Why don't you become a supporting member?
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Exactly, some people are of the belief that this Forum runs on fresh air. ECF is not a Listed company, they do not need to explain their Financial Structure or Profit if any to Anyone other than the Taxman. I do not see the significance of raising the question.
When a member logs on or even lurks without joining they still gain the benefit of the Forum, in Real Time. The reader does not get a Pop Up every ten seconds Requesting subscription Nor does he get a partially Blanked Out screen with a Pop Up suggesting he could read the rest but Only if he Subscribed.
ECF has always been Low Key about Subscriptions. If people feel the need to Justify their personal reasons for Not subscribing that's fine, But what they should Not do is turn their personal reason into an ECF problem and ostensibly Shunt the blame on ECF for their Decision in Choosing Not to subscribe.
I became a supporting member after a few months I like to pay my way. I do not feel I am owed anything in life. I enjoy ECF it can not operate for free so since I use the services ECF offers I feel obligated to pay the membership fee. That is just me and my since of values. Others might not see it as I do.
In defense of anyone stating their reason for not becoming a member the title of the thread is " Why don't you become a supporting member? "
So those of us including me who answered Im a member because are guilty of highjacking the thread and did not post a answer to the OPs question to begin with.
Im assuming ECF is able to pay its bills as its here. I think if they need money surely they will ask the members. So until its stated they need donations and are in jeopardy of shutting down the hitch hikers can ride to their hearts content.
In defense of anyone stating their reason for not becoming a member the title of the thread is " Why don't you become a supporting member? "
So those of us including me who answered Im a member because are guilty of highjacking the thread and did not post a answer to the OPs question to begin with.
Im assuming ECF is able to pay its bills as its here. I think if they need money surely they will ask the members. So until its stated they need donations and are in jeopardy of shutting down the hitch hikers can ride to their hearts content.
I'm not a supporting member because I don't know if I could stay here a whole year without being banned.
Entirely up to you. If you don't want to be banned, the rules are pretty idiot proof.
That's true, you aren't an idiot. 
Maybe a little grouchy lately, but not an idiot.
*Edit: I'm joking with you Mike.
People that don't want to get banned from any forum rarely do.
Maybe a little grouchy lately, but not an idiot.*Edit: I'm joking with you Mike.
People that don't want to get banned from any forum rarely do.
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I'm glad you guys reminded me. I just paid my "dues." I've definitely got more than $24 worth of info from this site. I know that it's saved me more than 10 times that much, so far.
ohhohh i want to get banned!!
but not today...check with me in a few months i'll have to get back with you on that caridwen the "outside" has its good and bad days ya know?
i may actually pay the 25$ at some point in the near future, but living on disability has its disadvantages.
but not today...check with me in a few months i'll have to get back with you on that caridwen the "outside" has its good and bad days ya know?
i may actually pay the 25$ at some point in the near future, but living on disability has its disadvantages.
My reason is fairly simple, it doesn't allow you access to the classifieds. If it did I'd pay up today, and pay much more than the standard fee.
I love ECF, and would love to be a supporting member, but personally find it a bit of an offense that even if I pay money out of my pocket, I'm still not able to buy and sell with the rest of ECF. I refuse to use eBay or PayPal due to personal experiences with both of them in the past, I think they are a terrible company and haves some serious moral issues with their actions. I'm not singing back up on either site just to buy and sell here on ECF. Having no access to the classifieds obviously I've never bought or sold anything here, so nobody can "vouch" for me to get into the classifieds. Catch 22 if I ever heard one. The NetID thing is out of the window for personal reasons.
So, I figured, no need to fear, I'm sure being a supporting member means you have access to the classifieds, which evidently isn't the case.
I totally understand the reason for having checks in place to help stop scammers. I was a member of a forum that had "secret" classifieds (***) sections that weren't allowed to be spoken of in the public forum, as is an invite only deal. Unless several people in the know nominated you, and you were let in, you wouldn't even know there was a classifieds. Even with this level of care, there were still scammers, I was had for about 600 bucks by a long-time, highly respected member of the community. He scammed about 20 other people at the same time too.
Now I'm starting to ramble, but overall my feelings are this: I've been here close to 2 years, have never caused trouble (AFAIK) and have done my absolute best to be a contributing member who helps his fellow vapers whenever possible. I'd like to help out financially as well, and would, but it just feels like too much of a slap in the face for me. I understand the need for the rule, sometimes people fall thought the cracks and just can't meet certain requirements, and that's OK, but that doesn't mean those people have to be happy about it.
After reading this post I realized it came off a bit... hostile? I just wanted to make clear that I'm not attacking ECF or it's policies, just explaining my personal reasons for not being a supporting member. No ill will towards ECF coming from me.
I love ECF, and would love to be a supporting member, but personally find it a bit of an offense that even if I pay money out of my pocket, I'm still not able to buy and sell with the rest of ECF. I refuse to use eBay or PayPal due to personal experiences with both of them in the past, I think they are a terrible company and haves some serious moral issues with their actions. I'm not singing back up on either site just to buy and sell here on ECF. Having no access to the classifieds obviously I've never bought or sold anything here, so nobody can "vouch" for me to get into the classifieds. Catch 22 if I ever heard one. The NetID thing is out of the window for personal reasons.
So, I figured, no need to fear, I'm sure being a supporting member means you have access to the classifieds, which evidently isn't the case.
I totally understand the reason for having checks in place to help stop scammers. I was a member of a forum that had "secret" classifieds (***) sections that weren't allowed to be spoken of in the public forum, as is an invite only deal. Unless several people in the know nominated you, and you were let in, you wouldn't even know there was a classifieds. Even with this level of care, there were still scammers, I was had for about 600 bucks by a long-time, highly respected member of the community. He scammed about 20 other people at the same time too.
Now I'm starting to ramble, but overall my feelings are this: I've been here close to 2 years, have never caused trouble (AFAIK) and have done my absolute best to be a contributing member who helps his fellow vapers whenever possible. I'd like to help out financially as well, and would, but it just feels like too much of a slap in the face for me. I understand the need for the rule, sometimes people fall thought the cracks and just can't meet certain requirements, and that's OK, but that doesn't mean those people have to be happy about it.
After reading this post I realized it came off a bit... hostile? I just wanted to make clear that I'm not attacking ECF or it's policies, just explaining my personal reasons for not being a supporting member. No ill will towards ECF coming from me.
Very offbeat, complicated and nearly ridiculous requirements for the classifieds indeed that offers little protection from scammers at all, and is in fact 1 of several criteria that affect my decision for membership. Sockpuppeteering using remote computers is not only encouraged, even prevents the identity of the offender(s) to ever become known. Until they utilize secure systems of identification I wouldn't be interested in them anyways.
All this could be so easily resolved if the site opted to take credit cards, and/or perform rudimentary identity checks, and have no problem if these had to be paid for. It is a service after all.
I won't ever do the ebay or paypal thing either. Never had any need to. Not interested.
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You can complain about the classifieds verification process and say it doesn't work, but you'd be wrong. But that is a subject for another thread and one near and dear to j0kers heart. try doing a search and you'll see
Thanks for your response. My experience in similar matters say otherwise.You can complain about the classifieds verification process and say it doesn't work, but you'd be wrong. But that is a subject for another thread and one near and dear to j0kers heart. try doing a search and you'll see
Do you have a particular thread(s) that you are referring to?
Since the classifieds verification has been in place there has been a grand total of one "fraud" and that was resolved after "mediation", so in other words we have had zero issues since it was put in place. That would counter-indicate your experience (not invalidate - just counter-indicate it as far as ECF is concerned).
Before verification was put in place j0ker spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with issues. Is the system perfect? Of course not. is it better? Yes, by an order of magnitude.
Before verification was put in place j0ker spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with issues. Is the system perfect? Of course not. is it better? Yes, by an order of magnitude.
From Joker's blog
There are other ways to get verified besides paypal.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/283955-how-become-verified-member.html
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Indeed there are, and I addressed each one individually in my first post.
Like I said, I didn't bring it up to complain or provoke changing of the rules, I brought it up because it's the answer to the OP's question. No system works perfectly, and like I said before, I'm OK with that. I brought up personal experience about the effectiveness of such restrictions (as did another member I believe) simply to paint a better picture of where I was coming from with my reasoning and opinions, not to belittle the efforts of the staff to avoid fraud.
Honestly, I had no idea the whole subject was the can of worms it appears to be. I didn't even know there was a classifieds here until AFTER I couldn't use it. Shows how much I know.
Basically they're saying that for classifieds verification they want the same level of verification that you would achieve by verifying yourself toPay Palor as an eBay seller. They don't have the infrastructure to independently implement their own verification system that would be the same quality as those systems so they piggy back off those systems, It's a sensible approach. I would bet they'd use other systems for the same purpose if there were more of them. You should suggestothers if you know of any. Maybe a Google or Amazon account or something like that.
Also, although my reply seemed tongue and cheek, it is a real concern. I occasionally lack self control or may be ignorant of one of your many rules. This is a highly policed environment. I could well be banned at any time. That isn't a protest or an argument, it's just reality. So that does deter me from committing myself to the forum.
Greetz oldsoldier and Caridwen ...
Thanks for your responses. Below issues I have outlined that should warrant a review:
1. Paypal
= a scam ... have seen too much of ... no need to belabor the subject:
The risks of using Paypal
PayPal Complaints, PayPal Customer Service & eBay Suspension Complaints
No legal protection.
2. Vouch
= my post delineates on that: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-become-supporting-member-10.html#post8556376
3. Ebay
= have nothing to do with them, nor will I create an account with them in order to access the classifieds here. No one will buy from there in order to get a 98% rating in order to access the classifieds. Time waster.
4. NetID
= way too easy to create bogus IDs. No wonder it's free. They've also been accused of scamming, haven't done enough invest to confirm that.
So J0ker spends a fabulous amount of time verifying members? Why? What's the MC/VISA aversion, since most serious e-vendors take them? You have thousands of members, e-cigs are picking up in popularity, why not short-circuit all the complications & inadequate legal protections for your members and start taking credit cards? Whatever costs are involved with it is probably a fraction of the memberships fees you lose because of it ... maybe even some money for mods doing a fabulous job here.
Anywho ... just a few suggestions.
Thanks for your responses. Below issues I have outlined that should warrant a review:
1. Paypal
= a scam ... have seen too much of ... no need to belabor the subject:
The risks of using Paypal
PayPal Complaints, PayPal Customer Service & eBay Suspension Complaints
No legal protection.
2. Vouch
= my post delineates on that: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-become-supporting-member-10.html#post8556376
3. Ebay
= have nothing to do with them, nor will I create an account with them in order to access the classifieds here. No one will buy from there in order to get a 98% rating in order to access the classifieds. Time waster.
4. NetID
= way too easy to create bogus IDs. No wonder it's free. They've also been accused of scamming, haven't done enough invest to confirm that.
So J0ker spends a fabulous amount of time verifying members? Why? What's the MC/VISA aversion, since most serious e-vendors take them? You have thousands of members, e-cigs are picking up in popularity, why not short-circuit all the complications & inadequate legal protections for your members and start taking credit cards? Whatever costs are involved with it is probably a fraction of the memberships fees you lose because of it ... maybe even some money for mods doing a fabulous job here.
Anywho ... just a few suggestions.
ECF is not an e-vendor. Do you realize that the CC authorization companies and CC issuers take a percentage of every transaction? Not to mention the time and effort it takes to account for all of these fees. It sounds great from your sofa but it doesn't really work in reality.
Take a gander at this to get a basic idea of the costs involved, and why ECF probably doesn't want to get involved with it.
Credit Card Processing Fees & Rates | Credit Card Processing Insider
Take a gander at this to get a basic idea of the costs involved, and why ECF probably doesn't want to get involved with it.
Credit Card Processing Fees & Rates | Credit Card Processing Insider
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