Why does the FDA apeal case matter?

[progg]

And as with tobacco one could presume UPS and Fedex will follow suit.

 

[klamathkid]

No doubt, as UPS and FedEx had refused cigarette and tobacco shipping for quite some time before the PACT Act, only USPS was left.

As an FDA-designated tobacco product, I see outrageous taxes in the future, followed by imposition of the PACT Act to be sure those taxes are collected.

 

[DC2]

No doubt, as UPS and FedEx had refused cigarette and tobacco shipping for quite some time before the PACT Act, only USPS was left.

As an FDA-designated tobacco product, I see outrageous taxes in the future, followed by imposition of the PACT Act to be sure those taxes are collected.

Don't be so sure.

Tobacco products are basically supposed to be taxed in relation to the harm they are believed to cause.
And because of that, electronic cigarettes should be taxed at rates comparable to snuff and snus.

I assume these are the current Federal Excise Taxes...
TTB Tax and Fee Rate

[B]Tobacco Products          [/B][B]1000 units      [/B][B]Pack of 20[/B]
Small Cigarettes            $50.33          $1.01
Large Cigarettes           $105.69          $2.11
Small Cigars                $50.33          $1.01
 
[B]Tobacco Products              [/B][B]1 lb.       [/B][B]Tin or Pouch[/B]
Pipe Tobacco                 $2.8311        $0.1769
Chewing Tobacco              $0.5033        $0.0315
Snuff                        $1.51          $0.0944
Roll-your-own Tobacco       $24.78          $1.5488

It will be up to all of us to fight to make sure everyone is properly educated.

 

[Vapulicious]

Ditto on the fight being up to us. The real problem is BIG GOVERNMENT, and this Nanny State of elected officials and to many Bureaucrats who want to tell you what to eat what to drink, where and how to live. The first order of buisness is getting smaller and less intrusive governemnt, and that DOES'NT mean Socialists or those that believe freedom is "theirs" to divy out!

 

[Willriker]

You CAN use the patch as expensive small pieces of duct tape. You COULD put nicorette on a hook and use it for fish bait. These uses aren't the manufacturers stated purpose in creating the products (I'm assuming this ) and aren't the legal purpose of the items.

Not to nit pick, but there is a huge differance between using a nicotine patch as an expencive peice of duct tape and using a PV to vape 0mg nicotine juice. From what i have noticed on these forums, a not insignificant portion of people are enjoying 0mg liquids.

The question is not to what other possible uses the device can be put. It's what the device's legal purpose is.

What I mean is - Take horses. They aren't cattle, but for a lot of legal purposes (transport, insurance, whatever) they ARE cattle. In other words, there's the dictionary definition of cattle, and the legal definition (which is sometimes 4 legged animals over 100lbs or something like that).

The possible uses for the PV, its intended use, how the directions tell you to use it - none of these things matter as to the legal definition. Its legal definition is whatever the court decides it is. Should they decide it's an assault weapon, that's how it'll be regulated...

interesting.

Didnt the court system already decide the FDA's arguement was no good? I mean, my understanding is that the FDA is currently appealing the previous courts decision, no?

 

[sam12six]

Not to nit pick, but there is a huge differance between using a nicotine patch as an expencive peice of duct tape and using a PV to vape 0mg nicotine juice. From what i have noticed on these forums, a not insignificant portion of people are enjoying 0mg liquids.

I don't think you were nitpicking. My example WAS goofy (but the point I was illustrating still stands). The actual real-life use of a product makes no difference in terms of how the product is regulated.

interesting.

Didnt the court system already decide the FDA's arguement was no good? I mean, my understanding is that the FDA is currently appealing the previous courts decision, no?

You're right. The thing is, the very fact that there is an ongoing court case means the issue is in limbo. When the entire thing is settled legally, the court will have made an arbitrary decision on how to classify PVs (or IMO they'll smarten up and go after more drastic regulation of nicotine).

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From a certain perspective, the appeal case doesn't matter. There's nothing we really can do about it and will have to make our own decisions based on the fallout.

In the best case scenario, we're going to end up with stronger peace-of-mind rules (FDA standards) and skyrocketing prices for vaping, along with an alteration of how suppliers do business.

In the worst case scenario, we'll have pretty much the same thing.

So looking at it that way, it doesn't matter what happens. I interpreted your original question as "Why do you care what happens?", rather than "What difference will it make in your life which way the court leans in this particular case?"

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This is the very best time to be vaping. It's a fleshed-out market with a variety of products to suit a variety of tastes, but also demand and taxes haven't made the activity incredibly expensive.

It's like before Buffalo wings were a part of every casual dining menu: The wings were considered pretty much garbage. You could get a ton for next to nothing. If you were one of the relatively small group that had discovered how great the wings could be, you were in heaven having your awesome wings for a fraction of whatever everyone else was paying for their finger foods.

That's where we are as vapers right now. If the court decides PVs can be marketed as tobacco products, we'll see a huge growth in the quality, variety, and availability of them. The demand and additional taxes will also bring us a huge growth in the cost of vaping. IMO this is the best case.

On the other hand, if the court decides PVs will be marketed as drug delivery devices, we'll see a stagnation and standardization of the device (how many choices do you see in syringes?). Along with this, we'll see an even bigger growth in the cost of vaping as the permits and certifications required to produce PVs and juice will cause vendors to pass the costs to us. Also, the taxes are going to increase regardless. I consider a variation of this (the variation where the PV is considered a medical stop smoking device) the worst case.