Why Health Canada has it wrong

[Conras]

Been vaping for 4 months or so now, and this runaround hassle with health Canada is starting to piss me off.

I guess the fact that going through an inhaler per month for athsma that I've been in the hospital three times in the previous year for was acceptable.

Or maybe the thought that at age 22 I was hacking up phlegm balls every morning with shorteness of breath was alright.

Maybe they would hate the fact that after 4 months I can run 3 miles to work when before I could barely make it up the steps without my chest hurting.

Maybe they disapprove of the fact that my blood pressure is now normal.

Or it could be the dismay of knowing that I may live past thirty due to finding a healthier alternative.

No, it's the tax dollars.

Sorry for the rant, frustrated as all hell as I can tell most of you are aswell. Sometimes it's good to vent.

vape on,

Koore

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Venting is always good. It's just a shame there is no solution on the horizon

 

[naga77777]

i was just reading another thread by a canadian speaking of a customs hassle, and the word "ban" was brought into the convo. Has canada banned e-cigs?

 

[Switched]

Becasue of the political correctness of Canadians They call it "electronic cigarettes do not have market authorization in Canada"

 

[Mindfield]

Tax dollars certainly is a huge part of it. But another very significant part of it is standards. There aren't any in the industry right now, and the vendors and manufacturers need to provide a standards proposal as a step towards proper regulation. Like the FDA in the US, HC wants to try and have E-cigs regulated as drug delivery devices. Hopefully, also like the FDA in the US, the court will smack that idea down and allow them to be regulated as reduced-risk tobacco products.

But our vendors need to be a key part of this, and that is what is going on right now. Canadian vendors are finally organizing and starting to fight this. With luck and a lot of fight, we might be able to get where the US is now.

 

[drac]

If for some insane reason they rule it as a drug delivery device, doesn't that put it in the hands of our Doctors. Would we be able to get a prescription for our e-cigs. Then one day be able to bring them in legally.

 

[Pipeous]

I'll have to put on my flame suit here...

I think some regulation of standards would be a good thing. lab testing, proper labelling of bottles. I need to know what's in the juices that make me ill. there are a few out there that do and it's scary to me. wednesday night I was bent over, hands on knees and coughing uncontrollably, nose eyes and mouth running liquids, throat tightened up. and that tightness sticks with me for a couple days. I don't want the recipe, I just want to know the ingredients

drug delivery device would kill the industry in canada. there wouldn't be any mfg willing to spend the cash to have it market authorized and we will be a black market e cig nation then, making matters worse. harm reduction, not smoking cessation. the cessation is just a wonderful by product to many

 

[Conras]

I'll have to put on my flame suit here...

I think some regulation of standards would be a good thing. lab testing, proper labelling of bottles. I need to know what's in the juices that make me ill. there are a few out there that do and it's scary to me. wednesday night I was bent over, hands on knees and coughing uncontrollably, nose eyes and mouth running liquids, throat tightened up. and that tightness sticks with me for a couple days. I don't want the recipe, I just want to know the ingredients

drug delivery device would kill the industry in canada. there wouldn't be any mfg willing to spend the cash to have it market authorized and we will be a black market e cig nation then, making matters worse. harm reduction, not smoking cessation. the cessation is just a wonderful by product to many

Why on earth would anybody flame you for that? Seems absolutely reasonable.

 

[Pipeous]

because most want things to stay as is. testing and labelling will raise juice prices

 

[Mindfield]

because most want things to stay as is. testing and labelling will raise juice prices

I don't think we are going to be able to avoid a rise in juice prices. Even if we can manage a miracle and follow the UK's lead there are still going to have to be regulations that need to be followed and some of those are going to cost vendors money that they will have to pass on to the customer.

 

[rachelcoffe]

I dare say the industry freedoms that appropriate regulation will bring, will lower prices here.

One: the costs of compliance with such are not at all prohibitive. And there are methods available to lower even those costs, significantly. No industry goes unregulated. No industry should go unregulated. But regulation should be appropriate & affordable.

Two: vendors sometimes lose huge sums of time, money or both...due to Customs seizures. That hurts their ability to provide a competitive price & stay in business.

Three: the present inability to openly advertise & sell e-cigs & e-juice w/nic the same way any other product would be (in stores, gas stations, etc, as well as online) also doesn't help our vendors' bottom line. The potential customer base is barely being tapped, because of the above restrictions. Think of all the Canadian smokers out there who have still never even imagined vaping, let alone heard of it.

The reasons above are what drive prices up in Canada. Remove those barriers, and the customer base will expand exponentially. How do we remove those barriers? Well..that ball is in the industry's court. They need to adopt industry-wide standards...and professionally, effectively propose the alternative of sensible regulation to HC. It's necessary, if they want to flourish.

If and when our Canadian e-cig / e-juice industry takes ahold of the freedom that it wants, by doing what it needs to do...business will be booming, and so the prices will become more attractive to consumers. Not overnight, but certainly in time. An industry that is free to flourish will obviously be a competitive one.

That'd be good news for vendors and vapers in Canada.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

I don't think we are going to be able to avoid a rise in juice prices. Even if we can manage a miracle and follow the UK's lead there are still going to have to be regulations that need to be followed and some of those are going to cost vendors money that they will have to pass on to the customer.

Nope. With regulation, I'd bet that your vendors would be the pharmacies. I think you're right that the cost would increase, but I don't think it be coming from the same online vendors.

I think we'd still be a long way from getting it from convenience stores or tobacco shops, never mind being able to buy it online.

 

[rachelcoffe]

Nope. With regulation, I'd bet that your vendors would be the pharmacies. I think you're right that the cost would increase, but I don't think it be coming from the same online vendors.

I respect your feeling, bobsyeruncle. But look to the UK and the work that ECITA has done. As we can see...appropriate regulation is neither prohibitive, nor does it drive these products away from our present vendors into the domain of pharmacies.

ecita.org.uk

 

[Infojunkie]

I respect your feeling, bobsyeruncle. But look to the UK and the work that ECITA has done. As we can see...appropriate regulation is neither prohibitive, nor does it drive these products away from our present vendors into the domain of pharmacies.

ecita.org.uk

I would like to see more sellers become members of that based on their on their E-Liquid testing. Being part of a group that has tested the product gives Health Canada less of a reason to ban them based purely on ingredients. Plus it sounds like they give sellers a way to talk to the government and get results...in our favour.

Being rigourously tested can only help our cause.

 

[Mindfield]

I respect your feeling, bobsyeruncle. But look to the UK and the work that ECITA has done. As we can see...appropriate regulation is neither prohibitive, nor does it drive these products away from our present vendors into the domain of pharmacies.

ecita.org.uk

I would really love to see that sort of thing happen here, too. The cynic in me tends to think we likely won't see that sort of thing here, but I remain hopeful, as something like the ECITA here would be the most ideal situation.

 

[JayTheVapingGuy]

we don't need to pay the prices we do in canada right now... the only reason that those prices are being charged is because they know we'll pay... if we were to boycott them, they'd bring the prices down to a reasonable level, or go out of business...


i'm sadly getting more and more cynical about the canadian Ecig/ejuice market every day... when i see examples of juice and devices outside of canada for 1/3 of the price of the same canadian devices (and thats not even looking at manufactures wholesale prices which are often at 1/5th the price of the canadian prices),,,

I'm all for someone making a buck... but raping a community on the basis of fearmongering that we cannot rely on outside vendors and we're going to loose all of our money and get nothing...


shame....

 

[bobsyeruncle]

I've gotten stuff from BackwoodsBrew no problem. The American vendors are still competitors even when the occasional customs hassle happens. We all know the situation with Health Canada. And I don't see the vendors trying to capitalize on fears. They themselves still face the threat of "the letter" from HC which has already stopped a few vendors in their tracks. If the Canadian vendors felt they could still make money while charging less, I think many of them would.

Economics 101: if the market was more open, there would be more demand and the costs would go down. I have my doubts about online juice sales thriving when Health Canada regulates e-liquid instead of banning it. But, if the vendors could still sell their juice with the approval of Health Canada, the market would open up. That would bring costs down.

 

[mopar]

because most want things to stay as is. testing and labelling will raise juice prices

Unfortunately, regulation is the only way for it to become legitimate and legal. Just hope it never becomes a 5ml bottle of 2mg costing $50 + HST of course

 

[rachelcoffe]

Unfortunately, regulation is the only way for it to become legitimate and legal. Just hope it never becomes a 5ml bottle of 2mg costing $50 + HST of course

Rest assured hon...no vendor would ever be on-board with that kind of crazy, haha. As I said yesterday...look to the UK and the work that ECITA has done. As you'll see...appropriate regulation is not prohibitive to vendors or vapers, financially or product-wise.

The UK vendors over there are still selling the same things they sold before...including juices & liquids with the same strengths of nicotine as before. The only difference is that now, their products are demonstrably compliant (on an ongoing basis) with sensible, appropriate regulation. Regulatory officials are happy - vendors are happy - vapers are happy. That's the way!

 

[Pipeous]

I just have experience in another realm of health canada. I ran a carpet and upholstery cleaning business for many years. trained in fibre identification and cleaning etc. I did exotic fabrics and such. dry cleaning solvent was used a lot when I started, tri trichloroethane (spelling might be off, to lazy to search) was $15 a gallon. then regulations came in. they found it environmentally unfriendly and they just priced us out of the market and was up to $90 a gallon by the end of that year. now you can't even buy it.

I hope we get things on track AND prices come down. I'd be happy paying the same prices if I knew what I was buying was tested. it's still way cheaper than smoking. sure I am a cynic.