- Status
Sigh.
Sorry I couldn't type it out to appear in the middle of your post so as to meet whatever time period you were giving me that would have preceded the "Oh none?" comment.
Unless you weren't expecting me to be able to hack into your post while you were writing it to interject my answer but were merely attempting to psychically predict that I had no response in which case I guess it's still:
Proof of psychic ability in humans, 0.
Disproof of same, total number of attempted proofs.
Because "Flavorings" are other "molecules" or chains of them. Alcohols, sugars, etc. You can have chemical reactions, especially with enzymes boosting the reaction rates that change the chemical composition and thus taste, or fermentation if there are sugars or many other processes but "flavorings" don't mix INTO molecules.
And emulsified fluids tend to separate over time, not mix further, like oil and water, or oil and vinegar in salad dressing. That being the case it should get progressively worse over time because it should either layer or coalesce into droplets of one or many different emulsified liquids. Like gelatin in tapioca pudding (at least I assume it's a form of gelatin, I'm not sure what the beads are.)
If anything I'd suspect an oxidization process. I'd doubt it's a form of fermentation as in wine or beer since as best as I'm aware that only takes place in anaerobic (oxygen-absent) environments.
Regardless this is obviously getting off track so I'll desist posting in this thread. Acrimony isn't going to constructively help anyone.
Sorry I couldn't type it out to appear in the middle of your post so as to meet whatever time period you were giving me that would have preceded the "Oh none?" comment.
Unless you weren't expecting me to be able to hack into your post while you were writing it to interject my answer but were merely attempting to psychically predict that I had no response in which case I guess it's still:
Proof of psychic ability in humans, 0.
Disproof of same, total number of attempted proofs.
Because "Flavorings" are other "molecules" or chains of them. Alcohols, sugars, etc. You can have chemical reactions, especially with enzymes boosting the reaction rates that change the chemical composition and thus taste, or fermentation if there are sugars or many other processes but "flavorings" don't mix INTO molecules.
And emulsified fluids tend to separate over time, not mix further, like oil and water, or oil and vinegar in salad dressing. That being the case it should get progressively worse over time because it should either layer or coalesce into droplets of one or many different emulsified liquids. Like gelatin in tapioca pudding (at least I assume it's a form of gelatin, I'm not sure what the beads are.)
If anything I'd suspect an oxidization process. I'd doubt it's a form of fermentation as in wine or beer since as best as I'm aware that only takes place in anaerobic (oxygen-absent) environments.
Regardless this is obviously getting off track so I'll desist posting in this thread. Acrimony isn't going to constructively help anyone.
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Sweet! a wordsmith!
Well, with great alacrity, i must respond in kind, utilizing the pedantic nomenclature heretoforth set out as the standard lexicon, lest I am seen as an intellectual troglodyte under the scrutiny of such an (obviously) overdeveloped grasp of the English language.
It is with all humility that I am forced to render a judgment of shenanegans.
I am no chemist, and by your own admissions, you're none of the like, yourself.
The anecdotal proof found by this, and many other threads is that certain TV flavors fare better after some time. Perhaps it is an oxidation process, I doubt its fermentation as PG is itself an antimicrobial. (BTW, Fermentation takes place in both aerobic, and anaerobic states, during the first 24-36 hours I actually aerate the wort, as the added oxygen is required by the yeast to increase the rate of cellular mitosis, alas, I digress)
Im, personally a firm believer in Occams razor, and as such, simple diffusion, as the liquid materials in the bottle reach homogeneous equilibrium, as being the simplest of the proposed theories, is most likely to be correct.
I hope this refines my position to a sufficient level as to make sense?
So, In summation;
Yeah, I think it takes time to fully diffuse, prolly because its so thick.
-Jason
Well, with great alacrity, i must respond in kind, utilizing the pedantic nomenclature heretoforth set out as the standard lexicon, lest I am seen as an intellectual troglodyte under the scrutiny of such an (obviously) overdeveloped grasp of the English language.
It is with all humility that I am forced to render a judgment of shenanegans.
I am no chemist, and by your own admissions, you're none of the like, yourself.
The anecdotal proof found by this, and many other threads is that certain TV flavors fare better after some time. Perhaps it is an oxidation process, I doubt its fermentation as PG is itself an antimicrobial. (BTW, Fermentation takes place in both aerobic, and anaerobic states, during the first 24-36 hours I actually aerate the wort, as the added oxygen is required by the yeast to increase the rate of cellular mitosis, alas, I digress)
Im, personally a firm believer in Occams razor, and as such, simple diffusion, as the liquid materials in the bottle reach homogeneous equilibrium, as being the simplest of the proposed theories, is most likely to be correct.
I hope this refines my position to a sufficient level as to make sense?
So, In summation;
Yeah, I think it takes time to fully diffuse, prolly because its so thick.
-Jason
There should be no chemical changes to the liquids, but the liquids are a combination of solutions and mixtures. Most flavorings comprise 5 to 15% of a given liquid. The flavorings themselves are generally produced in a PG base. The actual flavor chemicals are a very small part of the mixture. Even normal mixing with thick liquids may not fully disperse the flavor completely to every drop of the liquid. Keep in mind that a single puff is only comprised of a minuscule amount of e-liquid. To have full flavor in every single drop means the mixing must to complete. Letting the mixture sit will in fact allow it to mix. Manual high sped mixing would help but still may not get the flavor into every single drop of liquid.
To see this effect drip some food color into some thick VG some time and see how long it takes you to get it mixed. (do not vape anything with colorings in it)
To see this effect drip some food color into some thick VG some time and see how long it takes you to get it mixed. (do not vape anything with colorings in it)
So is a week enough? Is a month to long? We are not talking a wine or a brandy. We are talking PG or VG and some essential oils for flavor (Presumably) as an adult you can understand this. Sorry that some of us do not have such a refined taste as others. I have had many liquids from many vendors. Some put more flavors than others. To get what you like you have to determine how much flavor you want in it and specify when ordering. This is what you call a custom blend. Taste is subjective so no liquid will be the same to every one and I still don't buy in to the thinking of oh gee I have this juice that tastes like throw up but if I let sit it will get better. After two weeks it only tastes like two week old throw up. I know not very Adult of me.
Welcome to Tobacco Technology, Inc.
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coolone1
there are a *lot* of things at work as far as aging liquids. Some of it is actually aging the liquid, some of it is aging the ex-smoker!
Yeah, a vomitous flavored liquid probably wont taste any better after a week, but *perception* of said flavor may change a lot in that week if you've just quit smoking regular cigarettes.
In the case of TV flavors, most, if not all (as I have read) are good to great to begin with. I know my bottle of Atomic Cinnacide was really good when I got it.
But...
After time, say a week or so, I noticed a lot more subtle flavors developing in my bottle of AC. Some sweet woody, and even floral notes.
Now, whether thats because *my* tastes have developed, or if the flavor of the juice has changed, I couldnt tell you.
I just know that, for instance with good red wines, decanting it into another bottle (to aerate the liquid) then letting it 'age' (the wine geeks call it "opening up") for a half an hour or so seriously changes the flavor, and makes for a lot of complexity you wouldn't get by drinking it from the bottle.
This is anecdotal, but well observed. Be it placebo, or real, who knows.. If it tastes better, IT FRIGGIN TASTES BETTER! Hehe.
But yes, you're right. aging more than likely wont turn a frog of a flavor into a prince.
-Jason
there are a *lot* of things at work as far as aging liquids. Some of it is actually aging the liquid, some of it is aging the ex-smoker!
Yeah, a vomitous flavored liquid probably wont taste any better after a week, but *perception* of said flavor may change a lot in that week if you've just quit smoking regular cigarettes.
In the case of TV flavors, most, if not all (as I have read) are good to great to begin with. I know my bottle of Atomic Cinnacide was really good when I got it.
But...
After time, say a week or so, I noticed a lot more subtle flavors developing in my bottle of AC. Some sweet woody, and even floral notes.
Now, whether thats because *my* tastes have developed, or if the flavor of the juice has changed, I couldnt tell you.
I just know that, for instance with good red wines, decanting it into another bottle (to aerate the liquid) then letting it 'age' (the wine geeks call it "opening up") for a half an hour or so seriously changes the flavor, and makes for a lot of complexity you wouldn't get by drinking it from the bottle.
This is anecdotal, but well observed. Be it placebo, or real, who knows.. If it tastes better, IT FRIGGIN TASTES BETTER! Hehe.
But yes, you're right. aging more than likely wont turn a frog of a flavor into a prince.
-Jason
I've never really noticed a signifigant change after letting his juices age. Only with the tastyfinger. In my personal opinion, its like when you try a juice and your like.."oh okay that's good"...and then a few days later you realize you really enjoy and appreciate it more so than when you first tried it. Maybe that's how this whole aging thing came into play. When I first started using TV the whole aging theory wasn't even around yet. I'm a firm believer that tastes are subjective, they change over time, and often sometimes learn to really appreciate a certain flavor. While I liked tasty finger from the get go, a few days later I really enjoyed it more. Perhaps this is where the whole "let it age" assumption came from. Or perhaps it really does age and improve with time
. That's just my highly unscientific view point on this matter. Either way his juices are impressive & creative.
. That's just my highly unscientific view point on this matter. Either way his juices are impressive & creative.
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Of course need to add my two cents.....First I don't really know for sure if the juice sits, it gets better....But, I do know that when I forget to shake my bottle of juice before using it,,,,it is not the same as when I do shake the bottle....Especially some of my bigger bottles that I use a lot like Karmel or RY4....Just me....Enjoy...
I should add this isn't soley TV juices, the HALO liquid I have underwent a similar 'change' over time ditto a MS Ts one.
And yes I always shake the bottles before i drip; every time.
And yes I always shake the bottles before i drip; every time.
I personally do a few things which I believe does enhance the flavors of all of my juices. To each his own. However, I also believe it depends a lot on yourself, what you've just eaten or drank, time of day, mood, etc.
For example, I have added and become a fan of double mint of late with my other 2-3 basic juices. However, I really don't care for it except in the evenings and then mixed with some butterscotch. This is after I've had supper and am settling in to relax before going to bed. Mixing the double mint with butterscotch seems to give me a pleasant sweet and refreshing taste which I really enjoy. Again though, only in the evenings. I've tried this combination at other times during the day and don't enjoy it as much for some reason.
Another 2 cents...
For example, I have added and become a fan of double mint of late with my other 2-3 basic juices. However, I really don't care for it except in the evenings and then mixed with some butterscotch. This is after I've had supper and am settling in to relax before going to bed. Mixing the double mint with butterscotch seems to give me a pleasant sweet and refreshing taste which I really enjoy. Again though, only in the evenings. I've tried this combination at other times during the day and don't enjoy it as much for some reason.
Another 2 cents...
I have heard so many mentions that TV (Tasty Vapor) juice needs time to do "something". TV has never suggested it that I have seen, yet, so many TV users suggest letting it age. Why is this? I know, its made fresh, on a per order basis, but what are we waiting for?[/QUOTE
As Emirl Lagasse says when he is cooking, you have to let the stuff get Happy.
Guess that is what TV juices are doing.
Why Do The People On Your ECF Forum Suggest I Let My Liquids Sit For A Week Before I Use Them?
Quote from TV Website:
"Tasty Vapor mixes every single liquid fresh, from scratch. So, unlike the stuff you may get from another vendor which has likely had time to sit on a shelf for a while, ours hasn't had any time for the flavors to "steep". Some flavors are great and ready to go and get even better, there are flavors, more particularly any "creamy" flavor, may take a good week to steep for you to taste the full depth of the liquid". This is a direct quote from Geoff on TV's site:
Hence the word "steep" everyone, & the meaning of "steep" 1. Immerse in liquid: transitive and intransitive verb to soak something in a liquid, or be soaked in a liquid, especially for cleaning or softening or in order to extract something: 2. permeate somebody or something,,transitive verb to permeate somebody or something with a substance or quality, usually over a long period.
I think this clearly states that some different flavorings take time to marry together and make it taste better as other flavoring is ready to go right way. So some of the e-liquids in the process of making are ready to go as soon as they are made, others can and will get better as they sit for a while and the flavors and chemicals all marry together "steep" this cant be explained any better in my honest opinion, everyone can get as technical as they want, however unless you take it one mix at a time and use all the chemicals and flavorings in each mix you wont have a better answer unless you go ahead and take it one mix at a time flavor by flavor and with every different eliquid being not the same this is the best way to look at this process. If someone has some more input on this or a better answer please chime in if its an intelligent one.
Quote from TV Website:
"Tasty Vapor mixes every single liquid fresh, from scratch. So, unlike the stuff you may get from another vendor which has likely had time to sit on a shelf for a while, ours hasn't had any time for the flavors to "steep". Some flavors are great and ready to go and get even better, there are flavors, more particularly any "creamy" flavor, may take a good week to steep for you to taste the full depth of the liquid". This is a direct quote from Geoff on TV's site:
Hence the word "steep" everyone, & the meaning of "steep" 1. Immerse in liquid: transitive and intransitive verb to soak something in a liquid, or be soaked in a liquid, especially for cleaning or softening or in order to extract something: 2. permeate somebody or something,,transitive verb to permeate somebody or something with a substance or quality, usually over a long period.
I think this clearly states that some different flavorings take time to marry together and make it taste better as other flavoring is ready to go right way. So some of the e-liquids in the process of making are ready to go as soon as they are made, others can and will get better as they sit for a while and the flavors and chemicals all marry together "steep" this cant be explained any better in my honest opinion, everyone can get as technical as they want, however unless you take it one mix at a time and use all the chemicals and flavorings in each mix you wont have a better answer unless you go ahead and take it one mix at a time flavor by flavor and with every different eliquid being not the same this is the best way to look at this process. If someone has some more input on this or a better answer please chime in if its an intelligent one.
But you don't buy liquids with any solids still in there do you?
I dont see how letting it sit is "soaking something in a liquid". The extraction process is already done when you receive the juice. Whether it's diffusion (which is definitely Occam's choice), some chemical reaction or a placebo - I have no idea. I've only vaped dekang so I haven't experienced this personally
I dont see how letting it sit is "soaking something in a liquid". The extraction process is already done when you receive the juice. Whether it's diffusion (which is definitely Occam's choice), some chemical reaction or a placebo - I have no idea. I've only vaped dekang so I haven't experienced this personally
I would agree with it in the past to let it sit and age.
but currently with tv juices i suggest using it within first week or it may lose its flavoring.
such as my ac & tf which is basically garbage now. both within 1-2months old.
properly stored. cool dark place & little to no air except for opening bottles.
Im moving towards mstsbakery more then tv for quality. Atleast i know it will taste properly. even after a month sitting.
but currently with tv juices i suggest using it within first week or it may lose its flavoring.
such as my ac & tf which is basically garbage now. both within 1-2months old.
properly stored. cool dark place & little to no air except for opening bottles.
Im moving towards mstsbakery more then tv for quality. Atleast i know it will taste properly. even after a month sitting.
Steeping is soaking something in a fluid to extract an element that is soluble to that liquid, usually water.
IE: it's a process to move an element of a solid object INTO the liquid solution.
You steep tea leaves to extract the water soluble elements from the solid leaf. That is not the case with something like eliquid. That may be how you get an ingredient out; like steeping tobacco leaves to get the tobacco flavor out of them, but once the tobacco leaves are removed and the fluid is then mixed with others you're no longer steeping it.
"Steeping" as used in that quote is merely metaphorical.
IE: it's a process to move an element of a solid object INTO the liquid solution.
You steep tea leaves to extract the water soluble elements from the solid leaf. That is not the case with something like eliquid. That may be how you get an ingredient out; like steeping tobacco leaves to get the tobacco flavor out of them, but once the tobacco leaves are removed and the fluid is then mixed with others you're no longer steeping it.
"Steeping" as used in that quote is merely metaphorical.
Agreed. "Steeping" as used in the description on TVs site was used to convey a concept, not to define the actual process..
It might be interesting to try, side-by-side a month old bottle of AC, and a freshly prepared one, to see if its actually the flavor changing over time, or the vapers tastes evolving over time.
(But it would be nice to have access to an LCMS to analyze chemical changes over time Ahh, it is to dream.. Heh)
I do know that vaping AC at 5V is like getting kicked in the mouth with a cinnamon boot. (Just tried it tonight, and man, oh man, the volume just went to 11)
-Jason
It might be interesting to try, side-by-side a month old bottle of AC, and a freshly prepared one, to see if its actually the flavor changing over time, or the vapers tastes evolving over time.
(But it would be nice to have access to an LCMS to analyze chemical changes over time
Ahh, it is to dream.. Heh)I do know that vaping AC at 5V is like getting kicked in the mouth with a cinnamon boot. (Just tried it tonight, and man, oh man, the volume just went to 11)
-Jason
Does anyone here know what Ethyl Maltol tastes and/or smells like?
Does TV use EM in the AC?
- Status
