Why is e-liquid selling at such high prices ?

[ClintS]

I have paid over $30 US for a cheeseburger, to me the situation warranted it. Today I bought a bottle of five pawns for $27.50 and a 30ml bottle of Mr. e-liquids Bermuda Rain for $14.50.

I did not have to buy any of them, nor do I think about the maker charging to much. Each was worth the price to me, so I purchased them. That was not true for others around me at any of the purchases.

In the free market a business could charge X for 2N number of products and make a living. Or the business could charge 2X for N number of products if the market sustains the price. Or a person could choose to make N number of products for themselves because they didn't want to pay the price of either business. There is no price gouging involved at all, just people's choices that best fit thier needs and circumstances.

Quite simply, if one can't agree with the cost, don't buy it. If there are enough people along the same line, then the business will have to change to stay in business.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

There is juice out there for any price range. But, like a lot of folk I always seemed to prefer the expensive stuff so I went to diy. I spend 31 dollars a month on DIY supplies and that gets me 360 mls of liquid. I also let myself buy 2 bottles of premium juice a month at 44.00 for 60 mls.
I generally make deserts, custards, and something similar to mothers milk for my DIY so I buy stuff like trinity reserve from Lazarus or gambit from 5 pawns so that I can mix it up and not get bored with my own stuff. It in the end the market dictates the price, basic economics of supply and demand. Hey if I could sell my DIY for 25 bucks per 30 ml, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I would love to et a bottle of Sir James from Lazarus but at 45 dollars a bottle I'll wait till I can afford a bottle of dom perignon to go with it

 

[Midniteoyl]

Price gouging
price gouging

noun
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits.

Alternatively, it may refer to suppliers' benefiting to excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.

Price gouging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MacTechVpr]

Price gouging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What are you saying midnite, that some juice makers are behaving like the regulated tobacco industry? Or, dare I say it, like government?



The answer is not necessarily more of the same you might agree.

Since vaping more resembles cooking I think more than any other human activity, the obvious conclusion seems the most persuasive of all. You are the best determinant of your own palate in your own kitchen.

Good luck.



Some folks are wise and some are otherwise. -- Tobias George Smolett

 

[Rossum]

Can't do that, we're not even allowed to mention you can DIY for 5¢/ml or else we're an entitled consumer wanting something for nothing

Who suggested that? By all means, tell the world that you can DIY for 5 cents/ml. But understand that many people simply don't wish to be bothered mixing their own juice, just as many don't wish to be bothered rebuilding atomizers. (Personally I'm in the former camp, but not the latter).

The other thing you should do is to start your own juice company and sell your juice at whatever you believe is a fair price. There are almost no barriers to entry in that business right now. If your product is good and existing vendors are indeed price gouging, the world will beat a path to your doorstep and you'll be making a darn good living in short order. So instead of complaining that others are gouging, start mixing and selling at whatever price you think constitutes a fair markup.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Who suggested that? By all means, tell the world that you can DIY for 5 cents/ml. But understand that many people simply don't wish to be bothered mixing their own juice, just as many don't wish to be bothered rebuilding atomizers. (Personally I'm in the former camp, but not the latter).

The other thing you should do is to start your own juice company and sell your juice at whatever you believe is a fair price. There are almost no barriers to entry in that business right now. If your product is good and existing vendors are indeed price gouging, the world will beat a path to your doorstep and you'll be making a darn good living in short order. So instead of complaining that others are gouging, start mixing and selling at whatever price you think constitutes a fair markup.

All that's fair, right?

It's all good ros (that's my problem).

Good luck

 

[Kropotkin]

It seems to me you are mis-using the term "price gouging". In an essentially unregulated market, with plenty of supply from hundreds of different vendors who are all competing, there can be no "price gouging". If you think a particular liquid is too expensive, there's a simple solution: Don't buy it.

Yes, exactly.

The eliquid market is essentially the Wild, Wild West - in other words, a Right Libertarian paradise. Capitalism in its purest, most untrammeled form. Free market nirvana!

But anybody who actually supports this market must be a "price gouging" "con man" in real life?







I love this forum and always will.

 

[Tangaroav]

Who suggested that? By all means, tell the world that you can DIY for 5 cents/ml. But understand that many people simply don't wish to be bothered mixing their own juice, just as many don't wish to be bothered rebuilding atomizers. (Personally I'm in the former camp, but not the latter).

The other thing you should do is to start your own juice company and sell your juice at whatever you believe is a fair price. There are almost no barriers to entry in that business right now. If your product is good and existing vendors are indeed price gouging, the world will beat a path to your doorstep and you'll be making a darn good living in short order. So instead of complaining that others are gouging, start mixing and selling at whatever price you think constitutes a fair markup.

It is a fact that many vapers are not interested to mix their own and that taste plays the major role concening where to buy e-juices and how much to pay.

I am not complaining or whining, just stating my point of view concerning the retail market of e-juices.

DIY is one alternative to beat higher than warranted retail pricing. Discussing it on forums like ECF bring awareness to people being gouged. In my case, after being informed of the facts concerning chinese offerings mostly here on ECF and evaluating the risks/gains I made the decision to ordered 300ml of Dekang juices on FT.

If the imminent regulations where not threatening the market, we would see a dramatic reduction in e-juices prices. There is no reason why the chinese prices at less than 4$/30ml could not be offered here. Little manpower/no special knowledge is required to mix the ingredients.

All the arguments about business expenses do not convince me that a 500% to 800% gross profit for mixing a few liquids in differents recipes makes sense for most of us.

To those who are blessed with funds to supply their habits/hobbies at this inflated cost without questioning and drink a good vintage of Dom Perignon I say, cheers and enjoy. To the rest of us I say, lets look for alternatives and share your ways of improving this situation.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Price gouging? How are they price gouging? It's not a product that anyone, "needs" it's not gasoline, medication or a basic necessity. It's the most literal form of the free market system at work. The price is set by supply and demand, as true macroeconomics. There are brands such as, Mt Baker and NC Vapes, that carry rather inexpensive juice. Yeah Mt Baker tastes like used TP, but NC is not half bad and both are rather cheap. 5 pawns, Lazarus and Suicide Bunny as three of the bigger premium names charges a bit more because people buy it. If people didn't the price would come down. I won't fault any business that follows basic economic principals to maximize their profit. I'll add, some of the premium companies won't allow resellers to charge over a certain amount. I know for a fact one of the aforementioned brands will not allow a retailer to charge more than 22$/30ml of liquid and a local shop was charging 25. Guess who no longer sells that product?
We are all free to make our own choices in who gets what money in exchange for goods and services.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

It seems to me you are mis-using the term "price gouging". In an essentially unregulated market, with plenty of supply from hundreds of different vendors who are all competing, there can be no "price gouging". If you think a particular liquid is too expensive, there's a simple solution: Don't buy it.

Exactly 100% spot-on!

Here's my take on Price gouging - when a seller raises prices due to real or artificial supply shortages, or anticipated demand spikes. Typically found on goods & services that are not discretionary / optional, to the consumer, i.e., gasoline, milk, bread, natural gas, propane, etc.

Examples:

• Someone in the Middle East stubs their toes, thus U.S. gasoline supplies are hysterically deemed to be "endangered". Every gasoline wholesaler raises their prices.
• Large storm is forecast: plywood and 'staple' foods, bottled water, etc prices increase
• Holidays - gasoline prices increase due to expected spike in demand
• After a storm - roofers command exorbitant prices due to increased demand for their specialized service

Notice that each example is of products or services that are basic needs, or specific to the 'moment'. The key here is that supply is constrained, and options / alternatives are limited.

The consumer has few choices

So Rossum has it 100% correct - there are 100's or more options for us as consumers to choose from, from DIY to any of the many many vendors out there who have lower pricing schedules.

Anyone who pays the kind of prices I see quoted throughout these conversations about 'premium' juices and the whining that goes with it... it was YOU who decided that product was worth the price, and pulled out your $$.

You choose to pay that price in lieu of the many alternatives & options available to you

That's the open, and free-market doing what it does best, providing the maximum and optimal utilization of the resources available in the economy / marketplace. People creating products that others value & enter into a free exchange of goods & money.

Personally, I see prices like those and think good for you! Obviously the product is deemed to be worth the price to a sufficient number of consumers that the company continues to produce it, and everyone walks away from that transaction as a winner

Luckily for me, my tastebuds are much easier to satisfy, and I get along quite wonderfully with larger quantity purchases from Mt Baker Vapor, Killer Juice, both of which are $5-7 / 30ml, and will venture into DIY soon too

To each their own, in a world of 1,000's of options*

* Options that are under attack by the WHO and proposed FDA regulations!!!!!

Join CASAA TODAY and contact your local media & politicians NOW!!! BE HEARD!
​

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Exactly 100% spot-on!

Here's my take on Price gouging - when a seller raises prices due to real or artificial supply shortages, or anticipated demand spikes. Typically found on goods & services that are not discretionary / optional, to the consumer, i.e., gasoline, milk, bread, natural gas, propane, etc.

Examples:

• Someone in the Middle East stubs their toes, thus U.S. gasoline supplies are hysterically deemed to be "endangered". Every gasoline wholesaler raises their prices.
• Large storm is forecast: plywood and 'staple' foods, bottled water, etc prices increase
• Holidays - gasoline prices increase due to expected spike in demand
• After a storm - roofers command exorbitant prices due to increased demand for their specialized service

Notice that each example is of products or services that are basic needs, or specific to the 'moment'. The key here is that supply is constrained, and options / alternatives are limited.

The consumer has few choices

So Rossum has it 100% correct - there are 100's or more options for us as consumers to choose from, from DIY to any of the many many vendors out there who have lower pricing schedules.

Anyone who pays the kind of prices I see quoted throughout these conversations about 'premium' juices and the whining that goes with it... it was YOU who decided that product was worth the price, and pulled out your $$.

You choose to pay that price in lieu of the many alternatives & options available to you

That's the open, and free-market doing what it does best, providing the maximum and optimal utilization of the resources available in the economy / marketplace. People creating products that others value & enter into a free exchange of goods & money.

Personally, I see prices like those and think good for you! Obviously the product is deemed to be worth the price to a sufficient number of consumers that the company continues to produce it, and everyone walks away from that transaction as a winner

Luckily for me, my tastebuds are much easier to satisfy, and I get along quite wonderfully with larger quantity purchases from Mt Baker Vapor, Killer Juice, both of which are $5-7 / 30ml, and will venture into DIY soon too

To each their own, in a world of 1,000's of options*

* Options that are under attack by the WHO and proposed FDA regulations!!!!!

Join CASAA TODAY and contact your local media & politicians NOW!!! BE HEARD!
​

Amen!!
I hate seeing people complain about the price of something; especially in an industry like this where it is the pure market. Prices are determined by those paying for the product. As soon as the Feds get involved the cheaper juices prices will go up while the expensive comes down and it'll all taste like my baker- which I personally can't stand. Unfortunately I have expensive taste buds, hence the DIY, I can't afford strictly premium juice but instead of complaining about it I did something about it and taught myself how to make some pretty decent juice.

 

[Zanaspus]

For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation will suffice.

 

[Myk]

Price gouging
price gouging

noun
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

Again, nearly every other retail good gets 100% markup. Maybe 200% or 300% for fashions and perishable items. But 1000%, in extreme cases 2000% (and that's going by my retail DIY prices)???

I guess with the internet a definition for "alternative retailer" needs to be made. Congress obviously doesn't think the internet qualifies since they're trying to "level the playing field" by creating a tax that when you add in shipping and the bookwork of keeping track of 50 state taxes would severely put a dent in internet sales.

For you and everyone else who wants to cherry pick a definition like you were an ANTZ cherry picking studies, like I said above, if I said, "people are getting robbed" you wouldn't jump to the legal definition of "robbed", rather a colloquial definition.
Going by every other retail good $1/ml is price gouging, 55¢/ml is extremely questionable.

Who suggested that? By all means, tell the world that you can DIY for 5 cents/ml. But understand that many people simply don't wish to be bothered mixing their own juice, just as many don't wish to be bothered rebuilding atomizers. (Personally I'm in the former camp, but not the latter).

The other thing you should do is to start your own juice company and sell your juice at whatever you believe is a fair price. There are almost no barriers to entry in that business right now. If your product is good and existing vendors are indeed price gouging, the world will beat a path to your doorstep and you'll be making a darn good living in short order. So instead of complaining that others are gouging, start mixing and selling at whatever price you think constitutes a fair markup.

At least you didn't say to open a liquid business and price gouge to get rich quick like others have suggested.
I've got my own business that I'm trained in, one that doesn't have the FDA threatening to shut it down with red tape.
My hat goes off to those who are willing to risk their money opening an ecig business right now.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Again, nearly every other retail good gets 100% markup. Maybe 200% or 300% for fashions and perishable items. But 1000%, in extreme cases 2000% (and that's going by my retail DIY prices)???

I guess with the internet a definition for "alternative retailer" needs to be made. Congress obviously doesn't think the internet qualifies since they're trying to "level the playing field" by creating a tax that when you add in shipping and the bookwork of keeping track of 50 state taxes would severely put a dent in internet sales.

For you and everyone else who wants to cherry pick a definition like you were an ANTZ cherry picking studies, like I said above, if I said, "people are getting robbed" you wouldn't jump to the legal definition of "robbed", rather a colloquial definition.
Going by every other retail good $1/ml is price gouging, 55¢/ml is extremely questionable.





At least you didn't say to open a liquid business and price gouge to get rich quick like others have suggested.
I've got my own business that I'm trained in, one that doesn't have the FDA threatening to shut it down with red tape.
My hat goes off to those who are willing to risk their money opening an ecig business right now.

So what would you suggest be done to solve the problem that you perceive?

 

[Tangaroav]

Exactly 100% spot-on!

Here's my take on Price gouging - when a seller raises prices due to real or artificial supply shortages, or anticipated demand spikes. Typically found on goods & services that are not discretionary / optional, to the consumer, i.e., gasoline, milk, bread, natural gas, propane, etc.

Examples:

• Someone in the Middle East stubs their toes, thus U.S. gasoline supplies are hysterically deemed to be "endangered". Every gasoline wholesaler raises their prices.
• Large storm is forecast: plywood and 'staple' foods, bottled water, etc prices increase
• Holidays - gasoline prices increase due to expected spike in demand
• After a storm - roofers command exorbitant prices due to increased demand for their specialized service

Notice that each example is of products or services that are basic needs, or specific to the 'moment'. The key here is that supply is constrained, and options / alternatives are limited.

The consumer has few choices

So Rossum has it 100% correct - there are 100's or more options for us as consumers to choose from, from DIY to any of the many many vendors out there who have lower pricing schedules.

Anyone who pays the kind of prices I see quoted throughout these conversations about 'premium' juices and the whining that goes with it... it was YOU who decided that product was worth the price, and pulled out your $$.

You choose to pay that price in lieu of the many alternatives & options available to you

That's the open, and free-market doing what it does best, providing the maximum and optimal utilization of the resources available in the economy / marketplace. People creating products that others value & enter into a free exchange of goods & money.

Personally, I see prices like those and think good for you! Obviously the product is deemed to be worth the price to a sufficient number of consumers that the company continues to produce it, and everyone walks away from that transaction as a winner

Luckily for me, my tastebuds are much easier to satisfy, and I get along quite wonderfully with larger quantity purchases from Mt Baker Vapor, Killer Juice, both of which are $5-7 / 30ml, and will venture into DIY soon too

To each their own, in a world of 1,000's of options*

* Options that are under attack by the WHO and proposed FDA regulations!!!!!

Join CASAA TODAY and contact your local media & politicians NOW!!! BE HEARD!
​

Obviously I need to clarify my use of the word gouging for those who did not understand what was meant in the context used:

I used it figuratively as it is very commonly used in popular language : '' Figurative use of language is the use of words or phrases in a manner where the literal meaning of the words is not true or does not make sense, but "implies a non-literal meaning which does make sense or that could be true".

I agree that the customer is king and if the offering fits his needs, taste and wallet, ( figuratively as not many wallets can fit in 30ml of e-liquid) , then great for everyone involved.

 

[GMayberry]

This is another one of those topics that has been beaten beyond belief.

I wrap my own coils on drippers. Will I still buy a pack of atomizers? Yes. Why? Because my little Ego is a great pocket carry and the trouble of wrapping those isn't worth saving $6.25 for a 5-pack from the local B&M.

I make my own juice. Will I still spend $22 on a 30ml bottle of Mothers Milk? Yes. Why? Because it is good and I like it. Can I make it cheaper? Sure. Will it be the same? I haven't nailed it exactly with a clone recipe yet, but I have gotten close. Pip made a good recipe, and I will still support her by buying her juice from time to time because I like it.

If you want to save money, DIY. If you find one you like, support the one who made it. Coming up with a good complex and consistant recipe is not as easy as one may think.

 

[Tangaroav]

....... For you and everyone else who wants to cherry pick a definition like you were an ANTZ cherry picking studies, like I said above, if I said, "people are getting robbed" you wouldn't jump to the legal definition of "robbed", rather a colloquial definition........

At least you didn't say to open a liquid business and price gouge to get rich quick like others have suggested.......

I totaly agree, those types of statements are easier to make than to contribute, for or against, the subject matter.

 

[GMayberry]

I totaly agree, those types of statements are easier to make than to contribute, for or against, the subject matter.

I have to ask, as previously asked in this thread but never answered, how much did that BMW cost you? It is a beautiful bike, I have ridden a few myself and they ride wonderfully! I personally am a Honda rider (sportbike right now). You know that you could have built that bike alot cheaper than what BMW charged you for it, right? Why would you let them mark it up so much for you to buy? Do you see where this is going?

 

[Tangaroav]

Actually and sadly this beautiful BMW model has been out of their lineups since a few years. To dream of reproducing it in a DIY manner would probably cost me in the 6 figure range and is practicaly impossible.

Presently I ride a Triumph speed tripe and a Honda VFR interceptor. Both those bikes, although sportier, are in the same price range as the BMW RC1200.

For much more expensive bikes, like the Honda Gold wing or some Harley models like the Electra Glide or Ducati's Diavel Strada, they cost much more to manufacture, assemble and equip and their selling price reflect this. The motorcycle industry is a mature one and a manufacturer must offer value for money or disappear. I don't know of any over inflated profits for motorcycle, quite the opposite in fact.

Although this exemple did not really fit in this conversation, it is a great contribution to it ! Thanks for letting me talk about one of the passions that we share .... and probably more if we include the beautiful Blue Ridge scenic road which is probably close to you.

 

[GMayberry]

Although this exemple did not really fit in this conversation, it is a great contribution to it ! Thanks for letting me talk one our passions that we share

I think it does fit quite nicely. You are asking why someone charges a high price for something you could make on your own much cheaper. Right? Or did I misread your OP? Be it e-juice, bikes, furniture, clothing, hot rods, etc etc etc., you will always pay an inflated price for it being made by someone else. A DIY approach to many things exists. Some don't have the know-how, the ability, time, desire, or whatever and are willing to pay the extra. That is perfectly fine. If you have the ability to DIY your juice and save a bunch of money, great! But don't bash the producers of quality juice for making money. They don't do it for free.