the way wine does over time. If you're interested in the science then Id suggest looking at wine ageing processes; its not exactly the same but the sugars and alcohols (and I dont mean its full of alcohol, like vodka, its a more generic term in science) would make it 'similar'. The addition of oxygen to the 'mix' (ie opening a bottle) can also change the flavor due to oxidisation of certain chemicals (in foods this usually affects smell, which in turn would affect taste). Oxygen can also bind to phenols (in wines) making the polymerisation of compounds larger and softer (in taste).
Most cooks don't know - or need to know - the exact science behind why their food tastes the way it does - I presume its the same with makers of anything else. You know by experience.
Using wine as our example then its also safe to assume that SOME liquids (not TV per se, but in general) like SOME wines, would taste LESS good over time - white wine for example, in general, does not benefit from ageing the way red wine does - it gets 'sharper' or 'stale' over time. You'd need to know the exact chemistry of each eliquid to predict its outcome over time, and even then, you might be wrong

I do know from my own experience that many juices, not just TV's, can improve with age, and some just 'go off' - perhaps those ones are not mixed fresh or have been stored at too high or too low a temperature; its imposssible to know for sure. I have found that in the case of TV - the juice seems to mellow out over time, becoming less sharp and more rounded, in a similar way to my 'wine example'. Some flavors seem to change little, some a lot more - its not something I really question tbh, I just go with it lol.

 

[cainne]

Jay-

Yes, I'm aware of the process in analogous items but that's exactly what those are; analogies.

I think that's part of the frustration some people feel when they ask this question because while cheese ages and wine does as well to say "it's like steeping" is a non sequitur because it is in NO WAY like steeping with the single exception that both are referencing a change in flavor. It's a non-answer. As well just say "because it does."

As there are sugars and alcohols, and yes I understand the chemical composition of such, I could understand some ongoing enzyme reaction however what I am not familiar with are the properties of VG, PG, and other less commonly encountered products that may be reactive as well.

It's commonly understood that juices go bad over time, especially when not stored in a cool, dry area, so we know there's a start time and an effective end time for optimal taste but where is the average peak? What happens when you've stored a juice for too long? Does it merely taste different, likely worse obviously, or can it break down to a point where it's possibly harmful much as, to use analogies as others have, food can spoil.

IE: Will vaping a juice that has "expired" so to speak merely be distasteful or harmful? That's more why I was asking if anybody knew the chemistry of what was occuring because logically if there are ongoing chemical changes over time these could extend past making the liquid unpalatable up to making it unsafe.

I'm not implying that this is in fact the case. Simply stating it is one possible outcome of an unknown process. Hence questioning the details of said process. Common sense of course says "if you're unsure, throw it away" however I've never known a situation yet, aside from interpersonal relationships in limited cases, where knowing more is a bad thing

 

[guava]

Cainne, maybe you could make your own DIY flavors and see if they taste better or the same right after you make them versus after letting them sit for a week or so?

If you are seeking opinions from professional chemists, maybe you could find a chemist forum to ask this question and report back?

I don't know why most TV flavors taste better after sitting a bit, I just know most of them do. Not all, though, some are excellent right out of the starting gate.

 

[coolone1]

I don't get it either. When you order liquid it should be ready to vape. If not let TV age it before selling it. When you buy some Crown Black they do not say to let it age before drinking it. I have had TV's tobacco and no matter how long it sits the flavor does not change. Taste is subjective but it was still was not good after sitting. I threw it away and I know some here think that TV is the best but not the tobacco at least to me.

 

[guava]

I don't get it either. When you order liquid it should be ready to vape. If not let TV age it before selling it. When you buy some Crown Black they do not say to let it age before drinking it. I have had TV's tobacco and no matter how long it sits the flavor does not change. Taste is subjective but it was still was not good after sitting. I threw it away and I know some here think that TV is the best but not the tobacco at least to me.

TV flavors their juice at the time it is ordered. They could let it age, and then ship it to customers a week or two AFTER the order so you have to wait a week or two for shipment I suppose, but that would be silly since we are all grown-ups (presumably). Why not just let it sit for a bit, and if that concept bothers you, then by all means order "made for whoever" juice that's been sitting for a long time from a different vendor.

 

[cainne]

Agreed. Don't misunderstand, I like TV. I like most of their flavors, have only had one out of about 10 that was mediocre.
My point was simply WHAT specifically is the process that goes on internally as their, and I'm sure most, juices age.

It wasn't an attack in the slightest. As for "ask a chemist and report back" well I don't see it as negative to ask a comment on here. That's what forums are for. Perhaps a chemist will see this thread and have a helpful intelligent comment

Again, more knowledge never hurt anyone.

 

[Whistle_Pig]

<SNIP>
then by all means order "made for whoever" juice that's been sitting for a long time from a different vendor.

You're painting with a fairly broad brush there, guava. I don't grok the scare quotes either. If I order juice X, it's juice X, whether it was "made for Joe" or for me. Several vendors will do custom blends.

 

[smokin n jokin]

I let the post office age my TV juices for me. They leave a notice that they tried to deliver it. I let it sit in their air conditioned sorting room for ten days and then tell them to deliver it again.

 

[guava]

You're painting with a fairly broad brush there, guava. I don't grok the scare quotes either. If I order juice X, it's juice X, whether it was "made for Joe" or for me. Several vendors will do custom blends.

Not sure why you took umbrage with a known fact...most juices are made in advance of the order, and that means they do not know who will order that particular liquid (so the liquid is indeed made for whatever random person who later orders it)...unless they have psychic abilities that haven't been disclosed in this discussion, LOL.

 

[mwa102464]

I believe it takes time for the flavoring to break into all the different molecules put into the mix depending on the mix, just my 2cents but I’m not a chemist at all

 

[cainne]

I believe it takes time for the flavoring to break into all the different molecules put into the mix depending on the mix, just my 2cents but I’m not a chemist at all

Errrm... no. Doubtful.

 

[mendnwngs]

Why not?

Diffusion is a well understood process, and can take considerable time, especially in viscous fluids.

Especially trying to diffuse emulsified liquids.

-Jason

 

[mwa102464]

ok there Jason thank you, simple but real

 

[CaptJay]

I dont think the find a chemist comment was intended to be facetious or rude - I think it was more like 'we aren't chemists and probably can't explain the full chemical process, so to learn that a REAL chemist would be recommended'. There did used to be some chemists lurking around on the boards but I haven't seen one in a while, and its a vaping forum and most of us worry more over taste than process, speaking personally at least