Why does the FDA apeal case matter?

[Mclassy]

Pure Smoker ~ http://www.supersmokerjp.com/images/ToxicologylaboratoryTestResultsEnglishtranslatiion.pdf
Totally Wicked ~ Electronic Cigarette / Electronic Cigarette Company Scroll down to the red hyperlink that says here.
Johnson's Creek ~ FAQ and there is a certification report somewhere on their website.

 

[progg]

Pure Smoker ~ http://www.supersmokerjp.com/images/ToxicologylaboratoryTestResultsEnglishtranslatiion.pdf
Totally Wicked ~ Electronic Cigarette / Electronic Cigarette Company Scroll down to the red hyperlink that says here.
Johnson's Creek ~ FAQ and there is a certification report somewhere on their website.

Thank you for the info. I'll definitely look into it further.
I briefly looked at PS and TW. Their reports were from 2007 + 2008, don't know that's relevant for today or ongoing.
Wasn't able to find Johnson's Creek in my allotted time but will be on my to do list.
Will get back to you, and thanks for taking the time.

 

[WendyLS]

I read about the FDA thing before I even considered trying the e-cigs and I was already ....... Now I'm even more .......

Much like always, they don't care about actually making products "safe". Sort of like how they refuse to acknowledge the amazing benefits of natural medicine and supplements, while signing off on dangerous pharmaceutical drugs because whatever makes more money for the gov is what the FDA does.

They DO want to make e cigs unaffiliated with regular tobacco/cigarette laws and make them "drug delivery" devices as someone upthread previously mentioned and that causes SO many problems already mentioned here. It gives them a huge amount of legal wiggle room to regulate every bit and piece of e-cigs. Even the part and extras unrelated to safety and health. This will give them the freedom to make everything SO expensive for the companies to sell/produce legally that the many smaller, better companies won't be able to market them and the larger corporate fat-cat companies will be the few left to purchase any e cigs or products from. Since they'll corner the market and we'll only have a few choices of where to buy.....they have all the power to price them how they please and also make them as cheap and low quality as they can to make consumers need to purchase more and more federally regulated parts from 3 or 4 companies instead of the bazillions like you can now.

It's ludicrous.

Since caffeine is considered a "highly addictive drug" then why doesn't the FDA consider coffee makers "drug delivery devices"? Hell.....why don't these consider coffee MUGS "drug delivery devices" and get their panties in a bunch over those?

The answer is....because they don't give a crap about stuff they cannot make huge money off of regulating.

The big tobacco companies are mostly American and that's why they want to stick their noses in and regulate the e cigs. I'm sure the tobacco companies in the South are losing their minds and the government is losing their money over the loss of customers to electronic cigarettes and the people quitting analogs because of them.

The FDA is a bunch of slimebags and scammers. Boooo!

 

[mgmrick]

wendyls great post right on the mark. Fda gets there hands on this and 10ml of juice will cost 75 bucks. Have you ever noticed everytime cigarettes go up.... all the over counter stop quiting products go up too

 

[DC2]

OH MY GOD!!


Nuff said.

 

[Willriker]

It seems to me that PV's can be used for more than just e-juice. To not stray too far from the ecigarettes with some weird analogy for people to pick on... what about the guys who are down to 0 nicotine content with their liquid?

Seeing as PV's can, and are, used outside of being a nicotine delivery device... doesnt that mean that it is not souly used as a drug delivery system? So how could they regulate it?

 

[DC2]

The court "should" rule based on intent of the product, and zero nicotine is not the intent, even if some people do it.

 

[StormFinch]

Since as was mentioned they are stopping shipments of hardware only, I'm not sure if they haven't thought about it or simply don't care. Considering we're talking about an entity that wanted to burn cookbooks (yes, actual book burning) because said books talked about cooking with stevia back before it was allowed as a health supplement, I seriously doubt they care.

 

[progg]

Pure Smoker ~ http://www.supersmokerjp.com/images/ToxicologylaboratoryTestResultsEnglishtranslatiion.pdf
Totally Wicked ~ Electronic Cigarette / Electronic Cigarette Company Scroll down to the red hyperlink that says here.
Johnson's Creek ~ FAQ and there is a certification report somewhere on their website.

I've never done business with PS but checked here at ECF (this is the PS you reference is it not?),followed the link to their site and found:

They list as being located in Tennessee. They say they're affiliated in some manner with an outfit in the UK. I looked all over the site for the tox. report you posted and could not find it. This could be my own inadequacies as proven by my earlier misidentification.

The tox report you posted for PS was purportedly done in 2007 at the listed university which is in Belgium. I don't think there's an affiliate here?
The product tested , called Super Smoker, included liquid.

My spider sense is tingling on this one. To be honest with you the date alone would prevent me from checking the veracity of the report. I wouldn't be overconfident here.

Let me know if you have different findings -- you're right to be cautious.

I'll check on the other two you mentioned in the near future and report back.

Have to run,

Good Night

 

[grandmato5]

While I agree with the phrase "Where there is a will there will always be a way" for the average consumer that has yet to try an e-cig or for many now using an e-cig I do beleive that the outcome of the case will have a major impact on the future of their use or non-use of the e-cig.

If classifed as a drug delivery device it will essentally shut down most of the vendors we have all come to love here in the US. yes, one could still order directly from China but there will be more seizures from China and the public in general is not going to risk loosing their orders and facing a penalty. Again, the general public of e-cig users are not going to go through all the trouble to secure all the different things they need to keep their e-cig habit going. Of coase it will be possible and there will be some that will do what ever they have to do to continue to vape but not the vast majority of those now vaping and it will certainly stop to a tiny trickle those that will become vaporers that do not vape now.

If the outcome right now is that the e-cig is concidered a tobacco product the ease of which we now can purchase the devise will pretty much stay the same for the time being. For right now the purchase of liquid will also stay the same. I have no doubt that it wouldn't be terribly long before our flavored juices many enjoy purchasing would be curtailed (remember the flavors attract children according to those against e-cigs) although fairly easily remedied by purchasing the nic/pg/vg non flavored mix and flavoring seperately and mixing at home which most people could easily get used to doing as long as they can easily purchase the supplies they would need.

Even if the outcome of this suit is to classify the e-cig as a tobacco product there is still the States rights laws to consider bringing th e-cig movement to a halt. So far, all attempts to outright ban e-cigs within states has been stopped but that could change very quickly. Here in NYS we await seeing if the NYS Senate Health committee sends the e-cig ban legislation approved by the state Assemby or even a slightly different version to the state Senate for a vote. We can hope it never makes it out of committee or if it does that it ONLY ask for a ban on the sale of e-cigs to minors but IMHO If the verdict of the pending FDA case is to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product the bill (with a few minor changes)will be sent to the state Senate to be voted upon and once the Assembly and Senate have agree upon the same language for the bill NYS will place a ban on the sale of e-cigs to all. I sincerely hope I will be wrong but IF NYS does ban the sale of e-cigs I am sincerely afriad that other states will follow suit.

 

[progg]

Pure Smoker ~ http://www.supersmokerjp.com/images/ToxicologylaboratoryTestResultsEnglishtranslatiion.pdf
Totally Wicked ~ Electronic Cigarette / Electronic Cigarette Company Scroll down to the red hyperlink that says here.
Johnson's Creek ~ FAQ and there is a certification report somewhere on their website.

Ah, I can't leave without this tid bit-- See this thread from 2009 at ECF :

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ws/8681-super-smoker-new-supplier-europe.html


Good Night

 

[DC2]

I sincerely hope I will be wrong but IF NYS does ban the sale of e-cigs I am sincerely afriad that other states will follow suit.

And with that in mind, this is a good place to post this, in hopes people will get up to speed on exactly where things stand...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...t-important-thing-every-vaper-needs-know.html

 

[DaveP]

Ecigs are becoming more accepted, even with the negative publicity over anti-freeze in one or two samples the FDA tested. Rush Limbaugh is a friend for Vapers, however you might feel about his political leanings. Ecigs are turning up on late night talk shows and the public is becoming more literate on the terms. Every time we explain how it works, people are impressed and decide that they are a good alternative to tobacco.

The real barrier is big tobacco and big pharma. These people stand to lose big if tobacco products are on the downswing.

BTW, A large syringe comes in every inkjet printer refill kit. It has a blunt tip that won't stick you and it's good for thicker liquids since it has a large gauge needle. If you can refill a cart, you can refill your inket printer carts almost as easily and wash out the syringe between uses. I have several syringes from inkjet kits and they work just fine for ejuice. You can refill all four inkjet carts in a printer several times on a $25 kit.

Madvapes also sells syringes on their website from 50 cents to 99 cents each.
Droppers and Mixing Supplies

 

[Rosa]

It seems to me that PV's can be used for more than just e-juice. To not stray too far from the ecigarettes with some weird analogy for people to pick on... what about the guys who are down to 0 nicotine content with their liquid?

Seeing as PV's can, and are, used outside of being a nicotine delivery device... doesnt that mean that it is not souly used as a drug delivery system? So how could they regulate it?

They could regulate it because their pockets are deeper than mine or yours and they run things around here. It doesn't have to be fair or make any sense, that's why it sucks.

 

[Warped3k]

Please no more illegal drug talk here, while you can discuss ecigs in relation to using it as a drug delivery device, you can not discuss illegal substances.

 

[sam12six]

It seems to me that PV's can be used for more than just e-juice. To not stray too far from the ecigarettes with some weird analogy for people to pick on... what about the guys who are down to 0 nicotine content with their liquid?

Seeing as PV's can, and are, used outside of being a nicotine delivery device... doesnt that mean that it is not souly used as a drug delivery system? So how could they regulate it?

You CAN use the patch as expensive small pieces of duct tape. You COULD put nicorette on a hook and use it for fish bait. These uses aren't the manufacturers stated purpose in creating the products (I'm assuming this ) and aren't the legal purpose of the items.

The question is not to what other possible uses the device can be put. It's what the device's legal purpose is.

What I mean is - Take horses. They aren't cattle, but for a lot of legal purposes (transport, insurance, whatever) they ARE cattle. In other words, there's the dictionary definition of cattle, and the legal definition (which is sometimes 4 legged animals over 100lbs or something like that).

The possible uses for the PV, its intended use, how the directions tell you to use it - none of these things matter as to the legal definition. Its legal definition is whatever the court decides it is. Should they decide it's an assault weapon, that's how it'll be regulated...

 

[progg]

I've never done business with PS but checked here at ECF (this is the PS you reference is it not?),followed the link to their site and found:

They list as being located in Tennessee. They say they're affiliated in some manner with an outfit in the UK. I looked all over the site for the tox. report you posted and could not find it. This could be my own inadequacies as proven by my earlier misidentification.

The tox report you posted for PS was purportedly done in 2007 at the listed university which is in Belgium. I don't think there's an affiliate here?
The product tested , called Super Smoker, included liquid.

My spider sense is tingling on this one. To be honest with you the date alone would prevent me from checking the veracity of the report. I wouldn't be overconfident here.

Let me know if you have different findings -- you're right to be cautious.

I'll check on the other two you mentioned in the near future and report back.

Have to run,

Good Night

With the above quote in mind:

I'm not going to publicly investigate this any further because :

I've led the discussion off topic.

I have no idea where the report(s) came from.

As the various vendors are under immense pressure to survive the political uncertainty, I feel I'd only be unintentionally piling on at this point. Their livelihood is at stake.

Special mention of PS - I in no way meant to imply that they've done anything mischievous or out of the ordinary for the USA E-cig buisness. I've visited their sub here at ECF and found they have many delighted customers (some of whom I know to be trustworthy).

With that said, should we expect vendors to provide certifiably safe liquids? Yes.

Is it possible they've fallen short in this regard? Yes.

Was it fear of the political consequences? Possibly. This is a new industry and perhaps customers should have been more vigilant.

My .02 for now.

Have a good weekend

 

[progg]

And with that in mind, this is a good place to post this, in hopes people will get up to speed on exactly where things stand...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...t-important-thing-every-vaper-needs-know.html

Thanks DC2 for posting this . I had heard it before and I agree it should be stickied.

 

[silkakc]

Price:
I understand this is a competitive market but raping people should not be allowed.
I was looking around and found someone selling a 10ML bottle for $40. (That liquid should have gold flakes)
.

That is my main concern. The price AFTER it is approved, if it does get approved. I just bought 125 ml 60 mg nicotine juice for $39.00. I live in NY where cigs cost $10 a pack and the tax is 4.65 per frigging pack. That 125 ml bottle is the equivalent of 100 packs of cigs- just for a estimated number New York will want to tax that 125 ml bottle $465.00 . So my $39 bottle will then cost over $500.00.



Lori

 

[klamathkid]

If the FDA defines/designates e-cigs and e-cig supplies as a tobacco product, will there not be a ban on shipping them via USPS?